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Old 22nd February 2023, 20:27   #37411
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Originally Posted by Latheesh View Post
Kozhikode accident, she is holding on to her life!
I had to slow the down the video to 0.5x to understand who is holding what. Must have been near death experience. Looks like a case of unbelted passenger.
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Old 22nd February 2023, 22:44   #37412
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Originally Posted by kadanaJ View Post
Buddy, if the standard is that drivers need to be able to spot tennis balls, we won't be able to drive anywhere!

There is a certain reasonable expectation that a parking lot should be free of obstacles, children and pets.
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Originally Posted by N.A.GTC View Post
You may replace the kid with whatever you like, but the fact is none of those things - not the pet, not the boulder - is supposed to be on the road/drivable areas.

The kids should not had been playing near cars. A boulder should not be allowed on the road. A pet should not be left unsupervised on open roads. It's as simple as that.

I quite see the possibility that the kids would had been in the driver's blind spot, as others have already said earlier.
The driver was arrested under various sections of the motor vehicle act. Rightly so.

Regarding blind spots, if you are starting from a standstill position, you have to ensure that your car does not have any obstruction. I have seen kids hiding under cars and dogs and cats are omnipresent.

When you are driving, you have a clear vision of the road ahead and you can spot a tennis ball easily. When you are turning, you have to ensure that you follow the path that you SAW.

I am expecting everyone has passed the driving test (usually the 8 and the H). The height of the track is not more than a brickís height. Will Ecosport not pass that test?

In a society (with kids in abundance), one has to be extra careful. This is all I can say and recommend. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I sometime feel I am suffering from OCD, as I am extremely careful in my society, even in my basement parking, where kids donít linger.

Food for thought- School zones.
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Old 22nd February 2023, 23:53   #37413
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Regarding the Ecosport accident, i feel that all of us driving in India should drive with one principle. Make no assumptions. Period. If you can't see what is ahead, stop and look. This is for yous and your vehicle's, as well as others safety too.
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Old 23rd February 2023, 07:04   #37414
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I can't help but wonder how everyone is able to come up with "solutions" regarding 'what should he/she have done instead' under every single scenario of accident that comes up in this thread.

I agree that the purpose of this thread is to alert us to the pitfalls of negligence by oneself and by other road users, and how to drive defensively.

But that doesn't mean there is a "solution" to every single scenario. There is the factor of 'luck'/'chance' that plays a huge role in accidents.

Tomorrow, I am sure there will be a post saying how the driver of a car who was waiting at a signal and happened to be under the overhead construction of metro flyover (take any city in India, there is absolutely no concept of 'clearance zones' near/under construction sites, simply because there is no space and there is too much traffic) could have prevented a falling rod/bucket on the roof of his car, by sheer 'awareness/cleverness/defensive-driver-mindset' !!

There is a reason these events are called "accidents" - we mustn't forget that.

Last edited by venkyhere : 23rd February 2023 at 07:10.
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Old 23rd February 2023, 08:14   #37415
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Originally Posted by venkyhere View Post
I can't help but wonder how everyone is able to come up with "solutions" regarding 'what should he/she have done instead' under every single scenario of accident that comes up in this thread.
Two terms define what we are doing here.
RCA and CAPA

RCA is Root cause analysis, where one tries to find the root cause of the event. Luck, coincidence etc cannot be a root cause.
Let's say a car was struck by Lightening, root cause can be driving in bad weather conditions.

CAPA stands for corrective action and preventive action. Taking the car to the garage to get it repaired after an accident is corrective action. Finding ways to prevent the accident comes under preventive action.
Sometimes a preventive action cannot be defined, but not going out to drive in bad weather is also a preventive action, even though it could appear absurd or impractical.

In the Ecosport incident, someone suggested installation of mirrors, children not being allowed to play on the society road, children being accompanied by parents, society parking design restructuring, driver being extra cautious inside society roads, driver checking for any obstruction by inspecting the area physically etc etc.

All these are good preventive actions. I can suggest few more, like mandatory children safety awareness trainings wherein not touching loose wires from poles, not touching poles, not playing near cars, not sitting on the road etc etc could be included.

