Firstly, apologies for the long post. Bear with me please.
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Originally Posted by prakhar1998 I Another thing is that this certainly doesn't suggest that the Alto,Nano or in fact the i10 performed any better.
Why GNCAP has only asked Datsun, and not any other manufacturers is highly unclear. |
GNCAP may have started with a brand with the lowest market impact. It allows them to do two things: (1) make a strong message to the Indian auto industry, (2) and at the same time, not have a major financial impact on the market as a whole. In any case, they had to start somewhere, if at all. One may argue that they could have done it with the Nano, but I guess they realize that the Nano is the cheapest car in the world, and does not come from European, Japanese, or American brand, though the Tata’s are no less global, with more than 70% of the groups US $ 100 Bn coming from outside India.
Also, I think the first batch of tests on the Polo and Figo generated a lot of reaction from the Indian press, and Indians in general. This may have played a role in encouraging GNCAP to take this bold step.
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Originally Posted by Astleviz You are drawing the wrong inference from these tests. The Swift didn't fail the tests because it uses lighter sheet metal but because it is poorly designed and engineered. |
Just to add to your post: Agreed its design and engineering. But the word “poorly” may unintentionally imply that its lack of capability. While in this case it’s a glaring lack of intent, for whatever reason, justifiable or unjustifiable. It is not like any of these manufacturers do not know how to make a care safe. It’s more like a
deliberate, planned and conscious decision to include or omit key aspects of a car that make it safer than what is sold today: missing welds points which are expensive, using lower grade steel , etc.
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Originally Posted by Hayek That's also the issue I have with Maruti. By taking structural members OUT from the Swift, they are letting their customers down. In some senses it is worse than what Nissan has done. People who buy a Swift or Corolla or Accord in India reasonably expect it to be the same product as the one sold globally - with missing features appearing (or not appearing) on the brochure. Making a product that has been deliberately engineered to be less safe in a manner that a customer can't detect, and selling it under a global brand name is betraying the customer. Certainly a fit case for someone to file a complaint with the CCI in my view. |
Allow me to add to your post: The Swift can touch 8+ lakhs on road in many cities. By no means is it a cheap car. By no means is the ZXI variant equipped with ABS and Airbags expected to fail. By no means is the Lxi variant expected to have an unstable structure, that too if other manufacturers are able to provide a safer car at the same or lower price point.
The point I want to make is: Lets make no mistake, this is a vicious circle. Any company which is making huge profits because of such cost saving measures, and because of the sheer numbers it sells, has an unfair advantage in terms of its cash flows, its profits, and most importantly in its ability to invest in newer and more diverse products, which in turn make room for it to generate more market share and more numbers and more profit, as well as more returns for its share holders. Ultimately that’s the end game.
Will it be unfair to question if Maruti would have the same sales figures if its cars were 30-50,000 more expensive because they had to make them as safe as their European products. I guess the other manufacturers who make relatively safer body shells and equally decent products (Polo, Punto, Figo) would have a better chance to sell in such a scenario, improving their business prospects, and their future in the Indian market.
Wouldn’t it be fair that these other manufacturers get returns considering that they were every so slightly more considerate of the Mango Man and his safety, though the real reason may well be that they may be playing to their strengths and distinguishing factors.
Just want to add a disclaimer here: I own a Maruti for the past several years, and am not trying to bash anyone. I am trying to analyze the far reaching business and social implications the combination of cost cuttings on safety, and still selling huge numbers may have.
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Originally Posted by aseem Cost of life in West is more then cost of life here unfortunately however sad it's the truth. None of our factories regulations follow the same safety standards as US.
However that's just singling out one thing. Let's begin with roads, pollution, noise pollution, road worthiness of busses trailers, lane driving, speed limits, proper marked speed breakers. The thing is driving in India is not safe period! |
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Originally Posted by sadsack So let us make a beginning by setting in place procedures for issue of licences, procedures for licence cancellations for habitual offenders, let us build better roads without potholes or let us not build NHs that go through villages bisecting them, let us enforce the compliance to safety features like working tail lamps, head lamps and flashers, let us ensure that our cars are in decent condition, let us not try to save 1ml of fuel by driving on the wrong side of the road instead of going to the U turn, let us drive in lanes and follow speed limits, let us not have buses that are jam packed and travelling at 2 kmph over inclines, forcing others to attempt overtakes, let us stop using cell phones while driving and parking in the middle of the road to complete a call.... I can go on. |
May I just say that each of the above issue is definitely a reality somewhere or the other in India. However, each has a different set of solutions too, and each gets highlighted, discussed and debated in various forums. Each needs due and careful attention and some need more government intervention than others, but all need the attention and focused support of citizens to bring about change.
So I do not think that there is anything wrong that in this particular thread we are discussing one such important aspect of car safety. I am sure no one will mind starting other threads about some of the aspects you mentioned.
This particular thread is also about whether one gets his money’s worth, among other things I and others have already mentioned earlier. Nothing wrong if individuals feel a need to comment on that aspect of their purchases.
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Originally Posted by saket77 We also need to understand that car buying is still a luxury in India. For many of us, car buying is an event of lifetime, more so like an aspiration rather than just buying decision. Hence, it is quite natural to go for entry model cars/ cheaper variants as they are easier on the pocket of average Indian families. This is how an average Indian family rolls on a budget. |
While I take your point that budgets are important, there are three points that I would like to share:
- consider a 25,000 increment due to ABS and Airbags, and a 20,000 increment in consolidating the structure of an Alto (these numbers which are conjectures, and the model chosen, are for the sake of argument only) which costs around 3.2 Lakhs ex-showroom Delhi. The difference in EMI for a 5 year 10.5% loan is less than 1100 bucks. Now in a culture where safety of the entire family is considered very important, this would not be a big barrier. However, in a culture where 10,000 bucks are sometimes spent on a music system this difference of 1100 bucks could be too much.
- A safer car is also your insurance towards lower hospital bills. We all know how insurance works right. Paying 1000 bucks a month may avoid potentially expensive medical bills later, let alone the threat of permanent disability. Healthcare is no longer cheap in India, I would say, prevention is better than cure.
- While I completely agree that each individual may have a different need, I have something else to highlight about our non-regard to safety as a culture. There are 9-10 lakh two wheelers sold in India monthly, a good number of which are the high end ones, costing close to a Lakh, if not more. A part of this population use them as leisure bikes over weekends, but a majority use it in daily commute. I am not saying that individuals, who buy such expensive bikes, should not buy them, but the humble Nano is relatively safer than them. Still the Nano gets less than a 1% of those 9 lakh bikes sold. There is a message there, if one cares to read.
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Originally Posted by saket77 However, the problem will be solved to an extent by making the safety features standard on all cars. This will result in localization of manufacturing of concerned parts and economy of scales will further see a price drop. We should not construe that prices will go north based on the prices of current models offering those safety kit. It has to be & will be substantially lower. |
Absolutely. I am not sure about the exact rates, but for every doubling in production volume, most products show a 12-22% decrease in cost. And in India, we need more like a 20 fold increase in volumes of safety equipment, not two fold. So a lot of scope in price reduction.