[sravankrishnan]

From November 1, seat belts compulsory for all car passengers

It only took the sacrifice of millions of lesser-known Cyrus Mistry's and one Cyrus Mistry to mandate this one. Overdue only by a measly few decades. Now let's bring that BNCAP into full swing, mandate child seats, get these enforced all over India and while we're at it, get the bloody roads fixed as well.

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by bordeaux

I wonder if you and the rest of us live on the same planet. While it is indeed a good skill to have, if you were to put everyone without this skill off the road, I guess you'll be driving all alone while the rest of us will have to just walk everywhere.

Also, if I may ask, where do I go to learn this skill? Is there a driving institute where they can teach me how to control a fishtail at high speed?

Well that just tells you how much work is needed to make our roads safer. Following ways to learn high speed recovery-

1) Best is to find a local track, difficult in India but not impossible. Take your car that you drive everyday and practice with an instructor.

2) Back up the track day experiences with regular sim practice and a force feedback wheel.

3) Lookout for track events or small tracks close to you locally when travelling outside India, many places allow you to drive on the Indian license and basic insurance. Use a car close to your daily driver, a sports coupe won’t handle like say a Camry.

[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by Ice

Well said, sir.
If I might add - honking is detrimental in some instances because the animal - startled by the loud sound - often abandons its planned path and runs amok, making it more difficult to avoid it.

I knew that Honking will be debated; you are right on target and that was why I never used to honk and used to think that the animals will stop in their tracks and make it more dangerous for me. But there are more benefits than disadvantages of honking in this situation and I honk everytime I see an animal about to do something unexpected on the road. Last month was no different, video and description follows.

Originally Posted by corneliu

Precisely! Case in point:

I wished he honked! The Buffalo was baffled by the silencer sound. If he honked, the care taker may have gripped the Buffalo.
I was the one who shared this video on this thread some time back. It never stopped me from honking in animal crossing situations. My video below explains why honking is better. It happened last month, but I decided to upload the video today on youtube based on these discussions.

Situation: I was returning from office. Vehicular traffic was beside me and behind me when this dog decided to cross the road.
I honked (as always) and slowed down (but did not slam the brakes).
I didn't swerve, although it appears that swerving would have given the dog more space, but swerving would have confused the dog! Moreover, traffic around made it risky.
I was surprised that even after hearing my honk, dog is not stopping and continuing.
Dogs are intelligent. They can judge the situation and make their move or stop based on situation. You need to tell them that you are coming!

Benefits of honking in these situations:
You alert the animal.
You alert other commuters.
If you end up hitting the animal, you are not left with anxiety that you didn't warn it that you were coming.

Disadvantages:
Honking can startle the animal and it may stop or change its track.

What I have observed:
Animals gets startled when they see the car approaching anyways. If you honk, you give them more time to react.

Video follows. Yes, the dog and everyone around were safe, as if nothing happened.
Of course, I was expecting the worse when the gap between the dog and the car was just a centimeter or so.

https://youtu.be/b1saMfvSzCQ

[corneliu]

Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad

It never stopped me from honking in animal crossing situations.

Honking will work if the animal is either in the middle of the road and at a distance, or on the side / median. The sound of a horn from afar serves as an alert and will temporarily make the animal freeze in such a situation.

But if you blast it with your horn at such a close range when it is already in the middle of the road, you are increasing the probability of it freezing right in front of your car or making an erratic direction change, both of which will greatly increase the probability of impact by either your vehicle or the one you were trying to overtake.

The UK has even codified this in to its highway driving code.

[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by corneliu

The UK has even codified this in to its highway driving code.

Attachment 2368219

You are not passing animals. An animal has jumped in front of your moving vehicle.

When passing animals, or any other easily irritable group of humans(who behave like hooligans), you will not disturb them by honking.This rule 214 is so obvious that's why it is not in their top 100!