To summarise, impractical preventive actions are also preventive actions. There is no harm in suggesting them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FORTified View Post
Add to it - The climbing angle of the ramp that makes the view skywards,
The LEFT U turn, which makes the blind area further wider and kids being on the ground [looks like they were lying there.]. This accident is impossible to avert.

I saw somebody suggesting mirrors - Won't help the driver as his view is skywards. His vision may be adjusting to the day light as he is coming out of the cellar.
Another suggestion was to honk. Seriously?
Do we really think this is impossible to avert?

Watch the video again. This time let the driver exit the ramp and move straight ahead (there is sooo much space) and then reverse mildly to align the car perpendicular to the parking and then enter the parking, or take a longer U turn, which allows him to move on the path that he has seen.

That sharp turn was inviting trouble from all angles. He has to straighten the car anyways to enter the parking comfortably.

I think he took a dangerous shortcut, which he may have done 100 times earlier.

Regarding honking, I never honked while exiting the ramp in my society. Learning is, I should! The good part is, the entry to the ramp has rolling metal rods, which creates a loud sound whenever a car enters the ramp. Not good for catching kids attention playing above, but good enough for the guards posted at the society exit to stand up and open the door by the time I reach the exit.

Sharing the post again for convenience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaitanyakrish View Post
This happened in Hyderabad few days ago and I think the driver was distracted.

https://twitter.com/ParasaRajeswari/...67857600188416

Last edited by MT_Hyderabad : 23rd February 2023 at 08:43.
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Old 23rd February 2023, 08:28   #37416
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Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad View Post
Two terms define what we are doing here.
RCA and CAPA

RCA is Root cause analysis, where one tries to find the root cause of the event. Luck, coincidence etc cannot be a root cause.
Let's say a car was struck by Lightening, root cause can be driving in bad weather conditions.

CAPA stands for corrective action and preventive action. Taking the car to the garage to get it repaired after an accident is corrective action. Finding ways to prevent the accident comes under preventive action.
Sometimes a preventive action cannot be defined, but not going out to drive in bad weather is also a preventive action, even though it could appear absurd or impractical.

In the Ecosport incident, someone suggested installation of mirrors, children not being allowed to play on the society road, children being accompanied by parents, society parking design restructuring, driver being extra cautious inside society roads, driver checking for any obstruction by inspecting the area physically etc etc.

All these are good preventive actions. I can suggest few more, like mandatory children safety awareness trainings wherein not touching loose wires from poles, not touching poles, not playing near cars, not sitting on the road etc etc could be included.

To summarise, impractical preventive actions are also preventive actions. There is no harm in suggesting them.
I'm sorry, but this post feels like jargon peddling. RCA/CAPA etc are fine sitting on a presentation slide explaining safety aspects of a factory floor where the scenarios/people involved are 'limited' and 'controlled'. The traffic/human-behavior scenario in India, is so far removed from such 'controlled' environments, that such jargons aren't worth the paper they are written on. We can take care of 98% of scenarios, that 2% that is left (like this ramp and children example) has to be resigned to 'luck'. (what if there is convex mirror at the ramp exit, the guy stops and waits two seconds after levelling the car out of the ramp, but then a puppy breaks it's leash and exactly comes under the car as he is turning. It could also be a child who breaks the finger hold of his parent and runs into the path of a turning car - we have to accept that sometimes "we can't see, even if we want to")

Let me further modify your own scenario where a husband has to take his expecting wife to the hospital, due to an unusual labour pain much earlier than the ballpark of the 9 month period ; and it's on a thunderstorm day in the middle of June. And then, unfortunately, lightning strikes and kills the car electronics in one instant, leading to an accident. What now ? Should he wonder about how badly the couple timed their act that led to reproduction ?

It is a folly to think that everything that happens in life can be 'objective controlled'. It simply can't.

Last edited by venkyhere : 23rd February 2023 at 08:33.
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Old 23rd February 2023, 08:29   #37417
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Originally Posted by karthikg87 View Post
I donít understand why everyone is blaming kids or their parents here. This is a housing society and kids will be found playing, walking, sitting etc. every where.

