[windiesel]

Any indications when the AMT versions are expected? I thought they were supposed to launch them right from the word go.

[camero_driver]

Hello BHPans ... This would be my first post in this forum. Thanks to the admins for approving my membership. My requirements were for a compact car(Bangalore traffic) and petrol(not driving more than 1,000 kms per month). I had almost zeroed in on KUV100, when Tiago was released and the review from TBHP made me think again and decided to take a test drive. Initially only the petrol was available for test drive. I took the test drive and as mentioned in the official review... the engine sound and vibrations were a turn off..., and it became even more evident after i took a test drive of the diesel. Diesel seemed well refined engine when compared to petrol. Since diesel was not my need, i listened to my brain(heart said diesel) and booked the petrol xz on the 11th of April(silver) and changed the color to white on the 14th of April with a delivery date of within 1 month(concord motors, Mysore road, Bangalore). Then after about 10 days, I got a call from my SA that my car was ready and to immediately make the full payment. Since i had some travel plans during that month, i told him that i cannot take it and asked him to deliver another car during mid May. Now when i called him last week, he told me that the same car was available for immediate delivery. I was little surprised because in the show room, the wait time now listed for petrol is '2 months'. I asked for the VIN and it showed that the car was manufactured in Jan 2016 . I was bit furious and asked him why am i being offered an old manufactured car when their is huge demand, then i was not given a satisfactory answer. Hence my questions to the experts.

1. Even though i do not need a diesel, given that the diesel engine is so well refined when compared to petrol, should i go for it assuming a trouble free experience.
2. Am i right in rejecting the January 2016 manufactured car when i have the option to get April/May manufactured ones?
3. I have read in one of the comments in this review that Tata could have taken the feedback on noisy petrol engine and could be working on it. Anyone of you aware of the correctness of this information and should i wait for this update?

Thanks.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by camero_driver

....
1. Even though i do not need a diesel, given that the diesel engine is so well refined when compared to petrol, should i go for it assuming a trouble free experience.
2. Am i right in rejecting the January 2016 manufactured car when i have the option to get April/May manufactured ones?
3. I have read in one of the comments in this review that Tata could have taken the feedback on noisy petrol engine and could be working on it. Anyone of you aware of the correctness of this information and should i wait for this update?....

What issue do you think can crop up on the petrol? You'll be paying a premium for diesel + additional maintenance cost, think whether you really need a diesel.

It's OK to reject a 5 month old car though it wouldn't be bad. Use the opportunity to wring some discounts as the car is not moving quickly off the floors. Or even better, if you can get a recent model, for your own satisfaction.

An update for the NVH issues may not be as simple to release in a couple of months, I'd expect a significant change probably in the facelift in a couple of years at the max. I never read of anything under development, so its a hit or miss.

[simplyself]

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

Zest was DEFINITELY better than Vista and Manza days. But, Tiago is at a different level. Tiago is this close to Hyundai levels.

Infact - check out the Zest thread - talks of a facelift clearly state that the interior quality will improve to the level of Tiago.

Good to see Tata have come off the age with Tiago.

I have spent a few minutes in a stationary Tiago. I didn't have time to notice the quality levels of the interiors but they do look very appealing . Practicality is good, especially the storage spaces, which was an irritant in Zest. Tata might have listened to the feedback. Also, Tiago dash is a fresh design whereas that of Zest is an improvisation of that of Mana.

However, quality wise, I do find the Zest dash or plastics good. I should know, after nearly 40,000 km. However, what I noticed is, the seating is on a bit lower side in Tiago.

Apart from interiors, if Tiago rides and handles as well as Zest does - which it should - then it could very well be a product which should make Tata competitive again.

Zest made people look at Tata but perceptions change slowly and that is reflected in its sales numbers of around 2,000 units per month where as the competition sells much more.

Hope Tata marketing gets it right for Tiago, as there are several launches - Kite sedan, Hexa Become - to follow.

[T-Bone]

Originally Posted by camero_driver

Hello BHPans ... This would be my first post in this forum. Thanks to the admins for approving my membership. My requirements were for a compact car(Bangalore traffic) and petrol(not driving more than 1,000 kms per month). I had almost zeroed in on KUV100, when Tiago was released and the review from TBHP made me think again and decided to take a test drive. Initially only the petrol was available for test drive. I took the test drive and as mentioned in the official review... the engine sound and vibrations were a turn off..., and it became even more evident after i took a test drive of the diesel. Diesel seemed well refined engine when compared to petrol. Since diesel was not my need, i listened to my brain(heart said diesel) and booked the petrol xz on the 11th of April(silver) and changed the color to white on the 14th of April with a delivery date of within 1 month(concord motors, Mysore road, Bangalore). Then after about 10 days, I got a call from my SA that my car was ready and to immediately make the full payment. Since i had some travel plans during that month, i told him that i cannot take it and asked him to deliver another car during mid May. Now when i called him last week, he told me that the same car was available for immediate delivery. I was little surprised because in the show room, the wait time now listed for petrol is '2 months'. I asked for the VIN and it showed that the car was manufactured in Jan 2016 . I was bit furious and asked him why am i being offered an old manufactured car when their is huge demand, then i was not given a satisfactory answer. Hence my questions to the experts.

