[jkrishnakj]

2oth Feb - the country was sleeping due to the strike ( what reason ? ). I told me wife that we should have a look at the Thar. Off we went to the Mahindra Showroom, and the Test drive Thar wasnt available. The XUV was and the sales person was eagerly ready to offer a TD. (20 K on the ODO )

I drive a Safari, GX and have been driving a safari for the past 4 years. The simple points below are my personal views. ( not trying to open up a Safari vs XUV debate here)

1. Handling - Quite simple and superb. Steering felt very light and responsive, compared to my beast
2. NVH - Could get very less noise inside the cabin. Had switched off the music system and specifically was paying attention to this
3. Drivability - Though the TD lasted something less than 10 KM, it still covered 2 long flyovers. The speed was awesome, the pick up smooth. The "U" turn was a pleasure. Ofcoure, for me used to the turning radius of the beast, anything else will be a pleasure
4. Suspension - For all the discussions i have seen on this, i couldnt notice anything different. I felt quite OK.
5. Brakes - Yes, i did feel that you need more foot. But, something that i could get used to very quickly.
6. Body Roll - Felt a bit, couldn't distinguish between my Safari and this, having said that the XUV was heaps ahead when it comes to taking a turn with confidence
7. Interiors - Loved them
8. Gears - Very smooth (again, wrt the Safari experience)

After all this, the missus said that a few "acres" are missing on the back seat. And i could agree. Ofcourse, i do love my Safari every bit.

I have a few more months before my Safari lease gets over. I guess XUV it will be. . Lets see..

[spkingsley]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Even a 5% speedo error (especially to the higher side) can screw you during interceptor catches! I usually keep my car's speed very close to the limits - say 77+ kmph where speed limits are 80%, thinking I am well within the speed limits. But actually I might be doing 81 kmph.

How do the interceptor vehicles determine the speed? Do they also have a tolerance to manage the actual speedo errors?

PS:: I know the speed cameras (by the road side) in Oman has a 10% correction enabled - Now I understand why!

Regulations allow error only on the positive side. Error is allowed as vehicles still use the mechanical speedo drive/driven gear system. The output could be mechanical cable or electronic but the basic input is from mechanical gears.
Positive error means speedo indicated speed can be higher than the actual cars speed and hence one will never exceed the legal limits. Error on the negative side is not allowed.

[AGwagon]

Guys, I have just had my 30k service done, the one with no oil change. I have been however advised by friends that I should still get the engine oil changed to enhance the engine life and to make it more smooth. Any suggestions?

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by AGwagon

Guys, I have just had my 30k service done, the one with no oil change. I have been however advised by friends that I should still get the engine oil changed to enhance the engine life and to make it more smooth. Any suggestions?

Engine oil, for Indian conditions M-U-S-T be changed every 10000kms for optimum engine life and performance IMO.

[AGwagon]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Engine oil, for Indian conditions M-U-S-T be changed every 10000kms for optimum engine life and performance IMO.

which one to go for? any suggestions?

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by AGwagon

which one to go for? any suggestions?

I prefer the normal semi synth Maximile Feo oil recommended by Mahindra for Hariya and have been happy so far. I find the cost of the fully synthetic oil prohibitive.

OT: In fact, Hariya's oils have been changed yesterday.

[SDP]

Originally Posted by AGwagon

which one to go for? any suggestions?

I wouldn't recommend experimenting with the engine-oil make/grade while the vehicle is still in warranty. Mahindra recommends 6 ltrs of Mahindra Maxmile. I would stick with that for first 3 years. Might consider fully-synthetic after that.

[nitinralli]

Originally Posted by SDP

Mahindra recommends 6 ltrs of Mahindra Maxmile.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

I prefer the normal semi synth Maximile Feo oil recommended by Mahindra for Hariya

Whats the difference between the two? I too would like to get the engine oil change when my XUV covers 30K.

[Zappo]

Originally Posted by AGwagon

Guys, I have just had my 30k service done, the one with no oil change. I have been however advised by friends that I should still get the engine oil changed to enhance the engine life and to make it more smooth. Any suggestions?

