[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by vik99

The Tiago JTP was featured in Autocar's Track Day. It's lap time was just below the Baleno RS and Octavia vRS, better than Polo GT TSI. I have attached the extract and photos.

Wow those are respectable numbers. Baleno of course has a huge advantage of much lower kerb weight. Putting the lean Narain Karthikeyan behind the wheel doesn't offset that completely .

Beating the PGT TSI is the real highlight. I'm sure thats purely down to the suspension tuning & grip levels of the tyres with that suspension tuning. If only Tata could actually advertise these things in the right way! The JTPs are simply not promoted. Somehow a key ingredient missing in Tata's staff (almost all of it!) is lack of belief. They need to be made to genuinely believe that their products are top class and a match to anyone out there. Passionate staff at the showrooms is what will change the things around. Especially in case of the JTPs. For Gods's sake - don't sell these cars through the same sales advisers that sell Bolt & Zest to fleet operators. They are a big turn off in 2 minutes of conversation. Have experienced that personally when I went looking for a Tigor JTP for myself...

[VWAllstar]

Originally Posted by Mi10

Which Figo Sports your talking about ? Petrol or Diesel ?
If it is Diesel, then the below statement doesn't hold its place here!

...And if it is Petrol, then this entire argument becomes invalid !

I see what you did here, good one. However, apart from the Figo, Abarth and Polo GT TSI are only turbo petrol engines.

Originally Posted by Mi10

Yeah maybe ! But if a internationally acclaimed Motorsport driver calls it "Quick for its Price"

The entire discussion is on the same line. Tiago JTP is quick for it's price. But there are true hot hatches which one can have with an additional investment of 3 lakhs (Huge difference hence Tiago JTP is appreciated, liked and will be revered for time to come)

Originally Posted by Mi10

and if this dingy little cockroach in his hands manages a whole 1 min over the famed GT TSI on a proper race track, then its bit hard to swallow few aspects of the above!

This is highly debatable and questionable. Good for people who believe in this and with others who feel it cannot be true. Few seconds, was still believable but JTP being a 'whole' 1 min over the famed GT TSI is harder to swallow.

"The Baleno is the quickest, completing this run in 9.7s. The Polo does this is 10.2s. JT Special Vehicles claims the JTP cars finish this run in 10s" - Overdrive

"The Tiago JTP is also the cheapest sub-10 second 0-100 km/hr car you can buy today (Tata claims it'll do the dash in 9.95 secs)" Team BHP Review

"Due to the DSG's well-chosen ratios, there is always enough power & torque available for most driving conditions. 0-100 should be in the 10 second range, while top speed is rated at ~190 kph" Team BHP Review

"0-100 km/hr comes up in 9.95 seconds for the Tiago JTP" Motorbeam

"While VW claims a 0-100 km/hr time of 9.7 seconds, the best we could record on our VBOX was 10.09 seconds" Motorbeam


JTP may be quicker by 1-3 seconds but there is no match to in gear acceleration of GT. In any standard kept conditions, JTP can never ever match the complete package GT TSI has to offer.

Originally Posted by Mi10

Curious to know what made you say this. I dont think its too old an engine (guess it debuted in Bolt - 2014) Still a lot younger than some Jurassic era engines plying in Honda's and Zuki's

We shall have an answer to this in the coming years. Hopefully I be wrong.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

JTP may be quicker by 1-3 seconds but there is no match to in gear acceleration of GT. In any standard kept conditions, JTP can never ever match the complete package GT TSI has to offer.

That indeed is a very key point. The reason why the GT TSI has better in gear acceleration is significantly owing to it's DCT DSG with gear pre-selection. The acceleration may be similar - the transmission loss is taken away. That is the key.