1. Even though i do not need a diesel, given that the diesel engine is so well refined when compared to petrol, should i go for it assuming a trouble free experience.
2. Am i right in rejecting the January 2016 manufactured car when i have the option to get April/May manufactured ones?
3. I have read in one of the comments in this review that Tata could have taken the feedback on noisy petrol engine and could be working on it. Anyone of you aware of the correctness of this information and should i wait for this update?

Thanks.

Dear camero_driver,

Why don't you post your concern on their twitter handle ?

I have seen responses to my postings from them.

@tiagotatamotors
@BosePratap
@MayankPareek_
@MinariShah

Hope they can help you out of your situation.

Best Regards,
T-Bone

[engine_charan]

I am planning to buy a car for my wife. So, first we started with Tana Nano and Kwid and wife rejected both. Then we saw Tata Tiago, wife liked it very much and she wanted to buy Red Color Tata Tiago. We went for a test drive and below are impressions

Positives
1) Interiors are very elegant for Tata and they are lot better than Celerio.
2) Drive quality is Amazing and it easily swallows potholes and has very good road grip.
3) Practicality of the cabin is very good like cubbyholes and if we remove the Tata badge, no one can say it is a Tata car.

Negatives
1) Steering vibration, as soon as you start the car you can feel steering vibration and engine noise which is very irritation and is turn off. If I was buying this car for myself, this is enough for me to cancel the thought of buying this car
2) 3 pot engine is not as refined as say a Wagon-R or a Celrio.

Overall, if you are planning to buy a Renault Kwid or Maruti Alto K10, this is a better option.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by camero_driver

1. Even though i do not need a diesel, given that the diesel engine is so well refined when compared to petrol, should i go for it assuming a trouble free experience.

I'd recommend that you test drive both of them back-to-back in the conditions (e.g. A/C is turned on, in-city driving) that you would drive the car most often. Team-bhp reviews, opinions of other forum members (including mine), are inherently personal. The reviews are very useful in isolating areas of concern/shortcomings, and then it's up to the individual to try it out and see if those shortcomings are worth it or not.

For example, the difference in ex-showroom prices in Bangalore for the petrol and diesel variants (₹ 489,019 and ₹ 569,409 respectively) works out to be approximately ₹ 80,000. That roughly equates to a free petrol voucher for 20,000 kilometers (15kmpl @ ₹60 a litre). Where does refinement/power characteristics fall in your list of priorities? Does it supersede the price difference?

In short, this is your decision to make, trust yourself and your instinct when you take the car out for a longer spin; again, under the kind of conditions you would tend to drive most often.

Originally Posted by camero_driver

2. Am i right in rejecting the January 2016 manufactured car when i have the option to get April/May manufactured ones?

There is hardly going to be any difference in the Jan. 2016 to April/May batch.
If you truly want a real-world production tested version, you should wait for at least 6-months of continuous production. In some ways, I expect the Jan. 2016 models to have gone through more manual Q/C at the factory, than the April/May batch.

Buying a car from the initial production batches is not a particularly good idea. I include the April/May manufactured ones in that bracket too. If you think about it, most car companies are assembly operations. By that I imply that they rely massively on suppliers ramping up along with the main factory that stamps the car's panels. Introductory pricing is a great way to get customers to test out a product (and production lines) at scale (in the real world). The bet companies make is that only minor gremlins will show up and that the customers of the initial batches will be okay with that because they paid a slightly lower up-front price, along with getting access to a new product before it becomes too common.

Originally Posted by camero_driver

3. I have read in one of the comments in this review that Tata could have taken the feedback on noisy petrol engine and could be working on it. Anyone of you aware of the correctness of this information and should i wait for this update?

There are not too many major changes that can be made to the powertrain on short notice. There're no magical solutions, and the best one can hope for in the short term are things like better insulation and some changes to the engine mounts (this too is highly unlikely).

Finally, just test-drive the car and see if the petrol in its current guise feels okay for your purposes. If it does, just go for it .

[camero_driver]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

What issue do you think can crop up on the petrol? You'll be paying a premium for diesel + additional maintenance cost, think whether you really need a diesel.

