[Arun yadav]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

No it isn't, because it is not informed.

I bought Maruti, some years back, but I doubt if I would have done so with this information to hand. I was not informed. I am now.

Will all due respect to your thoughts, I would not want to drive around in a tank ( which is almost indestructible) , as this is maybe not in the real sense of my purpose ( transportation)
We can have varied opinions on the subject, the situation worth pondering is that do we collectively need roll cages, curtain airbags & sophisticated sensors for a nation with low infrastructure, average driving speeds and income.
Do we need to blame manufacturers for not being able to report such advances to us and accept falling short on the same.

One mans cure can be the other mans poison..so no solution can fit all situations and needs. I think we need to address the relative basics first.
Our own autobahns could be some decades away.

[mayankk]

Doing a solo run to binsar, and I see this.
Very filmy.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Arun yadav

Will all due respect to your thoughts, I would not want to drive around in a tank ( which is almost indestructible) , as this is maybe not in the real sense of my purpose ( transportation)
We can have varied opinions on the subject, the situation worth pondering is that do we collectively need roll cages, curtain airbags & sophisticated sensors for a nation with low infrastructure, average driving speeds and income.
Do we need to blame manufacturers for not being able to report such advances to us and accept falling short on the same.

One mans cure can be the other mans poison..so no solution can fit all situations and needs. I think we need to address the relative basics first.
Our own autobahns could be some decades away.

Do you think that your tank analogy is big and heavy enough to squash all the other arguments? No... it is not even a good argument. Nobody wants to drive a tank, just a reasonably well designed and safe car.

I am absolutely delighted that this government is taking road safety seriously, and that there will be changes ahead, both in car manufacture and, more importantly in driver law and its enforcement.

We don't have autobahns, no: Germany does not have people taking short cuts on the wrong carriageway.

Do we need safety? Or do we need a death on the roads every 4 minutes?

[Arun yadav]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Do you think that your tank analogy is big and heavy enough to squash all the other arguments? No... it is not even a good argument. Nobody wants to drive a tank, just a reasonably well designed and safe car.

Absolutely no intention to prove a point and have a word war...and I promise this is the last on the subject, from this end.
And the talk here is about the majority , in general.
Tank analogy is misunderstood. I meant that we are still 30-40 years behind developed countries and might do well to selectively learn from history and use the wisdom to fit the current situation here in India.

In other words,it would be like having a washing machine with no water connection.

I am absolutely delighted that this government is taking road safety seriously, and that there will be changes ahead, both in car manufacture and, more importantly in driver law and its enforcement.

That is exactly what we need now, before our drivers with (skills?) get to drive in a cockpit??, with awesome power at their disposal.
Would be be clever to drastically add 4 decades of technology to a society and infrastructure that is yet to grow in to accommodate that?
there is a reason why we still have norms related to adult content for mainstream media ( society not mature enough) - please forgive the analogy if it goes too far

We don't have autobahns, no: Germany does not have people taking short cuts on the wrong carriageway.

I meant that we will definitely have our own autobahns, after the basics are addressed.

Do we need safety? Or do we need a death on the roads every 4 minutes?

That is exactly the reason of the dialog.
Please do not kill me for another analogy here..
Would you want to hand an AK-47 to a monkey who already has a pistol?

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by mayankk

Doing a solo run to binsar, and I see this.
Very filmy.

Such accidents happen at such turns during night or low visibility. The driver sees light from any vehicle coming from extreme left side of the picture and gets a false sense of straight road ahead. He only realizes his mistake once the car goes down. That is the reason why there are so many small temples to warn drivers at such bends.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by Arun yadav

Absolutely no intention to prove a point and have a word war...and I promise this is the last on the subject, from this end.
And the talk here is about the majority , in general.
Tank analogy is misunderstood. I meant that we are still 30-40 years behind developed countries and might do well to selectively learn from history and use the wisdom to fit the current situation here in India.

In other words,it would be like having a washing machine with no water connection.

Your analogy doesnt hold.

We are not talking about structural safety at 100 mph as my friends in the UK do - but structural safety at 64 kph relative impact speeds.

Do we not do faster speeds in India? And given the number of undivided highways, what relative impact speeds do they have?

Do you still think this test is not relevant?

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

Such accidents happen at such turns during night or low visibility. The driver sees light from any vehicle coming from extreme left side of the picture and gets a false sense of straight road ahead. He only realizes his mistake once the car goes down. That is the reason why there are so many small temples to warn drivers at such bends.

Interesting. That is quite possible. Many such dangers abound on our hilly tracts esp post rains.

Other issue as I once saw at Rampur on the NH, none less, was a sudden washed out portion of about 20m, which suddenly disappeared into the valley below (like the bit out apple logo). I was tired/sleepy (bike issues and had spent 14 hours on the road). Luckily I was almost pushed off the road by a HP bus so i had stopped to let it pass, and realized what I would have almost certainly ridden into

[Arun yadav]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Your analogy doesnt hold.

We are not talking about structural safety at 100 mph as my friends in the UK do - but structural safety at 64 kph relative impact speeds.

