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Old 14th February 2020, 03:33   #30406
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Originally Posted by TROOPER View Post
I There's a video by KSRTC that shows buses have massive blind spots, especially the positions where this biker would have been before the accident.
I was at a teen driving safety class last weekend. They had a giant 18 wheeler truck and truck driver to talk to the attendees. They also had huge SUVs parked around the truck. You can sit in the driver seat of this truck with the trailer and try to count the cars around it. It was mind blowing to see how big of a blind spot these trucks have.

If the scooter just started moving while he was already in the blind spot, there would have been no way for the bus driver to know about the scooter. Considering how the busses are driven, the scooter seems to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Old 14th February 2020, 10:08   #30407
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Originally Posted by JithinR View Post
It seems you missed this part of my post. I have already stated the rider should have been riding more defensively.


I will repeat myself for your benefit. I see no proof that the biker was overtaking (or trying to get ahead of anyone). We should consider all possibilities including that the bus driver braked in the centre lane and tried to enter the bus stand without checking his corner.
.
Buddy, in post I had not talked about what the bus driver is doing or not doing. It is clear that he took a blind turn from the middle of the road and its his mistake. I fail to understand, your statement in trying to imply the biker was not trying to overtake. The bus was entering the bus stand the dude tried (or thought) to cut the bus before it could. My point was plain and simple, there is a bus stand and we know bus drivers (mostly) don't care about rules, and we should be more careful as bikers or even in car.

Last month, Chennai MTC bus side swiped my car when he tried to come from the right most lane to the left most lane to take a u-turn. This happened in-spite of me noticing him and anticipating his move and being careful on my part. Buddy, they simply don't care man.

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Originally Posted by batman View Post
It appears to me the bus stand you have mentioned is 'Central Bust Stand' and not the 'Town Bus Stand' where the incident had occurred. You can see the Greenish 'Sri Ganapathy Silks' beside the turning bus in the video. The main entrance of Town Bus Stand is opposite to this Textile Showroom and adjacent to the merging roads.
I guess you are correct, as I'm not aware of the geography of this part of CBE, I might be completely wrong. The video does show only mofussil buses, thanks for pointing.
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Old 14th February 2020, 10:45   #30408
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Originally Posted by TROOPER View Post
Biker's mistake? Should have overtaken from the right. Maybe paid more attention towards the bus.
Bus driver's mistake? Should have pressed the bus to the left as much as possible before actually making the turn, which I feel was definitely possible in the above case.
I agree with this analysis. This is what i have been saying since the accident video was linked. But you would notice members assigning the entire blame towards only the Bike rider.

Going as far as to say that he was a squid and putting out statements like this gem

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
But one could be hard-hearted and say one less squid. One less guy (and they come in female form too these days) who expected the world to revolve around him and paid the highest price when it didn't. If only others would see and learn."
is not right and definitely shows our forum (of what is supposed to be enthusiasts in a very bad light).

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Originally Posted by TROOPER View Post
I think there's no prejudice in this forum towards any of the income groups of society . Majority of two wheelers tend to disregard rules, it's a known fact. Even those who wear helmets, just like drivers wearing seatbelts. Secondly, don't forget the prevalent attitude in our country, whatever the cause/outcome of the accident, it's the 'bigger' vehicle at fault and hence you'd find most 2 wheelers flouting rules and being careless.

I think what members here forget is that Indians are prejudiced no matter what. Yes, i already know that the bigger vehicle is always at fault.

But you should also understand that for a guy like me who commutes to office (8 kms) wearing a ECE/SHARP4 helmet, a proper riding jacket (with SASTECH level 2 armours), a full gauntlet racing glove and Orazo riding shoes blanket statement against all riders (with a small concession from some members here like 'i know that not all riders are like this but..') will just serve to push a narrative that all riders are just out to 'RIDE to DIE!!' baby.