Itís the drivers responsibility while coming up a ramp or a turn to stop and check before proceeding which he clearly did not do in this case. If the kids were in his blind spot thatís his problem and thatís more a reason to be more cautious while driving such vehicles. I drive an Ecosport and itís not particularly challenging to do that if you are careful every single time despite the thick pillars.

These are the kind of drivers while joining a main road from a smaller one that do not wait and check but rushes onwards.

Itís just sad that he ended up punishing the kids as well as himself for his lackadaisical attitude.
This is a joke, right? So now we're excusing kids being allowed to sit (not even standing which could be visible!) around next to a parking ramp where, you know, cars are driven up and down frequently? The thickness of A/B pillars is immaterial as well as the driver's line of sight in these high waistline modern cars would likely not be low enough to see kids sitting down. I am not going to blame these kids here as they're probably too young to know any better. However, I expect the society watchmen/attendants to direct these kids to a safer part of the complex (a designated play area maybe) to play in. Its about managing risk and making public spaces safe for everyone.
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Old 23rd February 2023, 09:10   #37418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venkyhere View Post
I'm sorry, but this post feels like jargon peddling. RCA/CAPA etc are fine sitting on a presentation slide explaining safety aspects...

Let me further modify your own scenario where a husband has to take his expecting wife to the hospital, due to an unusual labour pain much earlier than the ballpark of the 9 month period ; and it's on a thunderstorm day in the middle of June. And then, unfortunately, lightning strikes and kills the car electronics in one instant, leading to an accident. What now ? Should he wonder about how badly the couple timed their act that led to reproduction ?

It is a folly to think that everything that happens in life can be 'objective controlled'. It simply can't.
We all do RCA and CAPA for small tasks in our lives, but yes, not so formally. We all have burnt our fingers in the kitchen and we learnt.
We understood the root cause, we did the corrective action, we took preventive actions and now we don't burn our fingers anymore.

For your scenario, yes, there is luck involved. As I said, there are scenarios where there is no preventive action possible. The driver could have had a heart attack and all three could have died in an accident. We all live with those uncertainties.
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Old 23rd February 2023, 10:07   #37419
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Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad View Post
Watch the video again. This time let the driver exit the ramp and move straight ahead (there is sooo much space) and then reverse mildly to align the car perpendicular to the parking and then enter the parking, or take a longer U turn, which allows him to move on the path that he has seen.

That sharp turn was inviting trouble from all angles. He has to straighten the car anyways to enter the parking comfortably.

I think he took a dangerous shortcut, which he may have done 100 times.
I watched the video multiple times. Iím still not sure how you assumed that the Ecosport is going to parking?

It doesnít make any sense at all! Why would a car climb the ramp up and then go into parking?

Maybe you live in this society or you know this society personally so well to make this claim. But without that evidence, it just looks to me that the car is exiting the basement (where the car wouldíve been parked) and taking the usual driveway to the exit gate. How are we saying the ďsharp turnĒ is not as per design?

In the video you can see a lady running towards the incident from left and it can be inferred that itís an open space so it certainly doesnít look like the Ecosportís parking space.

RCA and CAPA are all fine! But with incorrect RCA the CAPA will also be grossly wrong.

Youíre calling the driver reckless with the above assumption which is a very strong allegation to make and forms the foundation of your RCA. And the entire CAPA is built on this RCA, which to me looks like the solution is to ďHonkĒ. Iíd really despise if every car in my society honks as they exit the society.

Weíve probably debated this enough, but I thought of sharing a view point on why the driver deserves to be given benefit of doubt. Donít wish to continue this conversation though, we all have learnt quite a lot from the incidence already.
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Old 23rd February 2023, 10:41   #37420
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Originally Posted by krishnakumar View Post
I watched the video multiple times. I’m still not sure how you assumed that the Ecosport is going to parking?

It doesn’t make any sense at all! Why would a car climb the ramp up and then go into parking?
I didn't use the word parking in my first post related to this accident, however, there were posts suggesting that it is a parking space hence this assumption.