But then - a fellow with a learner's license can take a GT TSI and do a 10 sec run to 100. All he has to do is floor the pedal. Too much automatic. I'd pick a fidgety substandard manual gearbox over it simply for the joy of throwing the stick around. I'd smile to myself when I time my clutch engagement and gear-shift near perfection minimizing the transmission shift time-losses - every single time when i manage to do it is worth it! The "connection" with the machine that it gives can't be matched by an auto-box. Its like playing a game. PS4 is far cheaper than a GT TSI then. An enthusiast will surely enjoy taking 12 seconds for a 100 with manual gears rather than running an automatic in 8 seconds to 100.

But thats just my view of course.

[Mi10]

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

This is highly debatable and questionable. Good for people who believe in this and with others who feel it cannot be true. Few seconds, was still believable but JTP being a 'whole' 1 min over the famed GT TSI is harder to swallow.

What is hard to swallow here ? i just quoted what is published in the mag !

Buddy i did not quote or make it up ! I was referencing the track lap time of 2.15.xx managed by the JTP when compared to the 2.16.xx managed by GT TSI - As tested with Pro drivers for Autocar mag.

Quoting the reference post - you may want to check out the attachment in that post.

Originally Posted by vik99

The Tiago JTP was featured in Autocar's Track Day. It's lap time was just below the Baleno RS and Octavia vRS, better than Polo GT TSI. I have attached the extract and photos.

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

"The Baleno is the quickest, completing this run in 9.7s. The Polo does this is 10.2s. JT Special Vehicles claims the JTP cars finish this run in 10s" - Overdrive

"The Tiago JTP is also the cheapest sub-10 second 0-100 km/hr car you can buy today (Tata claims it'll do the dash in 9.95 secs)" Team BHP Review

"Due to the DSG's well-chosen ratios, there is always enough power & torque available for most driving conditions. 0-100 should be in the 10 second range, while top speed is rated at ~190 kph" Team BHP Review

"0-100 km/hr comes up in 9.95 seconds for the Tiago JTP" Motorbeam

"While VW claims a 0-100 km/hr time of 9.7 seconds, the best we could record on our VBOX was 10.09 seconds" Motorbeam



JTP may be quicker by 1-3 seconds but there is no match to in gear acceleration of GT. In any standard kept conditions, JTP can never ever match the complete package GT TSI has to offer.

I never said it is a 0-100 time ! Whether you put in Baleno RS or Figo S Diesel or Abarth Punto or Polo TSI - There is simple no car today that can do what the JTP does for its price !

Now that doesnt mean the others are hot hatches (save Abarth)- They are not. All of the other 3 compromise big time on various other aspects.

[Turrrb0]

Originally Posted by shaheenazk

This car's torque band is between 2000-4000 rpm, so its pointless to rev it beyond 4000 rpm.

Although this may be so. But I can definitely feel the engine pull all the way to it's redline. Especially in 3rd gear the JTP is a hooligan.

Also what Mi10 mentioned about driving and adjusting to the car's gear ratios is absolutely spot on. This is something you can do after driving it for a longer duration and not during test drives or one off driving experiences.

[VWAllstar]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

That indeed is a very key point. The reason why the GT TSI has better in gear acceleration is significantly owing to it's DCT DSG with gear pre-selection. The acceleration may be similar - the transmission loss is taken away. That is the key.

There is no doubt the DSG helps and a configured technology has to be more consistent and precise than a manual intervention.

Originally Posted by Reinhard

I'd pick a fidgety substandard manual gearbox over it simply for the joy of throwing the stick around. The "connection" with the machine that it gives can't be matched by an auto-box
But thats just my view of course.

Again this is the same view of most of us. This is the reason why we take the GT TSI as a good commuter car whereas Polo GT TDI, Figo S TDCI, Abarth Punto and JTP Twins are more to our taste.

[pavi]

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

This is the reason why we take the GT TSI as a good commuter car whereas Polo GT TDI, Figo S TDCI, Abarth Punto and JTP Twins are more to our taste.