The only thing i worry about is that vibration being transferred to other body parts resulting in rattling sound..which i would really hate...

Originally Posted by T-Bone

Dear camero_driver,

Why don't you post your concern on their twitter handle ?

I have seen responses to my postings from them.

@tiagotatamotors
@BosePratap
@MayankPareek_
@MinariShah

Hope they can help you out of your situation.

Thanks T-Bone .. this is very useful information and i have noted this down. For now I am in touch with a QA from Tata who had reached out to my immediately after my booking. She has asked me to send across an email requesting for a latest manufactured car and she will come back to me with the new dates for the car in two to three days. I will give her some time before i escalate this.

Originally Posted by Amartya

I'd recommend that you test drive both of them back-to-back in the conditions (e.g. A/C is turned on, in-city driving) that you would drive the car most often. Team-bhp reviews, opinions of other forum members (including mine), are inherently personal. The reviews are very useful in isolating areas of concern/shortcomings, and then it's up to the individual to try it out and see if those shortcomings are worth it or not.

I did the above, though not with the different conditions you mentioned, petrol is not bad, but again, not too close to diesel either. Diesel felt definitely good with that additional torque.

Originally Posted by Amartya

For example, the difference in ex-showroom prices in Bangalore for the petrol and diesel variants (₹ 489,019 and ₹ 569,409 respectively) works out to be approximately ₹ 80,000. That roughly equates to a free petrol voucher for 20,000 kilometers (15kmpl @ ₹60 a litre). Where does refinement/power characteristics fall in your list of priorities? Does it supersede the price difference?

The above, in fact was the deciding factor. Our need was a compact car which can taken for the usual city drives. Going further, as the family expands, the plan is to buy an SUV with the space and power. Due to these requirements, the petrol Taigo suited well for us.

Originally Posted by Amartya

There is hardly going to be any difference in the Jan. 2016 to April/May batch.
If you truly want a real-world production tested version, you should wait for at least 6-months of continuous production. In some ways, I expect the Jan. 2016 models to have gone through more manual Q/C at the factory, than the April/May batch.

Can you elaborate on the Manual Q/C? I do believe that the later batch(april/may) may have some best practices of Q/C incorporated from the issues faced in the Jan Batch cars.

Originally Posted by Amartya

Buying a car from the initial production batches is not a particularly good idea. I include the April/May manufactured ones in that bracket too. If you think about it, most car companies are assembly operations. By that I imply that they rely massively on suppliers ramping up along with the main factory that stamps the car's panels. Introductory pricing is a great way to get customers to test out a product (and production lines) at scale (in the real world). The bet companies make is that only minor gremlins will show up and that the customers of the initial batches will be okay with that because they paid a slightly lower up-front price, along with getting access to a new product before it becomes too common.

I do believe that the above holds good for all Indian manufactured cars. But since i need the car urgently, i cannot wait for 6 months or 1 year to allow the manufacturer to fix all the initial niggles and issues. At the same time, i do not want to act as a Q/C engineer to Tata ...

Originally Posted by Amartya

There are not too many major changes that can be made to the powertrain on short notice. There're no magical solutions, and the best one can hope for in the short term are things like better insulation and some changes to the engine mounts (this too is highly unlikely).

Finally, just test-drive the car and see if the petrol in its current guise feels okay for your purposes. If it does, just go for it .

.. Since we are looking at this car for short city drives, i think petrol suits well for our requirements..

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by T-Bone

Dear camero_driver,

Why don't you post your concern on their twitter handle ?

I have seen responses to my postings from them.

@tiagotatamotors
@BosePratap
@MayankPareek_
@MinariShah...

I suggest to take one step at a time. Please do follow the hierarchy & add people only if the previous instance doesn't yield results. Adding a whole lot of people doesn't give a feel good factor.

Pratap Bose is the designer in TATA, not too sure why would anyone copy the poor guy for pre-sales / sales / service / dealer issues! Just because these guys are on social media or they respond to some, lets not bug them & then raise the hopes they'll resolve every problem surrounding TATA motors.

[camero_driver]

swiftnfurious - I completely agree with you on this. Adhering to the hierarchy, I am at the second level of escalation who are the Customer Support team for addressing Customer issues. I am getting good response from this team for now. The say that TATA is taking customers feedback very seriously and hence allocations are directly foreseen by them. They want to me email them saying i need a latest manufactured car, and this email would be used to ask TATA to de-allocate the current car and open my booking for another allotment of recently manufactured car. Have sent an email yesterday, hoping to know more in the coming two to three days..

