ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by Nonstop-driver

My Creta Diesel AT is due for its second service. I plan to switch to synthetic oil in the future, but is it too soon to shift now?
Also if I do, do I need to flush the engine?

Modern engines are so well put together that you can go synthetic from day one.

No need to flush.

[aerohit]

Experiment continues from post #4775

This time i got Idemitsu 0w20 due to 3 reasons-
1) Winter is coming
2) Prevent sludge buildup - My driving is about 10km in the morning and evening each way to work and back home, not enough for oil to reach operating temp, 0w20 should help here
3) The oils that i tried previously preformed well during initial period only, good but not good enough, so finally settling for Honda recommended Idemitsu

I needed only 3L for Brio, but my supplier only had 3.5L, so I saved remaining 500ml in a bottle.

Unlike other oils that I had used that were near transparent, the colour of this oil is dark golden (see pic) - a strong indicator of molybdenum packed additive package (i hope so)

Too early to tell if it is helping the engine, it usually takes a few days for the additives to make an impact.

FYI, here is the spec sheet of this oil-
https://ilti.idemitsu.com/files/uplo...0-F-S-rev1.pdf

[vsrivatsa]

Based on some earlier discussions on this group - I insisted the Maruti Service station to change oil during the 5000 kms/2nd Service for my Petrol Ignis. Upon inspection of the bill I found that they had used the Castrol 5W-40 Synthetic Engine Oil.

Now, the manual clearly mentions 0W-20 as the recommended oil. I posed a question to Maruti folks as to why a different oil was used. One person called and said 0W-20 is recommended in colder regions such as north India and for Bangalore temperature 5W-40 is recommended. Is this true?

Can anyone clarify more on this?

[aerohit]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

Based on some earlier discussions on this group - I insisted the Maruti Service station to change oil during the 5000 kms/2nd Service for my Petrol Ignis. Upon inspection of the bill I found that they had used the Castrol 5W-40 Synthetic Engine Oil.

Now, the manual clearly mentions 0W-20 as the recommended oil. I posed a question to Maruti folks as to why a different oil was used. One person called and said 0W-20 is recommended in colder regions such as north India and for Bangalore temperature 5W-40 is recommended. Is this true?

Can anyone clarify more on this?

Does the manual say 5w40 anywhere? Does the manual say that 0w20 is only for north india? If not, then they put wrong oil.

Yes, 0w20 is better suitable for colder places, but that still doesnt mean it cannot be used in Bangalore. 0w20 will help reach operating temp quicker and will give you better fuel efficiency as it flows much better in an engine with tighter tolerances, which in turn means it cools and lubricates better.

The reason Japanese manufacturers recommend 0w20 these days is not just because of mileage, but also because their newer generation engines now have less mechanical tolerance.

My suggestion is just use this oil for few months and get it drained outside a little sooner. They should have at least given you 5w30 if not 0w20. I think they may be using 5w40 just because it suits their requirements to cover wide variety of Maruti cars.

I am not sure if fighting with them will help but you could check with Maruti get it replaced.

[vsrivatsa]

Originally Posted by aerohit

Does the manual say 5w40 anywhere? Does the manual say that 0w20 is only for north india? If not, then they put wrong oil.

Yes, 0w20 is better suitable for colder places, but that still doesnt mean it cannot be used in Bangalore. 0w20 will help reach operating temp quicker and will give you better fuel efficiency as it flows much better in an engine with tighter tolerances, which in turn means it cools and lubricates better.

The reason Japanese manufacturers recommend 0w20 these days is not just because of mileage, but also because their newer generation engines now have less mechanical tolerance.

My suggestion is just use this oil for few months and get it drained outside a little sooner. They should have at least given you 5w30 if not 0w20. I think they may be using 5w40 just because it suits their requirements to cover wide variety of Maruti cars.

I am not sure if fighting with them will help but you could check with Maruti get it replaced.

Thanks for the quick information The price of 0W-20 fully synthetic on Amazon.in for a 4L Can is about 7000/-. I have not checked locally but does that sound right? The 5W-30 seems more affordable. Is the 0W-20 worth the money?

The Service Engineer did admit that they have a barrel full of Castrol 5W-40 and that is what they use when anybody requests synthetic oil at their Service Center

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

Thanks for the quick information The price of 0W-20 fully synthetic on Amazon.in for a 4L Can is about 7000/-. I have not checked locally but does that sound right? The 5W-30 seems more affordable. Is the 0W-20 worth the money?

