The Football Thread

[Panko]

Originally Posted by vamsi.kona

It is easy to hold-on to a player who is leaving for money by just offering him more pay. But Fabregas wanted to go to Barca for last two years I believe. He even cut his pay to facilitate the transfer. Wenger should have been preparing for this. What came as surprise was the exit of Nasri.

In fact, it's other way round. Nasri was already in the last year of his contract at Emirates and was not going to renew. So it was obvious that, instead of letting player go in a market as a free agent next year, Arsenal would sale him and get as much as they can.

[naveenroy]

Originally Posted by varun.ppl

Thanks for watching Arsenal. I am garnering more supporters for Arsenal on a daily basis.

Arsenal are attack minded but nowadays they are suffering a lot in the defense paradigm. So, we do not see a lot of flowing game, counter-attacks as such which was a treat to the eyes during 2001-2005. Maybe you should check out older videos of Arsenal.

You have another fan of Arsenal here! Yeah, loved their control of the ball, passing in tight places etc. But well, they are defensively weaker now so don't see very confident movement in the forwards these days.

Originally Posted by Panko

Yeah. That's true. I am a Chelsea fan and hardly find any Chelsea fans around.

I also admire Arsenal and their style of play. Free-flowing football. Great to watch. They are suffering due to mass-exodus of key players. But no need to panic, they will rise. Now they have few experienced lads in their line-up. They were quite invincible in the era of Henry and Bergkamp. Wenger is a great tactician. They should not have let go of Fabregas even though there was a great pressure from Barca. Also, the transfer price was too low and Barca was dictating the terms (instead of Arsenal). Look at the way Tottenham's firm rejection to sale Modric to Chelsea. But gunners' management and Wenger are rare gentlemen in the football-world today. Wishing gunners all the best for the season.

Kind words! Yeah I too believe they will rise but this season is going to be tough and don't think we will end up doing well. But caman the next season!

Well said about Wenger - one of the main reasons I love Arsenal. The professor is just awesome. Total Football!!

[Panko]

Originally Posted by naveenroy

You have another fan of Arsenal here! Yeah, loved their control of the ball, passing in tight places etc. But well, they are defensively weaker now so don't see very confident movement in the forwards these days.

Recent signing of Mertesacker is a masterstroke. He is one of the best defenders available. He can marshal the defense with the help of young guns. I would have loved to see him in Chelsea's central defense along with Luiz.

[Saanil]

I hate such games when the better team does not win! Football is indeed an unfair game. Manutd will be happy they got a point at Anfield. Liverpool transform into all together a different team against Manutd. First half was plain boring! The second half had all the action. Gerrard scored thanks to Giggs! Another header goal for Hernandez (Gosh I hate such goals). De Gea was Manutd's best player. He made some really brilliant saves!

[vamsi.kona]

Originally Posted by Panko

In fact, it's other way round. Nasri was already in the last year of his contract at Emirates and was not going to renew. So it was obvious that, instead of letting player go in a market as a free agent next year, Arsenal would sale him and get as much as they can.

Yes, but it was expected that the contract would be renewed, which was not the case.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by Saanil

I hate such games when the better team does not win! Football is indeed an unfair game. Manutd will be happy they got a point at Anfield. Liverpool transform into all together a different team against Manutd. First half was plain boring! The second half had all the action. Gerrard scored thanks to Giggs! Another header goal for Hernandez (Gosh I hate such goals). De Gea was Manutd's best player. He made some really brilliant saves!

haha. this was a game were fergie's gameplan was not to lose, given our last 3 outings there. I think utd would be happy with a point. most of our players were away on international duty and often it takes time to get the rhythm back. in addition we had 4 difficult games in 2 weeks - starting with Liverpool away, next in line are CL away tie (which is a must win right now), City away (which again is more important than liverpool as city are direct league rivals - pool are NOT! haha), and then Everton. We'll then have an extended lean time where we can pick up points as well as improve goals tally.

By the way, good showing by pool. But and importantly, still not good enough to beat a very disjointed utd side at home!!!

[vb-san]

It was a pretty good show by Liverpool, but a bit disappointed as they had enough chances to grab all three points. I did not understand why Man U started off with such a negative team selection.