But I think the polo GT TDi is having a ‘commuter’ suspension when compared with other listed cars. Did anyone say ‘comfort’??? May be I heard it wrong

[VKumar]

Well, gentlemen; calm down. While there is so much brouhaha over nothing. I have one question for both of you.

Originally Posted by Mi10

whole 1 min over the famed GT TSI on a proper race track, then its bit hard to swallow few aspects of the above!

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

'whole' 1 min

Where this 'whole' 1 minute has come from? It is just one second guys. In 2013, Polo GT TSi took 2 min and 16.5 seconds, while the JTP took 2 min and 15.41 seconds in 2019. Where is the difference of one minute? Or am I missing something?

And if it is just '1' second, then it is absolutely normal. It is a tighter set manual transmission equipped lighter car, it should have done even better IMO.

Secondly, @VWAllstar:
I am unable to understand buddy that why are you so much concerned about the JTP and its performance? I have seen it, driven it and accepted the car. I don't own one (And yes, I have 1,37,000 kms ownership experience of Skoda 1.8 TSi), but I have high level of appreciation for the overall package and what money it comes for.

How can you even go ahead and call it any random modification or sounding like a tractor? It has the normal three cylinder thrum with a loud exhaust; and that's quite normal (My Polo 1.2 MPi sounds even worse under 2000 rpm) for what this car offers.

I will any day and every day choose a Tiago JTP over an Abarth or GT TSi; one is orphaned by the parents and one has a questionable reliability (And I hope you are aware of 60k and 120k kms service costs of Polo GT too); let's appreciate Tata for what they are offering among all the different brands offering the vanilla in different packets. Look at it the way it is, IT IS a Tata Tiago JTP - look at it for what it is, and you will see what an amazing product it actually it.

[VWAllstar]

Originally Posted by VKumar

Where this 'whole' 1 minute has come from? It is just one second guys. In 2013, Polo GT TSi took 2 min and 16.5 seconds, while the JTP took 2 min and 15.41 seconds in 2019. Where is the difference of one minute? Or am I missing something?

That is what even I said without giving out the numbers. Even to someone who has not read the article and knows about GT TSI and JTP wont be able to digest that JTP is 1 min quicker than the GT TSI.

Originally Posted by VKumar

And if it is just '1' second, then it is absolutely normal. It is a tighter set manual transmission equipped lighter car, it should have done even better IMO.

These are one off spins. No one buys a car to time them this way. IMHO overall Polo GT TSI is a better car than JTP, yes it is a segment higher and quite a few lakhs more expensive. This makes the JTP 'quicker for it's price' and there is no iota of a doubt in it.

Originally Posted by VKumar

Secondly, @VWAllstar:
I am unable to understand buddy that why are you so much concerned about the JTP and its performance?
How can you even go ahead and call it any random modification or sounding like a tractor?

I do not loath the JTP but it being tuned not by Tata Motors themselves, so there is and will always be an ambiguity on it's reliability. Sounding like a tractor was an exaggeration buddy and should be taken as a frivolous point.

Originally Posted by VKumar

I will any day and every day choose a Tiago JTP over an Abarth or GT TSi; one is orphaned by the parents and one has a questionable reliability (And I hope you are aware of 60k and 120k kms service costs of Polo GT too); let's appreciate Tata for what they are offering among all the different brands offering the vanilla in different packets. Look at it the way it is, IT IS a Tata Tiago JTP - look at it for what it is, and you will see what an amazing product it actually it.

Unfortunately true with Abarth, but VW has managed to do much better with the Polo GT TSI now. Hardly any news of a DSG going wrong in last few years, warranty for 7 years and good will warranty for those cars which are not covered. What more should a company do to change old perspectives?

Always appreciated Tata for bringing the JTP twins and at this price. No doubt why it is revered by many. Hope we get to see them getting better and the Indian market keep appreciating such rare efforts by putting their hard earned money on such cars.

[Mi10]

Originally Posted by VKumar

Well, gentlemen; calm down. While there is so much brouhaha over nothing. I have one question for both of you.