I will help you with a better link.
https://www.cesarornelaslaw.com/what...-your-vehicle/

[corneliu]

Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad

You are not passing animals. An animal has jumped in front of your moving vehicle.

Redundant & irrelevant semantics.

When passing animals, or any other easily irritable group of humans(who behave like hooligans), you will not disturb them by honking.

It is the civilized thing to do. At least give the erring party a few seconds of your precious time to prove that they are really slowing you down before honking? If you can't then you're descending to their level.

This rule 214 is so obvious that's why it is not in their top 100!

This is a fallacy. It doesn't matter of it's rule #1 or rule #100000000. What matters is it's a rule & it's there.

I will help you with a better link.
https://www.cesarornelaslaw.com/what...-your-vehicle/

Advice from a random injury legal liability firm vs a rule from a government body which has some of the world's most advanced driving standards & from which we have taken almost our entire Motor Vehicles Act? I think I'll take the latter. Also, dogs are not deer. They have a much more acute sense of hearing and with your blasting them at such a close range you are probably causing them more disorientation than anything else.

[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by corneliu

Redundant & irrelevant semantics.

It is the civilized thing to do. At least give the erring party a few seconds of your precious time to prove that they are really slowing you down before honking? If you can't then you're descending to their level.

Let me make a last attempt to make you understand what the rule you shared says.

If you are driving near a place where animals are peacefully standing, do not disturb them by honking.
If you are crossing animals which are driven by someone, like a chariot, do not disturb them by honking.
If you are crossing a herd of elephants, do not honk.

Basically it is trying to maintain the peaceful coexistence of your vehicle and the animals. It is also asking you to turn off your engine for sometime etc etc.

It is so basic that you need not even create a rule for it. Number 214 was just a joke, which you of course didn't understand. The same was for a group of humans. If you are crossing a group of humans who can get easily irritated like a group that is drunk and standing outside a pub at 3 am, please do not honk. There may be a rule 31xyz8 something in the link which you shared for this as well. You misread my comment. I am not asking you to honk in such situations, I am with you on this. DO NOT HONK in these situations. I will also not honk in these situations and the rule is absolutely correct. But, we are discussing accident like scenario! not peaceful coexistence.

It is a basic civil sense that you have shared. There is no animal trying to cross a road in that rule. One of us will have to go back to elementary school again I think if we have to explain it further.

The knowledge being shared on internet are from countries which do not see dogs crossing roads. They see deers crossing roads and have mentioned it accordingly.
Dogs crossing roads is our problem. I have shared how I approach that problem. It works for me.

You can turn off your engine or slip through without honking. The dog will never know that you were there! Don't brake, it can create a screeching sound which may distract the over sensitive ears of dogs. Turn off your headlights, it may blind the dog crossing the road. All this is so nice to hear, but I will never follow it.

Stop being oversensitive for dogs. I have not seen dogs panicking after hearing a horn. I may have honked to 100 odd dogs on the road in the last 10 years (I never honked before that). Yes, they do get sudden blare, which is the purpose of honking at them. I honked in the video I shared, the dog didn't budge. They react like humans to horns, they stop and move back usually, however, some are adamant.

Try honking at dogs crossing roads, when you think it is safe for you to try and see for yourself. I was at one time standing where you are standing now. I experimented and found something that works better for me.

My other video did not had actual sound. Created this video on Inshot which has the actual sound. I honked once, the dog didn't budge, I honked multiple times and it still didn't budge, but found its way. If I didn't honk, it would have been catastrophic.

https://youtu.be/t7vuS2wnm5E

[corneliu]

Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad

L
My other video did not had actual sound. Created this video on Inshot which has the actual sound. I honked once, the dog didn't budge, I honked multiple times and it still didn't budge, but found its way. If I didn't honk, it would have been catastrophic.
https://Youtu.be/t7vuS2wnm5E

Let me try to explain a few things you did wrong in this video:

