[Zappex]

Originally Posted by ACM

The two visuals seem to depict different sets of airbags. Of course am not sure of the technology that goes behind this stuff and how it works and where and in which direction exactly they deploy from/in and hope I never have to find this out either. The D-Pillar does not have an airbag and the visual to does not depict a deployment from the D Pillar

That is exactly what i was talking about! The side airbags do "NOT" stretch till the third row. The second picture in my earlier post shows the correct deployment of the Airbags. I think that this can be a mistake in printing the brochure, But as I said earlier the guy at the showroom was using this picture as a USP and telling me that in case of a side impact the third row is also covered.

Well, I hope Tata rectifies this somehow, And as for the sales guy; looks like he was just bluffing!

[ACM]

Zappex, you have not exactly got the gist of what I wrote / meant. Let me attempt to be a bit more specific.

As per my understanding (which could of course be incorrect) which is a bit different from yours.

1) The two visuals depict different airbags, and BOTH visuals are CORRECT. So TATA does not need to rectify the visuals nor clarify further.

2) The first one which shows three rows SIDE curtain airbags on the side. This is meant for head protection for all 3 rows.

2) The second one which is for side torsoe (mid body) protection is for first two rows. Since the weaker door element is present for the first two rows only this is critical for the first two rows mainly. The third row has a fixed panel.

3) TATA in the bit quoted by me in the Aria "Build your Dream Car" campaign has clearly mentioned that they have the side curtain airbags for all three rows.

4) The sales guy may not have been entirely aware but was not totally incorrect either. Since both Airbags are called Side Airbags as per wikipedia, and the side curtain airbags to save a lot of lives in case of side impact. Infact many cars do not have the side torsoe airbags at all but do have the side curtain airbags for 2 or 3 rows (3 in case of the Aria).

5) Some really premium cars do not carry the side curtain airbags till the third row though it is slowly becoming the norm. So in that sense it is good for TATA to have the third row side curtain Airbag in place.

From Wikipedia: Airbag

Side airbag


Side airbag inflated permanently for display purposes



A deployed curtain airbag in a Opel Vectra


There are essentially two types of side airbags commonly used today, the side torso airbag and the side curtain airbag.

Side torso airbag

Side-impact airbags or side torso airbags (side thorax/abdomen airbags) are a category of airbag usually located in the seat, and inflate between the seat occupant and the door. These airbags are designed to reduce the risk of injury to the pelvic and lower abdomen regions. Some vehicles are now being equipped with different types of designs, to help reduce injury and ejection from the vehicle in rollover crashes. More recent side airbag designs include a two chamber system; a firmer lower chamber for the pelvic region and softer upper chamber for the ribcage.

Side tubular or curtain airbag

In late 1997 the 1998 model year BMW 7-series and E39 5-series were fitted with a tubular shaped head side airbags, the "Head Protection System (HPS)" as standard equipment. This is an industry's first in offering head protection in side impact collisions. This airbag also maintained inflation for up to seven seconds for rollover protection. However, this tubular shaped airbag design has been quickly replaced by an inflatable 'curtain' airbag for superior protection.
In May 1998 Toyota began offering a side curtain airbag deploying from the roof on the Progrés. In 1998 the Volvo S80 was given seat-mounted curtain airbags to protect both front and rear passengers later made standard equipment on all new Volvo cars from 1998 and while initially seat-mounted later versions deployed from the roof.
Roll-sensing side curtain airbags found on vehicles more prone to rollovers such as SUV's and pickups will deploy when a rollover is detected instead of just when an actual collision takes place. Often there is a switch to disable the feature in case the driver wants to take the vehicle offroad.

Curtain airbags have been said to reduce brain injury or fatalities by up to 45% in a side impact with an SUV.

These airbags come in various forms (e.g., tubular, curtain, door-mounted) depending on the needs of the application.Many recent SUVsand MPVshave a long inflatable curtain airbag that protects all 3 rows of seats.

[Zappex]

Originally Posted by ACM

Zappex, you have not exactly got the gist of what I wrote / meant. Let me attempt to be a bit more specific.