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by Amartya

For example, the difference in ex-showroom prices in Bangalore for the petrol and diesel variants (₹ 489,019 and ₹ 569,409 respectively) works out to be approximately ₹ 80,000. That roughly equates to a free petrol voucher for 20,000 kilometers (15kmpl @ ₹60 a litre). Where does refinement/power characteristics fall in your list of priorities? Does it supersede the price difference?

While I agree on the free petrol voucher thought, we also have to think the recovery that a diesel vehicle makes during resale. I think it recovers almost the whole initial premium paid for the car. Now doubt, diesels have a higher maintenance costs and then, there is the time value of money too. If we take all this into consideration, the difference between petrol and diesel is not much for most car models.

On a different note, I have been seeing one Tiago every day for the last 3 days. One orange XM, one sky blue and one urban titanium XZ (I don't know what TaMo calls these colors). The paint quality is top notch and the cars just dazzle on the road. The view while moving on the road gives the feeling of car built better than a new i10 or even a new Figo. Hopefully this car will bring a change to the fortunes of its manufacturer.

[X_T_A Rose]

Originally Posted by ashis89

On a different note, I have been seeing one Tiago every day for the last 3 days. One orange XM, one sky blue and one urban titanium XZ (I don't know what TaMo calls these colors). The paint quality is top notch and the cars just dazzle on the road.

The Urban Titanium of Honda is called Espresso Brown by Tata Motors
Been seeing a lot of them on road now. Even the Berry Red has made its appearance in showrooms now. The Paint Quality on Tiago is exceptional.

Pics Source: TheAutomotiveIndia.com

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by camero_driver

1. Even though i do not need a diesel, given that the diesel engine is so well refined when compared to petrol, should i go for it assuming a trouble free experience.
2. Am i right in rejecting the January 2016 manufactured car when i have the option to get April/May manufactured ones?
3. I have read in one of the comments in this review that Tata could have taken the feedback on noisy petrol engine and could be working on it. Anyone of you aware of the correctness of this information and should i wait for this update?

1. It's the more recommended one out of the two, so if I was in your place, I would definitely consider it.

2. Definitely. When you have the option of getting a newly manufactured car, why would you go for old stock? I suggest getting a brand new one. There's another reason for that, which I will be getting to in #3.

3. This, I can confirm from my Tata birdies.

The initial batch of petrol "Zica" cars which were made available to media drives received negative feedback regarding engine NVH levels. Being a 3-pot variation of it's 4-pot elder sibling, vibrations are a given, but the first batch were unusually harsh, vibrating badly, and caused ruckus similar to diesels! Tata did some tweaking to the petrol engines and offered them again to the media in it's Tiago avatar and again asked for feedback. The NVH levels, although slightly suppressed, were still pretty much present.

Before starting mass production, the Tiago petrols underwent more tweaking (some work on the injectors + gear ratios), and I am told that later batches (April 2016 onwards) have better refined petrol Tiagos coming out of the Tata factory. At idling on a standstill, the vibrations and noise are pretty much present. Upon revving or driving beyond 20 kmph, the engine settles down to a much smoother tune and the vibrations are minimised to a great extent.

Any new owner of a petrol Tiago, who has picked up an April/May manufactured car, can confirm this.

[sairamboko]

Has anyone in Tbhp taken a delivery of Tiago petrol ? Need to know how it performs in real world and other experiences.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by camero_driver

Can you elaborate on the Manual Q/C? I do believe that the later batch(april/may) may have some best practices of Q/C incorporated from the issues faced in the Jan Batch cars.

Apologies, as I re-read my own answer, I would have been unclear about the "manual" part too. But, basically for the initial production runs, there are more rigorous manual checks than automated tests, just to make sure that things are okay. For example, automated tests include using laser gauges both handheld (Link) and on the assembly line that ensure body panel alignment/panel gaps are within factory tolerances, same with dyno runs etc. These automated tests mostly remain the same/are standard for the industry.
However, I know that purchasing/QC staff pay extra attention (i.e. visual inspections) to parts coming in from vendors in the initial lots. A lot more parts are rejected and sent back to the OEM for them to work out the kinks in their production lines.

Originally Posted by camero_driver

.. Since we are looking at this car for short city drives, i think petrol suits well for our requirements..

Sounds about right .

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

3. This, I can confirm from my Tata birdies.
Before starting mass production, the Tiago petrols underwent more tweaking (some work on the injectors + gear ratios), and I am told that later batches (April 2016 onwards) have better refined petrol Tiagos coming out of the Tata factory.

Thanks for the tip. In that case I'll probably recommend getting one from a newer batch as well. That being said, I am a little skeptical of the gear ratio changes. That is a major engineering change and would probably have warranted more testing (come to think of it, wouldn't that require ARAI re-certification for fuel economy figures as well?).