Even If i have a side shunt with a Car/SUV (in which Uncle is talking to his dear wife on his phone) I understand that I will get blamed for it because after all I am wearing the 'Racing Gear'. Which is why even extremely careful riders have to spot these idiots in their metal boxes looking through bike riders. So you see my friend, we all have to face some sort of prejudice one way or another.

A short video was posted. You can hardly make out the riders (I even had to point out to members that there two people on the bike) and some gurus here have already decided that the bike guy can be blamed.

Last edited by JithinR : 14th February 2020 at 10:47.
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Old 14th February 2020, 12:04   #30409
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https://www.manoramaonline.com/fastt...kattupady.html

Another accident involving a two-wheeler. I guess both vehicles are almost equally at fault in this accident, though I would place the blame slightly more on the biker because of the following reasons:

1. The biker seems to be crossing a larger road.
2. The risks in case of accidents are higher for two-wheelers. If you ride a bike in a careless manner, it is difficult to expect others to care for your safety.

That said, the truck driver shares a lot of the blame. At any intersection it is a good idea to watch out for other vehicles, and yield to other vehicles approaching from the right.
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Old 14th February 2020, 12:06   #30410
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Originally Posted by KL01toKA03 View Post
This is a type of accident that is most common in India. A two-wheeler overtaking from the left runs out of space when a larger vehicle makes a left turn. ...
Although painful to watch, it appears that the bus had to take a wider turn to avoid the open manhole covered with some stuff and a traffic barricade. This could be a deviation from the standard, that the bus driver is trying to compensate by turning wider.

And whatever happens, a vehicle on your right has "right of way", and the one on left is to yield. In this case the biker would have had little or no clue that the bus will turn, I don't think there were any indicators and even a conductor at the door was missing. The bus driver on the other hand will have no idea of the existence of that bike. Look at the size of that rear view mirror, it's barely large enough for shaving.

Last but not the least, being in the blind spot of a large vehicle is never a good idea. If you cannot see the driver, there is a good chance the driver cannot see you.

RIP.

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Originally Posted by DriverR View Post
A scooterist causes in coming two wheeler to crash into a vehicle and takes down a pedestrian...
This is not a T junction, it's a double U-Turn demarcated on a gap in the median, probably to discourage people from going the wrong way or to allow for easier U-Turns. One can see vehicles plying on the other side on the top left corner of the video. The rider in green shirt could be either trying to go the wrong way or getting back into the other side after making a wrong turn. The former is more likely than the latter.

The pedestrian has no business standing 2 lanes deep on the road. The biker who falls only shifts to his left after the pedestrian takes a step (0:03 mark), and it is this that leads to the accident.

Now if one logically puts everything in perspective and assumes that the lanes were properly marked, the falling biker is already in the wrong lane and needs to merge back, the only time he/she does not have right of way even though he is on the right. However it is not the case and it's free for all to drive as they please.

The blame should squarely fall on poor infrastructure design first. Then the pedestrian. Then the biker who is in a green shirt, simply because he is attempting something to compound the already existing problems.

Last edited by shubhodeepdas@g : 14th February 2020 at 12:09.
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Old 14th February 2020, 12:33   #30411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KL01toKA03 View Post
https://www.manoramaonline.com/news/...ught-cctv.html

This is a type of accident that is most common in India. A two-wheeler overtaking from the left runs out of space when a larger vehicle makes a left turn.
I work very close to this bus stand. It is indeed a major bus stand and everyone who resides in Coimbatore knows this. As a rule we always make sure to keep our vehicles on right lane just before the bus stand starts so as to avoid such incidents. Almost all who lives here does that except a few who never understand some basic things.

I ride this road every day and I can see how dangerously close people are even after knowing that 75% of green color bus plying on that route may take a left turn there. Some people never learn it seems and they pay but in this case, the young rider lost his life.

Even after this accident I still see even today people does the same thing. Overtake from left, on a bus stand entrance? I have no words simply. I just simply nod my head and ride away carefully.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 14th February 2020 at 14:40. Reason: Trimmed quote.
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Old 14th February 2020, 13:19   #30412
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Originally Posted by KL01toKA03 View Post
I see the unbuckled helmet fly away. And the pillion rider wasn't wearing one!