Simply put, Are you confirming that the curtain airbags extent till the last row?
(My query was not about the number of Airbags,I should have mentioned this)

[ACM]

Originally Posted by Zappex

Simply put, Are you confirming that the curtain airbags extent till the last row?
(My query was not about the number of Airbags,I should have mentioned this)

YES,

Errr...

Well it's not for me to confirm but for TATA to; they have clearly indicated/mentioned that in 2 places (a) the Curtain Airbag photograph & (b) the "Build your own Car" campaign for Aria. The Curtain airbags do seem to extend till the last row.

Cheers, hope we don't need to use any airbags ever in any row.

[Zappex]

Originally Posted by ACM

Errr...

Well it's not for me to confirm but for TATA to; they have clearly indicated/mentioned that in 2 places (a) the Curtain Airbag photograph & (b) the "Build your own Car" campaign for Aria. The Curtain airbags do seem to extend till the last row.

I guess we have reached where we started, Admittedly there is a gap in information. The info you got points towards the curtain airbags in the third row but, from what I perceive they do not extent till the third row. Anyways, will take your word for it. So lets end this here.

Originally Posted by ACM

Cheers, hope we don't need to use any airbags ever in any row.

+1 to that , Aria is a strong contender for my next car.

[psp62in]

One query about this mounting of the spare tyre underneath the belly of vehicle. (See the pic below by GTO). The spare wheel weight would be around 15 kgs or more (my guess). Considering the position and access space, how difficult is it to dismount and mount the spare wheel at this location?
I would think that it is not possible to mount and dismount the spare wheel without atleast one assistant. And there is always a risk of wheel falling on your hands while dismounting/mounting the same.
May be I am missing something here. Can anyone shed light?

Originally Posted by GTO

Spare tyre - tucked away above the 200 mm ground clearance:

[mooza]

Originally Posted by psp62in

I would think that it is not possible to mount and dismount the spare wheel without atleast one assistant. And there is always a risk of wheel falling on your hands while dismounting/mounting the same.
May be I am missing something here. Can anyone shed light?

My Scorpio has a similarly mounted spare wheel. The spare wheel is easily lowered all the way down to the floor by rotating a cable release type mechanism from the rear boot area, wherein the wheel gets lowered (and later raised / locked back) with the metallic cable mechanism.

I have never used an assistant for replacing my punctured wheels, on the couple of occasions thus far.

I guess the Aria might be having a similar feature

[ACM]

Mooza, yep you are correct, the Aria, Scorpio, MKII, Innova, Tavera etc. have all got a more or less similar method for getting the spare wheel down and then up.

PSP, A second person is only useful for moral support if one is not too used to changing tyres but not really required. i.e. unless one absolutely does not want to get ones hands dirty at all and prefers getting the other guy messy and to bend over while placing the tyre back under the belly.

Actually in this case unlike in the Safari the strength required to hold a tyre up (against the rear door) while one bolts it to the body is not involved and one also does not get the shirt dirty holding the tyre against the shirt while fixing it to the door.

[psp62in]

Thanks Mooza an ACM for this gyan, I get it now.

[m_upreti]

Originally Posted by psp62in

One query about this mounting of the spare tyre underneath the belly of vehicle. (See the pic below by GTO). The spare wheel weight would be around 15 kgs or more (my guess). Considering the position and access space, how difficult is it to dismount and mount the spare wheel at this location?
I would think that it is not possible to mount and dismount the spare wheel without atleast one assistant. And there is always a risk of wheel falling on your hands while dismounting/mounting the same.
May be I am missing something here. Can anyone shed light?

psp62in; The tyre is mounted on a steel cable, and quiet easy to rotate down (my 4 yr old son can do it sitting in the boot), once it is close to the ground just pul it out a bit and rest it on the ground.

[bIte tHe bulLet]

It’s been a while;

since I’ve written here

&

been so….erm….how should I put it....under-whelmed?


Dangit – "Another car review?"

I like my cars, so suck it up homies & stay with me!

After having read so much about this mysterious world beating, monster crossover concept that TATA were secretly building, to help take the world over…my excitement, at the prospect of seeing it in the flesh was understandable right?

