[vibbs]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

I just compared the partial policing in NICE road to nil policing in this expressway.

I agree - i too would not mind paying 640, but it is definitely high by any standards.

Lets wait and see how they police the road. I too am vary on that front. The region is quite volatile and I would be worried about safety on a lonely highway without enough and efficient policing. But these are early days. Hope they keep up to the expectations.

The cost may seem on the higher side, but considering the mess you have to drive through if you take the NH, I guess I would gladly opt for this. NH goes through many cities enroute to Agra. I dont think it is possible to cover the stretch in less than four hrs driving safe. 2-2.5 Hrs seem a breeze in comparison.

But as I said these are early days, and for all the hype, if they cant ensure exclusivity on the Expressway, it defeats the purpose more so considering the amount they are charging.

[bblost]

Originally Posted by vibbs

it is just an outer ring road of a city.

Frankly speaking I dont see any point in comparing a 40 odd Km intracity road with a Highway that connects two different cites.

Just to clarify that an Outer Ring Road can also be long. As long as 158 kms.
Outer Ring Road, Hyderabad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Outer Ring Road or ORR is a 158 kilometer, 8-lane ring road expressway encircling the City of Hyderabad, AP, India. It is built by HMDA at a cost of Rs.6696 crores.[1] with an assistance of Rs 3,123 crores from Japan International Cooperation Agency.[2] The expressway is designed for speeds of 120 kmph.[3] It gives a proper connectivity between NH 9, NH 7, NH 4 and state highways leading to Vikarabad, Srisailam and Nagarjunasagar.[4] The expressway has fencing and a two-lane service roads on either side.

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by bblost

Just to clarify that an Outer Ring Road can also be long. As long as 158 kms.

Yes it can be, but here the point was about Nice ring road which is about 40 Km long. In any case my point was not as much on the lengths as it was on the different characteristics of a road within the city and its suburbs as compared to one which connects two different cities.

Importance (or the lack of) of the Taj Expressway can be judged only by comparing it with the other alternative present or with similar examples of intercity highways.

[esteem_lover]

Originally Posted by vibbs

Taj expressway is a very good tool to drastically reduce driving times between Delhi and Agra, more so since the route is a very popular part of the tourist circuit. Provided it is manitained as an expressway is supposed to be maintained, it would lead to making a day trip to Agra a very comfortable affair. I for one would not mind paying up 640 Rs for an Agra trip, if it ensures me a stress free 4 hrs to and fro drive.

As a tourist, maybe I would not mind spending (because I am always spending on everything) Rs.640 on a round trip just for using a road for which I have already paid through my road tax. How about a regular person who is travelling between delhi-agra ? I understand that this is a toll road because it will cut my travel time a lot. But 320 for a single journey of 165 kms ??? And we are justifying that even before we got to use it ?? even more shocking.

Originally Posted by vibbs

The cost may seem on the higher side, but considering the mess you have to drive through if you take the NH, I guess I would gladly opt for this. NH goes through many cities enroute to Agra. I dont think it is possible to cover the stretch in less than four hrs driving safe. 2-2.5 Hrs seem a breeze in comparison.

I am surprised you say this, what are the benefits on this road other than the usual benefits on any other toll roads ? The media is saying that this will shorten your trip by 3 hours, even more shocked, for a 165 km trip ? As far as I know, Bangalore-Chennai (340 km) is not an "expressway", but can be done in 4-5 hours in un express speeds. And Chennai-Pondicherry can be done in 2- 3 hours (same 160km) on the 2 laned ECR or the 4 laned NH 45 without taking any risks other than what will be there in this new expensive expressway with a speed limit of 100 kmph (?). And the toll for this is just 60 odd. Somebody please justify this one.

That is just from what I know, there are plenty like that across India.

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

And we are justifying that even before we got to use it ?? even more shocking.
The media is saying that this will shorten your trip by 3 hours, even more shocked, for a 165 km trip ? As far as I know, it is not an "expressway", but Bangalore-Chennai (340 km) can be done in 4-5 hours in un express speeds. And the toll for this is hardly half of what is proposed for this great expressway. Somebody please justify this one.