[addyhemmige]

I guess SAF did not have the confidence that they could come off with something. He was determined to come off with a point (at least) and he did. Probably this was the most boring Liverpool-ManU match in recent times. Awesome cracker of a goal from Gerrard btw.

Whats with Manchester City? It seems they are scoring goals for fun

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by addyhemmige

I guess SAF did not have the confidence that they could come off with something. He was determined to come off with a point (at least) and he did. Probably this was the most boring Liverpool-ManU match in recent times. Awesome cracker of a goal from Gerrard btw.

Its not about having confidence for a game! League is a marathon, you have to plan to win. You cannot go all guns blazing all the year around. Of all people, SAF knows that at least, having won the league 12 times out of last 19! We have 4 difficult games (at least 2 must win) in 2 weeks time plus most of the players were coming back from international duty. Chicharito was coming back from Brazil, Nani played for Portugal, Rooney had his own problems (with his dad and with the red card for Eng - he might not play in Euros next year at all! imagine his mental state right now). Similarly Vidic's team (serbia) lost out making to Euros next year (and he missed a penalty that wud have ensured at least play-off place and another chance to qualify). Given all these parameters (4 of our most important players not starting), SAF handled Liverpool very well. The team was out not to lose, soemthing they achieved. Had it not been for Adam's theatrics in winning the free kick (how was that a foul) we could have won. Liverpool were at their strongest, while United missed half of their team still Pool couldnt win!!!

I'd say it was a good point to win (1 point can win you the league - look at 2010 results) for United. Anfield is not where you can go all guns blazing - Even Barca cant. (Last year Real went to Barca and tried to play them - result a 5-0 drubbing.)

And this was still a very youthful united side - GK less then 20 yo, lead striker less than 21, Evans Smalling and Jones the other youngsters. It was a good outing for them as well. This is pretty much a transition year for us - we lost players like VDS, Scholes, Neville, even Rio is not the same, new players have come in like Welbeck, Jones, Smalling, Evans, Cleaverly. They all deserve at least a season to bed in and prove themselves. In fact I do not think it'll be easy for united this season. It would be incredible if we win the league, for this pretty much a season of transition. Even Ronaldo & Co. took about 3 years to get going and winning things!

[Panko]

Chelsea did not play good football. But, still managed to win comfortably (3-1) against Everton, who could be tricky opponents. While everyone is gung-ho about two Manchester Clubs, Chelsea slowly but surely are strengthening their position in the league. Others can ignore Chelsea only at their own peril!

[Panko]

Originally Posted by joslicx

This is pretty much a transition year for us - we lost players like VDS, Scholes, Neville, even Rio is not the same, new players have come in like Welbeck, Jones, Smalling, Evans, Cleaverly. They all deserve at least a season to bed in and prove themselves. In fact I do not think it'll be easy for united this season. It would be incredible if we win the league, for this pretty much a season of transition. Even Ronaldo & Co. took about 3 years to get going and winning things!

In fact, most of the bigger teams are under transition phase this season:
-Manchester City
-Chelsea
-Liverpool
-Arsenal

So, this cannot be the reason(or excuse) for any of the big teams to perform poorly.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by Panko

In fact, most of the bigger teams are under transition phase this season:
-Manchester City
-Chelsea
-Liverpool
-Arsenal

So, this cannot be the reason(or excuse) for any of the big teams to perform poorly.

Agree about Liverpool and Arsenal but how on earth are Man City and Chelsea under transition???

Man City were already a very strong team last year (finished in top 4) and then added the likes of Aguero and Nasri (both already world class and established players). They have like 2 world class players in every position on the pitch (except GK). How many youngsters (20-21 year old starters) do City play in their team ??? I'd like to know some names.

Similarly Chelsea already have a great and experienced squad and they have added Torres, Ruiz, Ramires, Mata to their squad to their in last 1 year. These are not juveniles. These are all established pros (Torres, Ruiz and Mata are already world class and multiple winners). Again the only youngster Chelsea are playing is Sturridge. Otherwise they are a very solid, experienced team. (Maybe their manager is in transition, being a relative youngster).