Can anyone read Malayalam, are the guys OK?
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Old 14th February 2020, 13:45   #30413
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Originally Posted by KL01toKA03 View Post
Another accident involving a two-wheeler. I guess both vehicles are almost equally at fault in this accident
I don't know where this occurred and whether the truck driver had a clear view of the approaching motorcycle or not. If he did indeed see the motorcycle then he must have thought that it will let him pass plus he could not apply brakes earlier or the severity could have been lesser.

The motorcycle on the other hand seems to come full speed into the crossing without a care to what vehicles are up ahead. Maybe he saw the truck and wanted to cross before it came up. Possibilities are many but the fact is that both of them failed to reduce speed and watch out for crossing vehicles at a signal-less chowk and the lesser protected paid for it.
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Old 14th February 2020, 13:55   #30414
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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
I see the unbuckled helmet fly away. And the pillion rider wasn't wearing one!
I think I see two helmets fly away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Can anyone read Malayalam, are the guys OK?
The article mentions that there is no information about the condition of the injured.
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Old 14th February 2020, 14:34   #30415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TROOPER View Post
I watched the video over and over before trying to make up my mind. ....
Bus driver's mistake? Should have pressed the bus to the left as much as possible before actually making the turn, which I feel was definitely possible in the above case.
I disagree. The bus driver did as almost all heavy vehicle drivers do in order to execute a 90 degree turn. They need to make room for themselves before they can actually turn at a sharp angle. The road in this case wasn't designed to allow for this; I would normally expect such a road to be broadened at this junction to allow for buses to make their turns safely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JithinR View Post
you would notice members assigning the entire blame towards only the Bike rider. Going as far as to say that he was a squid and putting out statements like this ..... is not right and definitely shows our forum (of what is supposed to be enthusiasts in a very bad light).

I think what members here forget is that Indians are prejudiced no matter what..... and some gurus here have already decided that the bike guy can be blamed.
The biker made the following mistakes:
1) Lane-splitting (he was squeezing in beside the bus instead of taking the center of a lane). Just because everyone does this, it doesn't make it right.
2) Overtaking from the left. Enough said already.
3) How much time did the biker invest in understanding the situation at hand? 0 seconds! He kept going fast as if the rest of the world needs to come to a standstill because he's special somehow. On the other hand, by natural selection, the rest of us stay alive and whole because we anticipate by reading every other motorist, animal and pedestrian on the road as carefully as we can.

Other members of the forum have their own rules to anticipate eventualities on the road - if a ball bounces onto the road, a child may very likely run after it, for instance. That's a very good rule to keep in mind.

Here are some of my own rules for anticipation:
1) An autorickshaw without a savaari is directionless and exhibits Brownian motion. Give it a broad berth!
2) Buses will turn left or stop on the left lane, by virtue of what they are supposed to do. And they have huge blind spots. Give them their due respect.
3) Same issue of blind spots with trucks...plus their weak braking ability when loaded. Respect!
4) A cow walking across the road will keep proceeding to where its nose is pointed. Aim for where its tail is and you and the cow will be fine.
5) Bicyclists pedaling by the side of the road tend to waver when they exert themselves. Give them a broad berth!
6) Don't just overtake a larger vehicle; try to see ahead of them to predict their next move and then overtake. If there's no visibility, don't overtake! (E.g., will the slow lorry ahead of you swerve to avoid a slow motorcyclist ahead of it? Will you be safe if you just honk and accelerate past the lorry?)

And last but not least of all - whatever rules one goes by, it is all a waste if one doesn't study the road conditions adequately. Time and effort needs to be invested in the form of mental micro-calculations all the time on our poorly planned roads. If one will not make the required effort, then one doesn't deserve safety. It's as simple as that. There's no class warfare here! A MS Dhoni on his Harley may make the same mistake and get criticized by us here in the same way.