First things first. I never justified the price tag. I just said I would nt mind paying that much to go to Agra if they provide expressway like facilities because,

a) The other route (which is a national Highway) takes me through many cities and comes along with enough traffic.

b) The 200 odd Km alternative to this expressway will take me 5 hrs to complete one way. In a day trip that means 10 hrs spent driving.

c) By paying 650 Rs I dont have to face the chaotic traffic, I dont enter any cities, have to face way less traffic.


Secondly. Bangalore-chennai is a national Highway. This is NOT a NH upgraded to expressway.

I hope you can see the difference. If the existing NH between delhi to Agra is upgraded to Expressway standards, that too would have lesser Toll.

Either ways, I am not justifying the Toll. It is on the higher side, although I would nt mind paying it.

Please clarify what news reports are you talking about? Do they mention 3 Hrs on the Expressway or 3 Hrs from Delhi to Taj?

It cannot be 3 Hrs on expressway as the reports here talk of 1.5 - 2 hrs drive. Please recheck. A 165 Kms road with no breaks and intersections cannot take 3 hrs to complete unless you are running in your car.

Yes Delhi to Taj may take 3 hrs as you still need to reach the expressway from Delhi, and reach the Taj from where the Expressway ends in Agra, which is again some 20Kms away.


Thirdly. This expressway is NOT the only alternative to reach Agra. It is not as if the existing highway has been improved and an exorbitant charge is being charged.

For those not willing to pay, there is the National highway 2 which was being used till now.

Hope I made myself clear.

[esteem_lover]

Originally Posted by vibbs

Thirdly. This expressway is NOT the only alternative to reach Agra. It is not as if the existing highway has been improved and an exorbitant charge is being charged.

For those not willing to pay, there is the National highway 2 which was being used till now.

Hope I made myself clear.

You have made yourself very clear.

Why should we create another road and charge exorbitant amount as Toll and say if you can afford it, take it, else take the regular NH and suffer ? Is this not differentiating between the rich and the others ? If the NH is able to help you travel 160 km in 2-3 hours (which BTW is the base for most NHs), then you have a point.

Nothing personal against you vibbs, I am sure this will help ease some traffic off the NH, but I still fail to understand a toll of 320 for a 165 km road, however great it might be.

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

You have made yourself very clear.

Why should we create another road and charge exorbitant amount as Toll and say if you can afford it, take it, else take the regular NH and suffer ? Is this not differentiating between the rich and the others ? If the NH is able to help you travel 160 km in 2-3 hours (which BTW is the base for most NHs), then you have a point.

Nothing personal against you vibbs, I am sure this will help ease some traffic off the NH, but I still fail to understand a toll of 320 for a 165 km road, however great it might be.

See it is not about taking the regular NH and suffering. That is not a panchayat road it is a National Highway.

This is an access controlled alternative to the National highway for people who are willing to pay for superior facilities. Similar to Mumbai - Pune expressway. BTW the toll charges for 93Km long Mumbai Pune expressway is 165 Rs which comes to about Rs 1.77/Km as opposed to Rs 1.93/Km for the yamuna expressway. So by that standards you can say, this is overpriced by about 30 Rs than the Mumbai Pune Expressway.

Then incase you are wondering the hype around this road, this in fact India s longest access controlled 6 Lane expressway. Access control is different from charging tolls. And those reports you said claiming 3 hrs drive time, please check a few posts back, one Bhpian covered the 165 Kms in 1 hr 10 minutes.

Is nt that how it works world over? Access controlled highways are charged more than normal highways for offering superior facilities.

I would prefer to have decent National highways without any Toll and then access controlled expressways for people who want superior facilities. That ways you ensure everybody gets basic road facilities free of cost, unlike in India where one has to pay toll tax even if he is taking the National Highway.