1) Overtaking from the left. You do not overtake from the left unless you have a clear view of what is ahead of the vehicle ahead of you including the blind spots ahead.
2) Low hazard perception: the dog was already in your peripheral vision up ahead at quite a distance. All you needed to do was to get off the throttle and the dog would have made it across without you needing to "slam on the brakes" as you like to dramatically describe it.
3) Clearly the dog also did not "jump in front of you" since you did not have to "slam on the brakes"; it was already committed to crossing the road well up ahead.
4) From the video you can see your honking achieved absolutely nothing. In fact it casused the dog to stop (at 0:04) and look towards you, which is what slowed him down. All your honking achieved was needless noise pollution.

I have not seen dogs panicking after hearing a horn ... They react like humans to horns, they stop and move back usually.

If the dog / human is already committed to crossing the road and is halfway through, not only are your above statements contradicting yourself, you are proving my point 4 in your own words. And are you telling me that you also honk at humans crossing the road also like this?

Stop being oversensitive for dogs.

Kindly do not make presumptions. Maybe I am just raising this points to educate you on how to not needlessly use your horn irrespective of whether animal is around or not. How do you know my intentions?

My father-in-law runs a road safety organization in Hyderabad called Roadcraft.

http://www.roadkraft.org/

They are heavily involved in road safety campaings in Hyderabad in collaboration with the Cyberabad police (they were responsible for getting all heavy vehicles on the ORR to stick to the left most lane). It might be mutually beneficial for you to get involved with them, since there is no doubt your earnestness and desire for road safety is genuine. While doing so you, you can clarify this video you have shared here to confirm & see if what I am saying is correct.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by AJ56

I disagree with many of the posts justifying hitting (and likely killing) the dog above, if I’m driving I’ll do my damned best to avoid hitting any living animal or human, dog or otherwise. If this means my car is totalled so be it, I won’t have the blood of the unfortunate animal on my conscience.

Here is someone from your school of thought.

https://www.cartoq.com/mahindra-xuv7...rs-safe-video/

I don't swerve unless for a human. That is how I was trained to drive in USA. All the state issued driving manuals insist on that. Even other countries have laws against that.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...-land-21554069

[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by corneliu

Overtaking from the left. You do not overtake from the left unless you have a clear view of what is ahead of the vehicle ahead

You are hell bent in proving your point and bringing new elements. Please do not divert from the topic. Moreover, you do not know the road dynamics where it happened.

I do not overtake from left, but there is a U turn on the right most lane and vehicles moving in the rightmost lane usually stop there. Hence, everyone comes to the left lane at this part to avoid getting stranded before someone who takes that U turn.

You are miseducating everyone by sharing random UK rule which is not applicable in the situation being discussed. Hope your father in law’s organisation is doing a good job.

I wanted the dog to see me and thats why I honked. It did see me. It started walking faster and if it hadn't, it was too late for me to avoid a collision.

Regarding humans, if someone is trying to cross without looking at you, honk! He will move back or at least stop. Same is with humans on vehicles. Isn’t the horn made for this purpose? Yes, I horn at people who are not paying attention. I dont honk to push people/ vehicles aside though.

As I said, honk as soon as you see the animal. Which means that you should honk when it just starts crossing the road. If the animal is on the middle of the road, you were not looking at the road.

You did not feel good about a law firm recommending honking to alert animals crossing the road. Let me share more recommendations with you!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...deer/94251910/

https://www.metromile.com/blog/accidents-with-animals/

https://www.farmersalmanac.com/tips-...llisions-28512

With this I rest my case. Don’t find fault in my way of doing things unnecessarily. You are always free to follow rule 214 you shared. I also follow it, but not where it is not applicable. I think I did well in my elementary school to understand what is written in it.

[itwasntme]

Good time to run through the Moral Machine scenarios:

https://www.moralmachine.net/

[deathwalkr]

Can we have a separate thread to discuss the animal on road scenarios?