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Engine oil, for Indian conditions M-U-S-T be changed every 10000kms for optimum engine life and performance IMO.

AFAIK, M&M uses a high grade engine oil (as per M&M, spec > API CH4). API CH4 which is also recommended for modern fleet trucks etc. I think if M&M suggests that you can do without a change they will know best. Also, most modern cars now come with a service center visit period given as 15000 kms. Needless to say manufacturers factor in the engine oil change period in these cars. Unless the car is operated under very harsh conditions I would say for most personal cars manufacturers published periods should hold good.

For any other oil that is at least API CH4 M&M says the change period should be 10000 kms.

Originally Posted by AGwagon

which one to go for? any suggestions?

Originally Posted by n.devdath

I prefer the normal semi synth Maximile Feo oil recommended by Mahindra for Hariya and have been happy so far. I find the cost of the fully synthetic oil prohibitive.

OT: In fact, Hariya's oils have been changed yesterday.

Mahindra suggests only Maximile Crown. This is a API CH4/SAE 15W40 + grade oil (I don't know or believe much about that + part though) and I would suggest you stick to this.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by SDP

... I would stick with that for first 3 years. Might consider fully-synthetic after that.

I read in this forum that if one wants to change to fully synthetic (from mineral / semi-synthetic) oil, then do it before the vehicle clocks a whole lot of kilometers. I personally think, change to synthetic oil should be done before 30K kms irrespective of warranty.

And I do NOT think M&M would void warranty for moving to fully synthetic oil, especially if the A$$ guys are kept informed.

Originally Posted by AGwagon

Guys, I have just had my 30k service done, the one with no oil change. I have been however advised by friends that I should still get the engine oil changed to enhance the engine life and to make it more smooth. Any suggestions?

What are the oil change intervals for XUV? Thought it's every 15K kms?! And yes, if your car doesn't spend much time in bumper to bumper traffic or too many really high speed drives, then stick to normal intervals. If you want to pamper your ride, go for shorter intervals. But then make sure you stick to one of the regular interval of your choice, always!

[debuda]

Originally Posted by AGwagon

Guys, I have just had my 30k service done, the one with no oil change. I have been however advised by friends that I should still get the engine oil changed to enhance the engine life and to make it more smooth. Any suggestions?

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Engine oil, for Indian conditions M-U-S-T be changed every 10000kms for optimum engine life and performance IMO.

Originally Posted by SDP

I wouldn't recommend experimenting with the engine-oil make/grade while the vehicle is still in warranty. Mahindra recommends 6 ltrs of Mahindra Maxmile. I would stick with that for first 3 years. Might consider fully-synthetic after that.

Originally Posted by Zappo

I think if M&M suggests that you can do without a change they will know best. Also, most modern cars now come with a service center visit period given as 15000 kms. Needless to say manufacturers factor in the engine oil change period in these cars. Unless the car is operated under very harsh conditions I would say for most personal cars manufacturers published periods should hold good.

I know several 'car lovers' who think that the frequency of engine oil change is directly proportional to their 'love' for their respective cars. But this has no technical basis.

Having worked for many decades on large marine diesel engines (both operation and major overhaul) I know a thing or two about engine oil. Modern engine oils have a much longer change interval as compared to oils that were used in the good old Landmasters and Fiats. This is because of giant strides not only in lubricant technology but also engine technology.

I fully agree with Zappo when he says that the manufacturer knows best. When M&M are offering a 3-year, unlimited mileage warranty on the XUV would they like the engines to be damaged due to an excessively long oil change interval? As a matter of fact, all engine manufacturers incorporate adequate safety margins in their maintenance schedule. For example, when the M&M recommended engine oil change interval for the XUV is 20,000 KM, it would be safe to assume that the oil would be good enough for about 30,000 KM!

Some car owners (especially those who have recently migrated from petrol to diesel) get very much alarmed when they see that their engine oil has turned black. The blackness of the oil has nothing to do with its lubricating ability. Diesel engine oil turns black sooner due to fine carbon particles suspended in it. Modern oil filters ensure that the amount of carbon suspended in the engine oil remains within permissible limits.