Do we not do faster speeds in India? And given the number of undivided highways, what relative impact speeds do they have?

Do you still think this test is not relevant?

I still feel the NCAP tests are an attempt to sensationalize the issue.

I would like to partly quote an article from the guardian here:
'Cars are second class citizens on most of the country's roads, which are packed with cows and carts, and their owners can do little more than slowly pick their way through a maze of decrepit backstreets and gridlocked intersections.'

Exceptions are ok, but I am convinced that we need to set up the house in order first before dressing like Romans.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Arun yadav

Absolutely no intention to prove a point and have a word war...and I promise this is the last on the subject, from this end.

I regret the sharp tone of my post and apologise. Please understand that it was not personal, but only because of a mix of passion and frustration on this subject.

I meant that we are still 30-40 years behind developed countries and might do well to selectively learn from history and use the wisdom to fit the current situation here in India.

Yes, but sadly people are loathe to learn from history or from the mistakes of others.

That is exactly what we need now, before our drivers with (skills?) get to drive in a cockpit??, with awesome power at their disposal.
Would be be clever to drastically add 4 decades of technology to a society and infrastructure that is yet to grow in to accommodate that?

But we have the power and the technology. It has been imported already. But a combination of manufacture profiteering (happens all over the world) and customer meanness (originating in lack of education) has meant importing the gun without the safety catch (more analogy!)

We have the power, we even have the roads where high speeds can be achieved. Now we need to catch up with the safety.

I meant that we will definitely have our own autobahns, after the basics are addressed.

I believe that the basics are driver education, driver testing, and law enforcement. I believe that preventing accidents is more important than lessening their effect --- but I still welcome safer cars.

[Arun yadav]

--- but I still welcome safer cars.

The ball has started to roll ... from legislative perspective.
We should have star rated vehicles around 2020.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/45029942.cms

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by Arun yadav

I still feel the NCAP tests are an attempt to sensationalize the issue.

Exceptions are ok, but I am convinced that we need to set up the house in order first before dressing like Romans.

Sensationalize the issue? *cough*

It is pure physics right in front of you. As we say in hindi, Shashvat satya.

Run as much as we want from it, the reality doesnt change!

IMHO you are still not answering my pointed question - do you think impact speeds of 64 kph are unlikely? Do we not drive faster? Given the head-on accidents possible on undivided roads, do you still think NCAP is not relevant?

/a surprised Swift 2008 vdi owner here.

[Arun yadav]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Sensationalize the issue? *cough*

It is pure physics right in front of you. As we say in hindi, Shashvat satya.

Given physics in all its purity for time and ages till date and also the timing of the tests and revelations thereby, I suspect its a case of industrial intelligence at work.
(sales figures for 'better built' safety vehicles looking gloomy after the Diwali period)
What more opportune time to malign the best seller on safety aspects under cover of NCAP? , after failing to compete on 'regular' grounds?
As I still maintain, quality is 'fitness for purpose' against given time and situation and the collective decisions of Indians is proof enough.



Run as much as we want from it, the reality doesnt change!

Nobody wants to run and I do not intend to discount the safety factor..what I am against is a planned brouhaha to scare people into buying products that might be over engineered for us, again given our time and situation.
legislation to cover safety aspects is on the way ( please see my earlier posts for details)

IMHO you are still not answering my pointed question - do you think impact speeds of 64 kph are unlikely? Do we not drive faster? Given the head-on accidents possible on undivided roads, do you still think NCAP is not relevant?

Again, its not about numbers , its about the intention I doubt.
The best safety device remains a good driver, and conversely you can kill yourself with a match stick, if you want to.
Pointed question - indeed average speed in india is way less than developed nations.

/a surprised Swift 2008 vdi owner here.

Not to worry, if you believe in so called tests, here is something to help alleviate your fears.
http://www.howsafeisyourcar.com.au/S...ki&model=Swift

Bottomline - Indian saying - Listen to all, but trust your rationale and respect your choices.

[rajivr1612]

Happened today morning on my way to office.
Location:- In front of MIOT Hospital, Mount-Poonamallee Road (Chennai)

Had some safe distance in front of me so could brake in time, car behind me was also at a safe distance, hence I was also saved from a rear hit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTT1...ature=youtu.be

[longhorn]

The moron was obviously not paying attention to the traffic in front of him. He was busy 'discussing' more important things with the pillion. I don't see any attempt by the biker to brake till he's almost on the Indica's bumper. When will these guys learn to maintain a safe distance from the vehicle in front. If he got away unscathed, it was only due to the slow speed at the time of impact.

[hellmet]

Originally Posted by rajivr1612

Happened today morning on my way to office.
Location:- In front of MIOT Hospital, Mount-Poonamallee Road (Chennai)

Had some safe distance in front of me so could brake in time, car behind me was also at a safe distance, hence I was also saved from a rear hit.

The Indica stopped way too suddenly, but yes, the motorcycle rider was following too close anyway.

[Akhilash95]

D390 crash in chennai.
Rider is currently in coma as he did'nt strap on his helmet. Not posting other images as it can be classified as blood and gore.