[corneliu]

Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad

I do not overtake from left, but there is a U turn on the right most lane and vehicles moving in the rightmost lane usually stop there. Hence, everyone comes to the left lane at this part to avoid getting stranded before someone who takes that U turn.

If so, then you should have been doing this a much slower speed that what you were already doing. Also, trying to overtake at such a place is hazardous.

You are miseducating everyone by sharing random UK rule which is not applicable in the situation being discussed.

It is not a random rule, and is very applicable in this situation you have shared. Have you read what I wrote above?

Hope your father in law’s organisation is doing a good job.

It is doing a great job, you should definitely check them out and get involved. FYI, Cyberabad traffic police regularly consults him for advice, and he organizes training sessions for their constables regularly. He has also written several books book for road safety in India. He also runs an excellent driving school which not only teaches you driving but also driving ethics.

I wanted the dog to see me and thats why I honked. It did see me.It started walking faster.

The dog had already scanned the road and was committed to the crossing and was halfway through. Your video clearly shows that your honking to make it look at you slowed it down thereby increasing the messiness of the situation.

and if it hadn't, it was too late for me to avoid a collision.

If it was too late to avoid collision, then all I can say is that is a rather unskilled maneuver, which probably is not even being carried out in the correct gear. If you were overtaking at 2nd/3rd gear, and just left your foot off the pedal, the engine braking would have taken care of you slowing down well in time for the dog to cross. Rather than sharing these videos to show people what to do, I'd recommend your watching them to try to introspect on what can be done better.

If the animal is on the middle of the road, you were not looking at the road.

Precisely my point, you only honked when the dog was already in the middle of the road. So you were not looking. Lack of hazard perception.

You did not feel good about a law firm recommending honking to alert animals crossing the road. Let me share more recommendations with you!

Again deer?

Don’t find fault in my way of doing things unnecessarily.

Sir, you only are the one who tried to lecture me on what to do in the buffalo video. And if you are justifying this with something that is not correct / ethical, I will definitely point it out to you.

Have a good day, and if you can get over this, do get in touch with Roadcraft & Streetwise, as we can definitely do well with being in touch with people who are genuinely concerned about road safety.

[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by corneliu

Precisely my point, you only honked when the dog was already in the middle of the road. So you were not looking. Lack of hazard perception.

There are so many allegations in your post and I do not have time to address all.

I honked when the dog was on the middle of the road and I was not looking at the road?

See the time I honked first, the dog just entered the road. Please see the video at 0.25 speed.

I didn't lecture you, you lectured me by sharing the buffalo video where there was no honking involved.

Good day to you too. Introspection is a good thing to do! I hope you follow what you advice. It is also good to check our eye sight regularly. The middle of the road may be the edge!

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Here is someone from your school of thought.

https://www.cartoq.com/mahindra-xuv7...rs-safe-video/

I don't swerve unless for a human. That is how I was trained to drive in USA.

If you only swerve for humans then that’s very dangerous and shows poor training, as you’re effectively saying you won’t swerve for anything else? What about obstacles/debris? What about larger animals like cows/horses/elephants that will do much more damage to you and your passengers if hit head on one without evasive action?

Regarding the XUV 700, had he been from my school of thought he would understand the limits of the top heavy vehicle he’s driving and reacted appropriately, 80 is very slow and if someone’s managed to topple their car at this speed it tells me they have no idea how to swerve correctly and likely over steered.

As a driver, I will brake and then (last resort) swerve to avoid any and all obstacles that can hurt me or damage my vehicle. Each to his own I guess.

Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad

I do not overtake from left, but there is a U turn on the right most lane and vehicles moving in the rightmost lane usually stop there.

I will add that there’s a difference between passing and overtaking, you were passing which is allowed in both left and right lanes. In many areas the right lane is only for turning, doesn’t mean every other lane is overtaking those vehicles waiting to turn.