So while this charge may seem high its not too way off in my opinion and my point from the begining has been to compare this road not with any other intracity road or a normal highway, but with other access controlled Expressways in the country, and try to realise the benefits this is going to provide if they manage to maintain the high standards.
Anyways we are going off on a tangent. So lets agree to disagree.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

As a tourist, maybe I would not mind spending (because I am always spending on everything) Rs.640 on a round trip just for using a road for which I have already paid through my road tax. How about a regular person who is travelling between delhi-agra ? I understand that this is a toll road because it will cut my travel time a lot. But 320 for a single journey of 165 kms ??? And we are justifying that even before we got to use it ?? even more shocking.




I am surprised you say this, what are the benefits on this road other than the usual benefits on any other toll roads ? The media is saying that this will shorten your trip by 3 hours, even more shocked, for a 165 km trip ? As far as I know, Bangalore-Chennai (340 km) is not an "expressway", but can be done in 4-5 hours in un express speeds. And Chennai-Pondicherry can be done in 2- 3 hours (same 160km) on the 2 laned ECR or the 4 laned NH 45 without taking any risks other than what will be there in this new expensive expressway with a speed limit of 100 kmph (?). And the toll for this is just 60 odd. Somebody please justify this one.

That is just from what I know, there are plenty like that across India.

esteem_lover I dont know if you have been in North but the existing road infrastructure, esp the highways, are outright pathetic! To give an example, the city of Meerut is just 40-50km from Delhi but it takes a good 2-3 hours (even in off-traffic time) to reach Meerut and this is on a national highway (goes to Dehradun). A drive to Agra from Delhi has to begin at 5/6am in the morning and takes a good 5+ hours for 200 odd kms if you start that early and it is fraught with all the usual dangers - bullock carts coming at you in opposite directions, villages at every 5-6 kms, whole cities having been developed on the highway itself, all sorts of animals etc. Its really very taxing. The city of Agra itself is 8th wonder of the world. i dont know how do people drive there!

I totally welcome any such developments as this expressway. At least it gives an occassional traveler an option over the NH2. I am also not that worried about the toll - there are far more daily use things like eatables whose prices have gone thru the roof. 180 ruppes for a kilo of apples! Thats more worrisome for me. Or 80 rupees for a liter of petrol!

[akshay4587]

With a toll tax of 640,or 510 for a round trip,i am pretty sure,there would be many,who would still prefer to use the old highway,especially people living closer to faridabad,so we can expect,it to have less traffic.
Also,there would be no government run,roadways buses,apart from powerful volvos which can comfortably cruise as high as 125km\hr.
Cant say anything about trucks.

[drmohitg]

This is such a welcome move. After battling numerous issues throughout the way, finally its come up. The only downside according to me is the speed limit of 100 kmph and the slightly steep toll. When will our govt learn that modern cars are built way better and speeds of 120-140 kmph are easily attainable provided there is a good stretch of road like this expressway. Installing speed cameras on the stretch would make it rather irritating to drive since sticking to 100 kmph is going to prove very difficult for most motorists. This is from my personal experience after driving on the vadodara-ahmedabad expressway which too has a speed limit of 100 but no speed cameras .
BTW the toll on the 96 km stretch of vadodara-ahmedabad expressway is Rs 96 or basically Rs. 1/km.

[tanwaramit]

Originally Posted by akshay4587

With a toll tax of 640,or 510 for a round trip,i am pretty sure,there would be many,who would still prefer to use the old highway,especially people living closer to faridabad,so we can expect,it to have less traffic.
Also,there would be no government run,roadways buses,apart from powerful volvos which can comfortably cruise as high as 125km\hr.
Cant say anything about trucks.

There would be government run buses on yamuna expressway too. See this

http://www.livehindustan.com/news/lo...catiopnvalue=1

However, still, as this road is an elevated road with no villages, stoppages on the route, the travel is much smoother, its more than Bombay Pune Expressway OR Ahmedabad-Baroda Expressway.

No doubt it is costly, but convenience comes at a price. Hope big trucks dont run on this as many of these trucks are not maintained well and could be a reason for accidents.
Hope petrol pumps etc are added soon at the three tolls.

