[Fx14]

Originally Posted by corneliu

Suddenly stopping like this on a highway is obviously dangerous and borderline suicidal.

I think it's implicit that when one is talking about stopping on a highway (regardless of whether you have hit an animal or generally need to stop), one is referring to following the safe protocol of turning the left indicator on, moving over to the hard shoulder, gradually coming to a halt, putting the hazards on, and opening the driver's door only after one is a 100% sure (rear-view mirror check) that there is no traffic coming from behind.

Even with hazards on, you can suffer a follow up accident. The recent accident on the Bandra Worli Sealink was a grim reminder to this effect.

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by Rohan265

You bring up some interesting viewpoints. Can you share the research behind 0.2-0.3s maximum for average alert driver reaction time? Its quite different from what I have experienced/studied.

A good reaction time for a healthy human being is 0.2-0.5 secs (outer edge), there is plenty of evidence and research to support the same (takes under a sec to google it). Anything more and you’re impaired in some way, could be due to old age, alcohol, or other mind altering substances. One can also be distracted (major cause of accidents), sleepiness will also add time to reaction speed.

I’ve timed my own reaction speed as I regularly review clips from own dashcam and yes my times fall between 0.3-0.5 sec in almost every case, my max has been 0.6 secs. I’m not superhuman, this is what is normal for an alert driver. I do fly RC planes and game and you can say both of these require very fast reflexes but again nothing extraordinary.

Originally Posted by Rohan265

Reaction times are situation-dependent and rely a lot on the event complexity. For e.g purely reflex-based reactions such as stepping on a nail are much shorter (0.2-0.3s). A single stimulus-based reaction e.g. a well-seasoned and prepared batsman predicting and hitting a ball, takes a bit longer (around 0.5s). Driving is a much more complex process. Racing car drivers who have memorised the track and are well-versed in their vehicle controls take about 0.5-0.7s because that is the only thing they are expected to do.
It's not as simple for drivers like us. Regular drivers like us may take anywhere from 1s to up to 2s to react. This is because we simply cannot prepare for everything that can go wrong on the road. An alert and defensive driver with no other thoughts or distractions may fall on the lower end of the range.

Flat out incorrect, racers have reaction times of 0.2-0.3 secs, if you’re at 0.7 secs you shouldn’t be calling yourself a professional racer, and you sound as if they’re doing a single thing, they’re doing multiple spilt second calculations as a racetrack is a very dynamic environment.

Regular drivers take 2 seconds to react? No they don’t, please learn to use a stopwatch. If everyone took 2 secs to react we would have a bloodbath on our roads every single day.

Originally Posted by Rohan265

Full braking may be a good response. But, another factor many ignore is the brake lag. Brakes don't apply instantly. Considering the fluid pressure transfer, a brake lag of 0.2-0.3s is also to be factored in any calculation.

You’re confusing reaction time with time required to slow down, there are many factors involved in coming to a stop, that’s why your reaction time has to be very quick.

Originally Posted by Rohan265

Also, can you elaborate on the 5-6 degree steering corrections? Is this the steering wheel angle or the wheel turning angle? If its the steering wheel angle, is it sufficient to turn the vehicle because that translates only about 0.3-0.4 wheel turning angle? Also, you must be a very-skilled driver considering that you managed to control a fish-tailing vehicle at speeds above 100 kph. These conditions are even beyond some ESP thresholds.

Yes in most cases 5-6 degrees of steering input is enough to gently change direction assuming you’ve seen and reacted to the threat up ahead. This is coupled with heavy braking keep in mind.
Heavy swerve is a much sharper angle, I’d say around 30-40 degrees.

ESP works well past 100 km/hr, that’s precisely its design envelope, you think ESP is designed for 40-50 km/hr?

I am a skilled driver, as our many of us on this forum. It doesn’t take F1 level skills to control a fishtail at 110, it just takes a calm mind and practice (yes I practice on my racing sim). I suspect you have either not driven enough in real life or on track to make these claims, please do then you’ll see what I’m saying.

I will add that during a crisis we generally fall back to our training. If you have not practiced controlling a fishtail at speed and are not confident in your skill level then do not drive on public roads, it’s an essential skill that ensures your and other road users’ safety (applies to cars with and without ESP).

[rayjaycleoful]

Originally Posted by AJ56

I disagree with many of the posts justifying hitting (and likely killing) the dog above, if I’m driving I’ll do my damned best to avoid hitting any living animal or human, dog or otherwise. If this means my car is totalled so be it, I won’t have the blood of the unfortunate animal on my conscience.