Reckless driving is the charge that Police has imposed on the driver and arrested him under the same.

If this is a sharp U turn, then something like this was bound to happen sooner or later. In our society there are four or five entry ramps and only one exit ramp from the basement parking. If someone exits from the entry ramp, this situation can be mimicked, as entry ramps are not designed for exits. Maybe someone living in this society or has seen this sep up can throw some light on the situation.

Last edited by MT_Hyderabad : 23rd February 2023 at 10:42.
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Old 23rd February 2023, 10:47   #37421
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Originally Posted by chaitanyakrish View Post
Most of the time, we end up being looked up as a paranoid person, but until an event like this happens, very few realizes the importance of being risk aware.
In our society as well, kids run around/ cycle recklessly on the vehicular roads even though there's dedicated playing area and walking / cycling tracks. There have been many close calls, particularly in evening hours. I too have given earful to the kids. Infact I have seen many parents guiding/ scolding their kids to play in designated areas, but still they go back to usual ways after few days.

Only thing that I do is to drive extra cautiously in any society or narrow lanes assuming that anyone can jump in front from anywhere.
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Old 23rd February 2023, 11:17   #37422
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I got more details from Google photos about this place. The locality name is HIG Chitrapuri Hills.

The place from where the car exited looks like an entry point. 'Exit' sign is pointing inwards to the basement.
There is a huge open space just next to the entry to this ramp.

Anyways, police has investigated and knows better who is responsible. They must have accessed other CCTVs also.

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Last edited by MT_Hyderabad : 23rd February 2023 at 11:21.
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Old 23rd February 2023, 15:37   #37423
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Ultimately, it's everyone's responsibility to exercise caution and act responsibly when it comes to road safety. Drivers need to be vigilant and cautious, parents need to supervise their children, and children need to be taught about the dangers of playing near roads and vehicles.
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Old 23rd February 2023, 16:16   #37424
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Originally Posted by MT_Hyderabad View Post
I got more details from Google photos about this place. The locality name is HIG Chitrapuri Hills.

The place from where the car exited looks like an entry point. 'Exit' sign is pointing inwards to the basement.
There is a huge open space just next to the entry to this ramp.

Anyways, police has investigated and knows better who is responsible. They must have accessed other CCTVs also.

https://Youtu.be/FiGZVNFdQFY
So if the guy was coming up the ramp, he was apparently taking a short cut as the way down is marked as exit. It is difficult to sympathize with the driver in this scenario. What if it was the other way round and people had to exit via the ramp?

The answer is that it would be a badly designed exit. And that the driver should be more careful.

In my apartment complex, we need to enter and exit from a steep ramp as well. Every time I climb up, I slow down at the top to observe if something or someone there, possibly crossing the ramp. The fear of Overrunning someone is ingrained. Sometimes I see both two wheelers and four wheelers driving faster in the basement, and when entering or exiting the ramp, and I always hope that they don't get involved in an accident.

Of course, I don't blame the driver alone here. The parents can be blamed to an extent. The security can be blamed to an extent. But if the guy was driving up the wrong way, how can one even predict such an outcome?
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Old 23rd February 2023, 16:56   #37425
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So if the guy was coming up the ramp, he was apparently taking a short cut as the way down is marked as exit. It is difficult to sympathize with the driver in this scenario. What if it was the other way round and people had to exit via the ramp?
The building has a unique design.
You enter and exit through these two ways shown in the images.

There are cars on the upper deck, which means that some cars have to park on the upper deck and some on the lower deck. This car may have designated parking on the upper deck.

However, he may have chosen the exit ramp to reach the upper deck as this would be closer to his home. This being a very new society, drivers are sometimes unaware about designated entry and exit ramps also. I was myself confused when I started living in such a society with multiple ramps.

I am quite sure that building designers will not have allowed entry and exit on the upper deck using the same ramp. It is dangerous. But all these are assumptions.
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Last edited by MT_Hyderabad : 23rd February 2023 at 17:06.
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