By the way - I don't call bad 2 wheeler riders "squids". I call them bugs, because they live the bug life - because they're here today, getting squashed tomorrow. Here's an example of yet another bug lifer at 33 seconds in my dashcam clip:

Last edited by locusjag : 14th February 2020 at 14:37.
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Old 14th February 2020, 14:46   #30416
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Most people on our roads, number of wheels on their vehicle notwithstanding, have very limited awareness of blind spots and how to deal with them, whether their own or those of vehicles around them.

The near-misses we see and/or suffer (and inflict on others) everyday, are in large part attributable to the 'they should've/would've/must've seen me' assumption that tends to drive on-road behavior, pun unintended.

If one is involved in a traffic situation where staying safe involves both parties to act a certain way, it's of paramount importance that both parties are at least aware of each other's presence, before any other considerations are taken into account.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 14th February 2020 at 14:48.
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Old 14th February 2020, 16:27   #30417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JithinR View Post
Going as far as to say that he was a squid and putting out statements like this gem
... ... ...
is not right and definitely shows our forum (of what is supposed to be enthusiasts in a very bad light)..
I stand by what I said. We all see these people trying to die every hour of every day. Inevitably a few will succeed. I know bus drivers are well protected by their unions, but I don't believe any bus driver wants to have accidents, let alone kill someone, and I don't think he will be free of hassle from this event. Lets not mince words: imagine (god forbid) that this fool had come under the wheels of your car: I absolutely would not wish the consequences, mental, emotional and legal, on you --- or anyone else.

and...

It's very surprising how some of our community seem not to understand how a long vehicle has to take a sharp turn.
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Old 14th February 2020, 16:50   #30418
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
I stand by what I said. We all see these people trying to die every hour of every day. Inevitably a few will succeed. I know bus drivers are well protected by their unions, but I don't believe any bus driver wants to have accidents, let alone kill someone, and I don't think he will be free of hassle from this event. Lets not mince words: imagine (god forbid) that this fool had come under the wheels of your car: I absolutely would not wish the consequences, mental, emotional and legal, on you --- or anyone else.

and...

It's very surprising how some of our community seem not to understand how a long vehicle has to take a sharp turn.
Mate, I literally pointed out in my first point in this topic about how conductors stand on the footboard to help the driver navigate exactly such a turn.

My post was only to point out that this accident and subsequent loss of life could have been avoided if the bus had taken a more measured approach to the turn. I had already stated (and the repeated for the benefit of multiple others like you) that I believe this could have also been avoided if the biker had been riding defensively. That is as far as I will go to blame the rider.

Last edited by GTO : 15th February 2020 at 08:25. Reason: Last line was too strong & unnecessary. Thanks
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Old 14th February 2020, 17:06   #30419
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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
Most people on our roads, number of wheels on their vehicle notwithstanding, have very limited awareness of blind spots and how to deal with them, whether their own or those of vehicles around them
I agree and our poor driver training to blame for that. I will go a step ahead and say we the people have become 'blind sight drivers', what I mean is "me + my vehicle + in front of my vehicle" all around it I don't I see and it doesn't matter as well. Somehow I feel in this fast paced life of ours (where everything is available fast to us) we as humans have lost patience. Best skills needed on roads as per me are patience and a calm mind.

When talking about skill, its interesting to see the country with fastest roads accounts for less number of accidents, man those drivers are skilled.
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Old 14th February 2020, 17:12   #30420
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Originally Posted by JithinR View Post
....

....cagers need to understand that on a bike the error margin is relatively less compared to a car....
I've said my bit about the accident and don't have anything else to add, but I couldn't help but notice the irony in that comment seems lost on you. I hope not.

Given how the majority drives on our roads, number of wheels on their vehicle notwithstanding (lest you accuse me of being royalty too), two-wheeler riders need to realize that an incident that'll redirect a 'cager' to a body-shop, can put the two-wheeler rider in the morgue!

Our biggest traffic problem is we've got too many 'immortals' sharing roads with us. Again, number of wheels on their vehicle notwithstanding.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 14th February 2020 at 17:13.
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