Thank you and agree with you completely. There is no excuse to hitting a dog or cow or human or anything else - go to driving school or hire a driver if required. The day I touch a dog I will never drive again.
Truly appalled by all these sick posts which have gone unmoderated saying " I killed x number of dogs but the 1000rs plastic bumper on my economy box is scratched".
Shameful.

[Small Bot]

Chill, brother. I don't think anybody here intentionally goes to hit a small animal, that would be the heights of cruelty. My brother and I have two dogs and four cats between us, so I totally understand your viewpoint. But I think that different people react differently to the same situation involving animals vs vehicles. Insensitive attitude? Probably. But I would be reluctant to fault them for it if the other option was to harm humans instead.

One point which strikes me, outside of this rather dark conversation, is that not everybody knows how to drive well, even if they know how to drive. But out of that population, very few admit it or seek further professional driving training. Probably an ego issue?
Like, I've driven mostly hatchbacks in my life, and if you suddenly make me drive a Civic or Hilux, it's going to take me several scratches and serious dents before I can call myself an average driver. I'd definitely seek suport, albeit shamefacedly.

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Someone above said it takes 5 seconds to react, you shouldn’t be driving if it takes anything over 0.2-0.3 secs max to react (avg alert human reaction time). Even 1 whole second on the road is an eternity.

I guess this is one of the top reasons that separate riding/driving in India to other countries. In the US, safe riding/driving recommends the 12 second rule.
http://www.saferideronline.com/articles/12second.html

As in, take visual leads 12 seconds ahead of where you are depending on your speed. People driving 100kmph on our highways have no way to see this far. 10 seconds is 1km, there is no way to see all road blocks, the cows sitting in the median, and the tractors that will pop out of the kuchha roads. IMHO, banking on 1 second reaction time on a 4 hour drive is very risky, and tiring. When I drive in India, everyone asks me why I drive this slow when I am used to driving in Germany, and the US. I just smile, and let them think I am lame.

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

People driving 100kmph on our highways have no way to see this far. 10 seconds is 1km,

100 km/hr is 27.7 m/s, 10 seconds is 277m or 0.27km. To do 1km (1000m) in 10 secs one would have to drive at 360 km/hr or 100 m/s, which next to no one does.

I’ll agree 100%, one should be looking down the road at least 300m (or 11 seconds) to judge upcoming threats.

[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by rayjaycleoful

Thank you and agree with you completely. There is no excuse to hitting a dog or cow or human or anything else - go to driving school or hire a driver if required. The day I touch a dog I will never drive again.
Truly appalled by all these sick posts which have gone unmoderated saying " I killed x number of dogs but the 1000rs plastic bumper on my economy box is scratched".
Shameful.

I can only sympathise with your inexperience.

You have a lot to learn, and I am thankful that you are at the right place.

It is not always that you hit the dog. Many times dog (or any other animal) hit you!
It is just that you were faster than it.

Have you ever bumped into a person?
Usually it happens when one of the two is walking without looking at the path ahead.
Will you blame the person who was walking fast or the person who was walking without looking at the path ahead?
And who hit whom? The one who was faster or the one who was not looking.
Similarly, we see many people busy on phone and hitting stationary poles. Imagine this pole moving perpendicular at 100 km/hr and a person looking at the mobile bumping into it. Who hit whom?

I had hit one dog and one hen in my lifetime (actually I should say that I was hit by these two animals) and avoided many hits with dogs and other animals. Both these impacts were around 60 km/hr speed.

I was approaching a signal and slowing down when the dog hit me. It didn't come under the tyre and just ran back after the impact.
I was crossing a village on a state highway at slow speeds when the hen hit me. It came under the tyre and may not have survived. I did not stop, fearing villager justice. However, I could not eat my meal that day. We hit hundreds of flies, butterflies and insects when driving on the highway, sometimes the windshield looks like a graveyard with impact spots like tombstones, but the feeling of a soul coming under the vehicle's tyre is 1000 times more painful.

In both the instances they jumped from so close that I could not even brake, forget swerving.
You were lucky that you haven't got hit till now, but saying that I will stop driving if I hit a dog is immaturity. I would equate it to saying that I would stop walking if someone bumps into me and dies due to a head injury after falling on concrete road.

And you mentioned that someone is more concerned about his 1000 Rs bumper than a life. Sir, if someone is so worried about a 1000 Rs bumper, he will avoid impact at any cost. Love these people, don't hate them.
I am more worried for those who care less about their bumper.