Where this 'whole' 1 minute has come from? It is just one second guys. In 2013, Polo GT TSi took 2 min and 16.5 seconds, while the JTP took 2 min and 15.41 seconds in 2019. Where is the difference of one minute? Or am I missing something?

Yes my bad ! Its 1 second.

My point is simple! Its is very rare in India for any manufacturer to give focused products. And for an Indian Mfg like Tata to step up and hear out the enthusiasts' and make a focused car for them at a impressive price point is a great achievement! While it has its share of flaws, it is surely not a dumb car by any means!

Pulling it down by comparing with a full segment above is something i find very sad about ! We all know how much focus VW, Suzuki or Honda give to Indians in general (Save for the sticker jobs and limited editions)

[shaheenazk]

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

"The Tiago JTP is also the cheapest sub-10 second 0-100 km/hr car you can buy today (Tata claims it'll do the dash in 9.95 secs)" Team BHP Review

"0-100 km/hr comes up in 9.95 seconds for the Tiago JTP" Motorbeam

I wonder why NK took more than 10 seconds to reach 100 kms (10.76 seconds) when the car is capable of doing it under 10 seconds. May be he has lost touch.

Originally Posted by Turrrb0

Although this may be so. But I can definitely feel the engine pull all the way to it's redline. Especially in 3rd gear the JTP is a hooligan.

Also what Mi10 mentioned about driving and adjusting to the car's gear ratios is absolutely spot on. This is something you can do after driving it for a longer duration and not during test drives or one off driving experiences.

If you could really feel the engine pulling away upto its redline then may be Tata has wrongly evaluated JTP's torque band. May be its. 2000-5800. And if it is so, then its a good thing. I hope Jayem corrects the flat spots in the power delivery by remapping, very soon. I strongly felt that when a few upgrades were introduced in the JTP twins recently, it should have ironed out the flat spots too.

[shaheenazk]

Originally Posted by motobliss

Some pics I took yesterday. Unable to edit my previous post, sorry.

Thanks for the pictures. They are lovely. Can you please post a picture of the underside of the bonnet also ? I heard that it is provided with insulation unlike Tiago JTP.

[Turrrb0]

Originally Posted by shaheenazk

I hope Jayem corrects the flat spots in the power delivery by remapping, very soon.

Completely agree! Though I've slowly adapted to work my way around this, a much neater map for fueling would be a welcome update.

Originally Posted by shaheenazk

Thanks for the pictures. They are lovely. Can you please post a picture of the underside of the bonnet also ? I heard that it is provided with insulation unlike Tiago JTP.

If I'm not wrong, the Tigor doesn't come with the insulation either.

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

I do not loath the JTP but it being tuned not by Tata Motors themselves, so there is and will always be an ambiguity on it's reliability.

Please read up a little about Jayem Automotive. They are quite big and are as good as a manufacturer themselves. The JTP twins are not some local mod job done by some tuner, in fact to me the best bits of the cars are what have been touched by Jayem.

Also another thing is these are technically not TATA cars, they're JTSV cars, even the RC card mentions the manufacturer as JT Special Vehicles and not TATA..

[VWAllstar]

Originally Posted by Turrrb0

vPlease read up a little about Jayem Automotive. They are quite big and are as good as a manufacturer themselves. The JTP twins are not some local mod job done by some tuner, in fact to me the best bits of the cars are what have been touched by Jayem.

Also another thing is these are technically not TATA cars, they're JTSV cars, even the RC card mentions the manufacturer as JT Special Vehicles and not TATA..

Completely agree to what you have said. Have read and followed Jayem for years now and trust them to have done a good job. With a good base product they have made it better. Hopefully there are many more such cars coming from JTSV.

[Astonite]

The Jtp twins comes with 2yr/75k kms warranty as the brochure. Do they have extended warranty packs and service packages for JTP cars? Wish they would launch the Grey color soon!