It took a move of cities, a complete re-shuffle of my life & a chance crossing of a TATA dealership in my newly adopted hometown, to allow me the pleasure of having a look & feel of the Tata Aria. Some smooth talking meant that a gleaming (not), new (not), mint condition (not) maroon coloured (err...yup) Aria rolled up at my doorstep (that might be stretching the truth just a wee bit, since I do live on the 21st floor!) the next day for a test drive.

Exteriors
The Aria is a big good looking car / crossover / muv / atv. The front end of the car looks muscular & full. The side profile looks spot on & the rear 3 quarter section pretty much looks like a CRV (which is a good thing!). The rear treatment is bland & straightforward, but given the market they are trying to tap, it will not be the deal-breaker for too many potential buyers. The panel gaps are better than my just turned 3 year old Safari too!

Paint quality on TATA products has been improving in leaps & bounds & to this end, the Aria comes clad in some bootilicious colours (a total of 6/7 shades if I remember correctly.) It all comes together very nicely as a visual package & I liked that. A bit like an Innova on steroids really!

Interiors
The Aria interiors look a whole lot better in pictures. Of that little truth, I can unashamedly promise you. But then..."so do I"! (You should see me in the cold hard light of day *sheesh* I scare myself sometimes!!!)

The version that arrived for the test drive had the optional black & plum interior combo. Discounting the fact that this was a test vehicle that would have been abused many times over, I submit that the insides will tend to look grubby & tired really quickly. At first glance a very Land Rover(ish) styled console & steering wheel greets you, which in-itself is pretty darn impressive, but sadly that’s also where it stops. For a vehicle that costs the better part of 18 lakhs (in top whack on road in Mumbai), it just does not feel premium enough.

Even though all the controls fall easily to hand & have a level of tactility that has so far NEVER been available on any TATA product, the ergonomics & quality of the Innova, (which is a whole 5 odd lakhs cheaper btw) blow it clean out of the water. There is a smallish size central display unit, which will pull up the gps display when you insert the relevant dvd into the dedicated gps slot. It also doubles as the screen for the reverse camera (& is much larger than the excuse for a screen they have on the VX version of the Safari)

For people who are now used to large, glossy touch screen enabled displays, “oops” this ain’t any of that!!! I felt a little stupid when I tried to poke around on the screen, to be blithely told by the salesman sitting next to me,

“Sir…it is naaat a touchscreen.”

Aaaaah 'NOW' you tell me.

Compound that with the little fact, that the reverse camera is horrific even in bright sunlight & you get the picture (sic), that this is a big failing. Large comfy seats in the front, pretty much bog standard capacious seats in the 2nd row & “Oh my God” in the 3rd row! Forget the 3rd row as space that you will use for seating on a regular basis. There just is not enough room. With the 2nd row pulled a long way forward (yes, they are on rails & can be adjusted backwards & forwards) there is just adequate space for children to be happy for a short time. An adult WILL have an aneurism, sooner rather than later!

Oh I forgot to add. There’s cubby holes. LOTS of cubby holes. LOTS & LOTS of cubby holes. No no no….just in case you didn’t get it, LOTS & LOTS & LOTS of cubby holes. A veritable CUBBY fest! What you are supposed to do with so many cubby holes, might make for an entertaining question, for all the engineers at TATA!!!

There are a couple of neat AC vents incorporated into the B & C pillars for air conditioning all around & they look & perform very well. It’s a whole lot better than the clumsy roof mounted affairs on the Toyota offerings or even the Sumo Grande shebang. The central console also house a single CD changer & the climate control / radio etc controls. Done in a matte black, these are surprisingly well build & stand out as some of the few, premium feeling features.

The Drive
I need to qualify that the Aria runs an identical engine, with the exact same tuning set up, as the 2.2 Safari that I drive. It has 140 bhp on tap, so my driving impressions are constantly compared to what I know of the engine, over the past 3 years.

Starting the Aria up, the 1st thing that strikes you is how quiet it has become. The sound deadening in the cabin is impressive. It isin’t a Merc, but then again you aren’t paying 50 lakhs for an E class either!!! The gear shift is a shorter / sharper shifting stick than the Safari. The clutch itself is appreciably lighter too. Out on the road, it feels very nicely planted, has less body roll than the Safari (though I suspect, this has more to do with it being lower than any better suspension!) There are steering mounted controls for audio / phone (paired via Bluetooth) as well as cruise control, (which is a bit of a waste in our country) because save for maybe 2/3 roads across India, there is nowhere that you can engage cruise control!!!