My rule of thumb:
If you spot an animal while driving: Immediately honk; slow down and continue or swerve based on your judgement. Avoid impact; if you can't, make it as soft as possible.
But never take a human life for an animal. Don't hit cars around you to save an animal if you are at a high speed. If you are at a slow speed, braking will solve most of your problems.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by rayjaycleoful

Thank you and agree with you completely. There is no excuse to hitting a dog or cow or human or anything else - go to driving school or hire a driver if required. The day I touch a dog I will never drive again.
Truly appalled by all these sick posts which have gone unmoderated saying " I killed x number of dogs but the 1000rs plastic bumper on my economy box is scratched".
Shameful.

Dripping inexperience.

Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad

My rule of thumb:
If you spot an animal while driving: Immediately honk; slow down and continue or swerve based on your judgement. Avoid impact; if you can't, make it as soft as possible.
But never take a human life for an animal. Don't hit cars around you to save an animal if you are at a high speed. If you are at a slow speed, braking will solve most of your problems.

Must compliment, that you kept your cool and in fact shared excellent thoughts to educate.

While it may not be very easy to make clear choices in those split seconds, it is absolutely necessary to not lose control of the vehicle, so I would go with that rule.

Here's one I captured about 6 months back. @40second mark - the guy had no option, but if he'd had hit the median, it would have been much worse.

https://youtu.be/kX2fxvMnRo0

[Ice]

Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad

I can only sympathise with your inexperience.


My rule of thumb:
If you spot an animal while driving: Immediately honk; slow down and continue or swerve based on your judgement. Avoid impact; if you can't, make it as soft as possible.
But never take a human life for an animal. Don't hit cars around you to save an animal if you are at a high speed. If you are at a slow speed, braking will solve most of your problems.

Well said, sir.
If I might add - honking is detrimental in some instances because the animal - startled by the loud sound - often abandons its planned path and runs amok, making it more difficult to avoid it.
Appropriate speed and lane choice is paramount to avoid such instances.

[corneliu]

Originally Posted by AJ56

I am a skilled driver, as our many of us on this forum. It doesn’t take F1 level skills to control a fishtail at 110, it just takes a calm mind and practice (yes I practice on my racing sim).

Hats off to your sim practice and regular analysis of dashcam footage. Lots to learn from this!

Originally Posted by rayjaycleoful

Truly appalled by all these sick posts which have gone unmoderated saying " I killed x number of dogs but the 1000rs plastic bumper on my economy box is scratched".
Shameful.

I think it's impossible to have 100% animal hit free roads anywhere; we have them even in western coutries (albeit very rare) where the the average driving skill, training & infrastructure is a million times better than what we have in India.

But I do agree that not only do most Indian drivers display a very poor level of hazard perception & situational awareness (and this is not their fault; it is simply because we have a rotten RTO/driver education system which fails to teach them even the basics of driving and road safety), they are also very blase about these road kill incidents and treat them as though they hit a rock or some inanimate object, rather than a living and breathing creature.

Originally Posted by Ice

If I might add - honking is detrimental in some instances because the animal - startled by the loud sound - often abandons its planned path and runs amok, making it more difficult to avoid it.
Appropriate speed and lane choice is paramount to avoid such instances.

Precisely! Case in point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpRs1T_3R08

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

When I drive in India, everyone asks me why I drive this slow when I am used to driving in Germany, and the US. I just smile, and let them think I am lame.

Completely agree, it's okay to be a "lame" slow driver than have the blood of an innocent animal on your hands.

[chaitanyakrish]

This happened at Sakleshpura few days ago, as there's no traffic, I just had to stop and swerve.

https://youtu.be/7v0CJXoy9Dk

[Arun yadav]

Another tragedy:

https://www.mid-day.com/mumbai/mumba...-boys-23250342

Pattern check:
Over speeding - Yes
Over loading - Yes
Occasion - Yes
Young passengers - Yes
Recklessness - Strongly suspected
Reported cause - Tyre burst

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Arun yadav

Pattern check:

Car doesn't stand a chance in collision with tree - As usual, yes.

(It seems that the car rolled, but looks like the tree did the major damage)

[bordeaux]

Originally Posted by AJ56

I will add that during a crisis we generally fall back to our training. If you have not practiced controlling a fishtail at speed and are not confident in your skill level then do not drive on public roads, it’s an essential skill that ensures your and other road users’ safety (applies to cars with and without ESP).

I wonder if you and the rest of us live on the same planet. While it is indeed a good skill to have, if you were to put everyone without this skill off the road, I guess you'll be driving all alone while the rest of us will have to just walk everywhere.

Also, if I may ask, where do I go to learn this skill? Is there a driving institute where they can teach me how to control a fishtail at high speed?

[Lord-Lannister]

https://indianexpress.com/article/ci...ngers-8208720/

Mumbai: From November 1, seat belts compulsory for all car passengers

The traffic police have said that after November 1, they will start taking action against those whose vehicles do not have seat belts in the front and rear seats.