The Service Engineer did admit that they have a barrel full of Castrol 5W-40 and that is what they use when anybody requests synthetic oil at their Service Center

I am not sure if using a 5W 40 oil is good in the current generation Maruti engines which ask for 0W20. 5W40 will run thicker which isnt good for the engines as their tolerance limits is quite tight and that too yours is a new engine. Ask them to drain it out since they filled it by mistake and put in MGP fully synthetic 0W20 oil which just costs 1.5k for a 3.5L can. The oil is made by shell and that is the one which should be used in your car.

[aerohit]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

The Service Engineer did admit that they have a barrel full of Castrol 5W-40 and that is what they use when anybody requests synthetic oil at their Service Center

Great! That means they are using same 5w40 in both petrol and diesel vehicles
If not 5w20, then s 5w30 should be fine for ignis

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by aerohit

Great! That means they are using same 5w40 in both petrol and diesel vehicles
If not 5w20, then s 5w30 should be fine for ignis

By and large Diesels and Petrols are not happy with the same oils. Check and you find that oils highly rated for one are never the same for the other. Of course there are some gurus who are quite happy using Diesel oils in Petrol vehicles.

[aerohit]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

By and large Diesels and Petrols are not happy with the same oils. Check and you find that oils highly rated for one are never the same for the other. Of course there are some gurus who are quite happy using Diesel oils in Petrol vehicles.

I often see oils that are both D and P compatible. For example - http://www.s-oil7.com/eng/product/detail.jsp?pid=00146
I guess there must some compromise being made with oil like these

[Swapnil4585]

Originally Posted by R2D2

d) Air and oil filter - ONLY Denso. Trust me, Purolator and Bosch in India are cheaply built by comparison but cost less.

Thanks for the extensive guideline.

As I had mentioned earlier, I changed the oil but not the oil filter. I have ordered the part from Pune, and may receive it today. Shall get the oil filter changed tomorrow. Can you tell me where the M A F sensor in this car located? Would like to have it spray cleaned too.

Have a Bhopal trip scheduled later in the next week. Will observe the fuel economy then. I think changing the oil filter, cleaning M A F sensor should have a positive effect on the fuel economy. In the hunt for a nice dash-camera now.

[aerohit]

It depends where the filter is located, if it is on the top of the engine then you can change it, but if on botton then you can't as the oil will spill out.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Swapnil4585

As I had mentioned earlier, I changed the oil but not the oil filter. I have ordered the part from Pune, and may receive it today. Shall get the oil filter changed tomorrow. Can you tell me where the M A F sensor in this car located? Would like to have it spray cleaned too.

Have a Bhopal trip scheduled later in the next week. Will observe the fuel economy then. I think changing the oil filter, cleaning M A F sensor should have a positive effect on the fuel economy. In the hunt for a nice dash-camera now.

Is the idling off/rough? Please don't clean the MAF sensor unless its required. Clean it only if you are aware of how to perform this service and have the correct tools, spray etc. it's a pretty expensive part about Rs 8500 at Boodmo. It is better you take it to a FNG.

Anyway, it is the square black object on top of the air hose leading from the air filter box to the inlet manifold. This is what it looks like Toyota MAF sensor The sensor is nearly $82 in the US.

Since you ordered the Denso filter from Pune you should have purchased additional quantities of them so they'd suffice for future annual services. Hope you got them from a reliable source. Also, the filter contains about 150-200 ml of engine oil so carry extra for a top up after fitting the new one. Please ensure the filter is fitted and torqued correctly or the oil can leak.

[VKumar]

I have a query guys, we frequently come across engine oils with exactly same grade but one has 'diesel' suffix while the other doesn't.

One such example:
We have Shell Helix ultra in both 5W40 and 5W40 Diesel, what's exactly is the difference between the two and what will be the effect of we use either of them for same diesel engine?

[aerohit]

Originally Posted by VKumar

I have a query guys, we frequently come across engine oils with exactly same grade but one has 'diesel' suffix while the other doesn't.

One such example:
We have Shell Helix ultra in both 5W40 and 5W40 Diesel, what's exactly is the difference between the two and what will be the effect of we use either of them for same diesel engine?

I havnt seen two different types, even on amazon it is diesel/petrol compatible.

Diesel oils have different additive package - more detergent, less sulphur, and maybe other things. When you put this extra additive oil in petrol engine it can be bad as it can clean the rings and lead to loss of compression.

Now I dont know how some oils are both D/P compatible, maybe there is 50-50 balance to suit both P and D engines. In that case, I would prefer D oil specifically for D vehicle and P oil for P vehicle.

[Swapnil4585]

Originally Posted by R2D2

What oil were you using before the change? If it was 5W-30 then you will feel the difference when you shift to heavier oils.

As for the fuel economy, a change of 1-2 kmpl seems a bit high.

Well, now after changing the oil filter and doing a long trip, the fuel economy seems to have improved, even more than what it was before the oil change. I am satisfied with the product.