But…& here’s the very big but. The Aria seems to labour with its engine, where the Safari relishes it. I was rudely surprised at how it behaved on being floored. There was hesitation, there was dithering & then there was a groan when she realized that I wasn’t giving up. Drive her sedately & she doesn’t complain, but ask some grunt of her & she whimpers. She’ll give it out but grudgingly. You can switch between all the 4wd & 2wd on the fly (unlike the Fortuner). Thinking 4wd was the issue, I switched over to 2wd mode.

With the same effect. “Nada. Nyet. Zilch.”

Although it might have been an issue with the particular engine I drove, we all know that this engine is capable of being tuned upto 200 bhp. The Aria needs the engine to be tuned to 200 bhp! Sort it out TATA. However, having said that, this iteration of the engine has now been around in India since late 2007, so the initial niggles have been rectified via the test mules like us(!) who bought it when it first appeared!!! Expect between 9.5 to 11 in the city & above 14 kmpl on the highway. This also might be the reason that a 200 bhp version engine does not figure - it'd bury the mileage figures underground & you know how we Indian are…

"Kitna deti hai....sirf 76 km per litre? tch tch tch"

Road composure is exemplary, on par with the Safari. The large 17 inchers she rides on, play their part well! She handles in traffic like a much smaller car & it feels like, she has a tighter turning radius than the Safari. The steering feedback is reassuringly like a sedan. All versions of the Aria come with ABS & EBD, which I put to the test

(purely from an academic point of view – promise!)

The Aria rapidly hauled her speed from 110 to 10 kmph with no swerving, no weaving, no diving & no fuss. But then…that’s what ABS+EBD is supposed to do in any case!!!

Conclusion
As I stepped out of the car, I had concluded that I liked the Aria in bits. To my sensibilities, this should have been pegged against the Innova & priced accordingly. At that price point, I’d buy it in a flash.
Where it stands today…I’d much rather shuck up a further fistful of cash & get myself a darned Fortuner.

And that’s a real shame...


be safe y'all.

[Jetblast101]

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[dipen]

IMO, the Aria

• does not look premium. It only looks an overgrown van.
• suffers from the same problems as Jazz. In-appropriate pricing. You cannot price a product in a premium way when you do not have the proven track record to back you.
• The Innova still has 20+ times more sales than the Aria. Does not matter how many are taxis or private vehicles.
• The Innova is still supposedly more fuel efficient. It has a proven power train and there are easy to find examples of 200000 kms done Innovas.
• is a heavy car. Tatas and Fiat need to learn how to shed weight. All their products are the higher end when compared with respective segments.
• should have a 2WD option if volumes are expected.
• should know it is competing with the leaders of reliability. If Tata thinks that by pricing it premium it will avoid comparisons, then it is wrong.

[kaviprem]

I think, we already had all these discussions like the "wrong comparison with Innova and Fortuner", "Pricing is wrong/in-appropriate", "Tata dont have brand value", "Even with all these, Tata should have priced it less just because its Tata", etc ...

I dont think, we need a new thread to discuss the same over and over again just because one more person test drove ARIA !!!

MOD, Please close this thread and let all these continue in GTO's "Official drive" thread. That makes more sense.

Prem.

[harimakesh]

TATA killed it with greedy pricing of ARIA. 4x2 aria will obviously an MUV and compared with Innova. for a 4x4 feature 75-100K is the price difference. Side airbags+ Curtain airbags,GPS and other little features in Aria doesnot demand a price difference of 3-4L.

Tata must offer more features and better qualityin product and services at competitive pricing to lead the market segment.

Tata has taken Aria as crossover and crossedover into dangerous pricing zone. Shave off the excess pricing and do a justful correction for a reasonable product to sell.

TATA aria is compared with Xylo for local manufacturer and Innova by a global player.

It seems TATA management has gained a detrimental super over confidence that their Landrover ownership makes them to think all under TATA umbrella will be perceived as Landrover and price them like a landrover by throwing few landroverish styling for eg Aria's steering/dash.