The standard oil change interval in large modern diesel engines (used for power generation or propulsion) is at least 1,000 hours. If an automobile engine is operated for 1,000 hrs it would be equivalent to the automobile clocking about 50,000 KM (assuming an average speed of 50 KMPH). And do not forget that diesel engines used for commercial applications are usually running at high loads.

IMHO, the main problem is this -- most of us (especially old timers like me) have a mindset that "engine oil should be changed every 3,000 to 5,000 KM to keep the engine healthy and smooth". This mindset is the result of our long association with Lambrettas, Jawas, Standard Heralds and Ambassadors. Technology has come a long way since. So we need to change our mindset.

Please note that the engine oil change interval in the XUV is 20,000 KM. Only the first and second oil change intervals are shorter (5,000 and 15,000 KM respectively).

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by Zappo

Mahindra suggests only Maximile Crown. This is a API CH4/SAE 15W40 + grade oil (I don't know or believe much about that + part though) and I would suggest you stick to this.

It "was" Maximile Crown which has now been replaced by Maximile Feo. You can see a picture of the same here which was replaced the day before yesterday at a Mahindra ASC.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

OT: The new Mahindra Maximile Feo is claimed to a synthetic engine oil requiring change at every 15k kms now. Is this correct?

Originally Posted by debuda

I know several 'car lovers' who think that the frequency of engine oil change is directly proportional to their 'love' for their respective cars. But this has no technical basis.

Not in my case.

Originally Posted by debuda

IMHO, the main problem is this -- most of us (especially old timers like me) have a mindset that "engine oil should be changed every 3,000 to 5,000 KM to keep the engine healthy and smooth". This mindset is the result of our long association with Lambrettas, Jawas, Standard Heralds and Ambassadors. Technology has come a long way since. So we need to change our mindset.

While 3-5k kms is certainly too short an interval, I would not carry on with my engine oil more than 10k kms in Indian conditions.
Reason:

While we take pride in the fact that today's technology is superior and advanced, we also need to take cognizance of the fact that manufacturers today stress on reducing the cost of ownership, significantly, by introducing newer technologies, lighter components, synthetic lubricants and the like.

While all these are steps in the right direction, not all of them actually succeed and the long term results can only be known after prolonged testing, which, IMO, is certainly not a strong point for the likes of M&M, going by the amount of niggles on the XUV and other vehicles.

Hence, I will stick to the 10k interval for the oil changes since 10k kms has been the standard interval for most cars, for Indian conditions, for more than a decade now.

To each, his own.

OT: Since both the XUV and the MHawk are essentially the same engine, shouldn't the oil change interval be the same for both?

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by debuda

I know several 'car lovers' who think that the frequency of engine oil change is directly proportional to their 'love' for their respective cars. But this has no technical basis.
...the manufacturer knows best.
...those who have recently migrated from petrol to diesel...
...most of us (especially old timers like me) have a mindset that "engine oil should be changed every 3,000 to 5,000 KM to keep the engine healthy and smooth".

There is enough scientific and technical basis for us to want to reduce oil change intervals below what is recommended by a manufacturer.

As a practical matter, we must consider a range for an oil change from around 2,000 miles to well over 15,000 miles. Most car makers generally recommend changing the oil for automobiles and light trucks burning gasoline once a year or every 7,500 miles, whichever occurs first. For diesel engines and turbocharged gasoline engines, the recommendation is typically a more accelerated 3,000 miles or six months.
Diesels tend to generate much more soot and acidic combustion blow-by in the crankcase. Turbochargers subject motor oils to high temperatures and are more prone to form engine deposits. A turbo can spin at speeds exceeding 100,000 rpm (about the same speed as a dentist’s drill). When an engine is shut off, the heat inside the turbo bearing housing builds from the high frictional heat and hot exhaust gases. The oil in contact with these hot bearing surfaces can crack, forming coke (hard carbon deposits) and hydrogen. This can lead to bearing damage.
If you read the fine print in your car owner’s manual, you will see that the 7,500-mile change interval is for vehicles driven under normal or ideal conditions. This is where the problem lies. What exactly are these ideal conditions and what are the consequences of not ideal with respect to motor oil condition and engine wear? What many perceive to be “normal” driving is actually “severe service” driving from the standpoint of the oil. For instance, the following are examples of severe service driving: frequent short trips (especially during cold weather), stop-and-go driving, driving in dusty conditions (gravel roads, etc.), and high-temperature conditions. Under such conditions, the general recommendation found in owner’s manuals is to change the oil every 3,000 miles or six months.
The real problem rests in the attempt to generalize. In reality, there are many unique conditions and factors that influence the decision. For illustration purposes, these conditions and influencing facts can be categorized in two ways as shown in the lists below:
1. Factors and Conditions That “Shorten” the Oil Change Interval:

• Short-trip Driving - The problem is most pronounced for frequent trips under five miles in cold wintertime conditions. Water and fuel have a tendency to accumulate in the crankcase when the oil temperature doesn’t reach the thermostat setting.
• Road Dust - Driving in dusty conditions (dirt/gravel roads) with an economy-grade oil filter can turn your motor oil into more of a honing compound than a lubricating medium. The dirty oil generates more wear metals which increase the risk of sludge formation and corrosion from acids.
• High-Mileage Engine - Engines with more than 75,000 miles generate more blow-by gases, unburnt fuel and corrosive agents that enter the crankcase oil.
• Diesel Engines - Diesels produce more soot and acidic blow-by products.
• Flex Fuels - Alcohol-gasoline blends are prone to accumulate water in the crankcase.
• Turbo-charged Engines - High temperatures distress the base oil and additives.
• High Oil Consumption - While on one hand high oil consumption replenishes additives, on the other hand the affliction is also associated with high blow-by of combustion gases into the crankcase.
• Hot Running Conditions - Hot running conditions, including desert terrain, in general can lead to premature oil oxidation, volatility problems and rapid additive depletion.
• Desire for Long Engine Life - Shorter drain intervals increases the safety margin in the event of premature oil failure.
• Towing/Heavy Loads - Generally relates to hot running conditions, thin oil films, higher shearing of viscosity index improvers and more wear metals in the oil. Wear metals catalytically shorten oil life, causing premature oxidation, sludge, acids and deposits.

Source

Originally Posted by debuda

...the engine oil change interval in the XUV is 20,000 KM. Only the first and second oil change intervals are shorter (5,000 and 15,000 KM respectively).

Why was such a recommendation put forward? It cannot be an arbitrary decision by M&M. Esp. since the same engine doing duty on Scorpios continues to have a 15k km interval oil change recommendation, the first change being at 5k km (5k, 20k, 35k, 50k...).

[ACM]

In the case of TATA for the Aria though they have an engine oil change interval of 15,000 kms I change at about 10,000 kms each time. The clearly mention in the Manual that the oil should be changed more frequently if the car is excessively driven in more dusty environment or in start stop traffic. Should be the same for the XUV.

For the Laura the earlier interval was 7,500 kms with Synthetic oil, they later have incresed it to 15,000 kms with semi Synthetic oil and later again gone back to 15,000 kms with Synthetic oil. For the Laura though I do not change the oil till the interval is due, typically need to top up 1-2 lts between service intervals.

Hope this info helps in the context of the XUV oil change intervals.

[debuda]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

While 3-5k kms is certainly too short an interval, I would not carry on with my engine oil more than 10k kms in Indian conditions.

Regarding 'Indian conditions', I'd like to make the following points :

1. It is not unreasonable to assume that Indian car manufacturers like the Tatas and Mahindras who have designed and developed cars primarily for the indigenous market have taken into account the 'Indian conditions' -- both from the climatic and driving habits points of view.
   
2. IMHO 'Indian conditions', at least from the climatic point of view, are more conducive to longer life of engine oils as compared to Western countries where engines are often started at sub-zero temperatures.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

There is enough scientific and technical basis for us to want to reduce oil change intervals below what is recommended by a manufacturer.

Are you trying to imply that the manufacturer's recommendation is devoid of 'scientific and technical basis'? Why on earth should it be so? Check out the following useful links :

1. Link 1
2. Link 2
3. Link 3