Utd lost a lot of experience in this summer. apart from Scholes, VDS, Neville, we've also lost the likes of Brown, O'shea who were all multiple winners and generally very experienced. These are replaced by the likes of 19 yo Jones, 20 yo De Gea, 19yo Smalling, 21 yo Evans, 22 yo Cleaverly and 19 yo Welbeck. Half of utd new team is brand new youngsters (they are first time starters for utd). Young players tend to be more inconsistent (compared to world class starters - who are world class only because they are consistent). The same can be said of Arsenal - they lost Nasri and Febregas and also Wilshere to long term injury. They added some experience in Per and Arteta but not enough, and core of their side is still very young. Liverpool change their team every year so they are always in transition but still tjhey are pretty formidable at home. Utd themselves are pretty formidable at home (last season 0 losses, only 1 draw and beat all top teams at home!)

[Panko]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Agree about Liverpool and Arsenal but how on earth are Man City and Chelsea under transition???

Buying the world-class players does not mean the team will immediately start yielding great results. It takes time to create team-chemistry. And it is difficult to create the chemistry between established stars (overcoming their egos is difficult task. Look at Tevez saga) compared to potential stars. City has adopted completely different approach this season.

Chelsea have changed the style of their play under AVB. They are rebuilding their side for future with the new signings. It will need some time too.
And who had stopped United from buying the established players? Also, as you have mentioned, if they really needed Brown and O'shea, they should not have sold them in the first place.

What I wish to say is - If it is transition for United, then it is the same for other top clubs. And at professional level, there is no excuse for bad performance. It applies to every club.

[addyhemmige]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Its not about having confidence for a game! League is a marathon, you have to plan to win. You cannot go all guns blazing all the year around. Of all people, SAF knows that at least, having won the league 12 times out of last 19! We have 4 difficult games (at least 2 must win) in 2 weeks time plus most of the players were coming back from international duty

I'm not questioning what SAF knows or does not know nor am I questioning his tactics. Nobody wants to lose any game however long a league is. All I'm telling is that SAF was determined to come out with at least a point if not 3. I felt that he was really keen on safeguarding his one point rather than go for 3.

Originally Posted by joslicx

Chicharito was coming back from Brazil, Nani played for Portugal, Rooney had his own problems (with his dad and with the red card for Eng - he might not play in Euros next year at all! imagine his mental state right now). Similarly Vidic's team (serbia) lost out making to Euros next year (and he missed a penalty that wud have ensured at least play-off place and another chance to qualify). Given all these parameters (4 of our most important players not starting),

Liverpool were at their strongest, while United missed half of their team still Pool couldnt win!!!

Hmmm. Is it Liverpool's fault that most of your senior players have retired/suspended/tired/whatever etc etc etc just before this game? Liverpool certainly did not ask SAF to field a half strength team. A team can play only the guys who are on the field. This was not a match between Liverpool FC and Manchester United FC Reserves (or Half strength side). This was a match between Liverpool FC and Manchester United FC.

Maybe Liverpool would have won handsomely if SAF had fielded a full strength side, who knows???

Originally Posted by joslicx

The team was out not to lose, soemthing they achieved

That is exactly what I meant in my previous post

Originally Posted by Panko

And at professional level, there is no excuse for bad performance. It applies to every club.

True

[vb-san]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Utd lost a lot of experience in this summer. apart from Scholes, VDS, Neville, we've also lost the likes of Brown, O'shea who were all multiple winners and generally very experienced.

Sorry, of the names mentioned above I feel only VDS will be the one Man U will really miss. But then, De Gea was their best player against Liverpool.

Neville was only a name for past couple of years, Wes Brown and O’shea were always glorified substitutes, and Scholes was way past his prime. I
guess the plain fact is Liverpool was a better team on Saturday.

Even though, I root for Liverpool, I have to admit that I am greatly impressed by De Gea’s resistance and the massive goal by Hernandez

Originally Posted by addyhemmige

Maybe Liverpool would have won handsomely if SAF had fielded a full strength side, who knows?

I do feel the same.

First of all, I don’t think it was a weakened side from Man U. Traditionally, in big games like this, Sir Alex have this habit of fielding players like Fletcher, Giggs, Park etc. instead of the likes of Nanis and Andrersons. I think a forced exclusion was only Rooney.