[indian21r]

Originally Posted by tanwaramit

However, still, as this road is an elevated road with no villages, stoppages on the route, the travel is much smoother, its more than Bombay Pune Expressway OR Ahmedabad-Baroda Expressway.

The issue with Taj Expressway will be allowing 2 wheelers without a dedicated lane. Having done all the 3 stretches in a Span of 3 days, I can say that not having bikers makes NE1 and MPEW 10x safer.

NE1 is really nice and butter smooth. Safe to do 120 kmph. less than Rs 100 for 90 km
MPEW is a concrete road. Safe for 100-120 kmph. But chances of tyre burst increases . Rs 165 fro 93 km
TAJ - I think it is mix of Bitumen and Concrete, mostly bitumen. 4 lanes would have been great without 2 wheelers. I feel time saved will be totally worth. We took 1.5 hours to drive 60km from Agra to Mathura while Greater Noida to Agra took 100 min @ 110 kmph speed. Official Speed limit is 100 kmph

With respect to Toll, what is the current toll on NH from Delhi till Agra. Rs 320 vs ?? . Should be more than Rs 150 as we paid close to Rs 70 for till Mathura itself.

The best of the lot is currently Hyderabad ORR with boards that mention 120 kmph

[sgiitk]

@indian21r; I think you mean the Yamuna Expressway when you refer to the Taj Expressway. I have no issues with two wheelers as long as land discipline is observed. Buses being allowed does not mean that the Roadways buses will be there.

How about the freeloaders, all the netas, babus and the rest with their blaring sirens,and escorts incapable of hitting even 60 kph! They will try and hog the overtaking lane as well.

[Zenster99]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

Why should we create another road and charge exorbitant amount as Toll and say if you can afford it, take it, else take the regular NH and suffer ? Is this not differentiating between the rich and the others ? If the NH is able to help you travel 160 km in 2-3 hours (which BTW is the base for most NHs), then you have a point.

Nothing personal against you vibbs, I am sure this will help ease some traffic off the NH, but I still fail to understand a toll of 320 for a 165 km road, however great it might be.

Can understand why some are saying the toll is kinda high - I think it's high myself. My initial thoughts upon seeing this Expressway was "Wow, now one can travel from Delhi-Agra without spending more than Rs 1000 on petrol/cng" (I had a petrol Zen with an aftermarket CNG kit - I'm quoting the figures based upon my experiences/mileage that I used to get from my car). And sure, paying Rs 640 DOES make it a bit more expensive.

Is it worth it? I think it would be, if I wanted to see both Agra/Fatehpur Sikri on say a Saturday, and still make it back home with time to spare, and no on-route hassles. But thats a personal choice - for those that disagree, the good old NH (Mathura Road) is always there, replete with cows, villages, tractors and narrow stretches of road in some parts which reduce one's speed to an average of 45-50 km/hr (if even that). . .

Your statement on differentiating between the rich and poor is the one I fail to understand. Does creating better roads (toll roads as the case may be) mean they're created only for the "rich"? To put this another way - does creating domestic airports mean they're created "for the rich" (since the "poor" would travel in trains)? Does NH1, which is a pretty good stretch of road until Ambala, and promises more of the same once the construction uptil Jalandhar is finished signify PROGRESS, or discrimination? I'd say the former, but you appear to be saying the latter.

My own stance on this is that all Indian highways should be upgraded to this level wherever possible. I might not be able to afford to travel on them daily, but I can certainly budget 600 extra rupees for that once in six months trip - and to me, the added expense is WELL worth it!

[SS-Traveller]

Wider than NE1 (Ahmedabad-Baroda), less curvy than the Mumbai-Pune Expressway, decent surface with no surprises at culvert and overbridge road joints, but the surface is rough concrete so tyre noise is high (on the positive side, road grip is excellent even in pouring rain). 2:20 hrs from Agra to home, non-stop with a self-imposed 110 km/h as the max speed limit.

No nilgais or peacocks spotted, around 3 dog roadkills noticed, one live dog strolling on expressway, expected to be dead by evening too. Should be hindrance-free tomorrow!