[saildrive]

Have been reading about RvP departure for quite a while and the inevitable happened late last night.

Interesting article about the painful saga about RvP and how we need to cope up and voices the same emotions that I, another die-hard gunner am going through, RVP: Pain, anger...and pride - The Marble Halls

In hindsight if you look at the setup of the top 4 teams in EPL - almost every team has atleast two to three world class player playing for them. ManU (hate them) Rooney and RvP (now). Chelsea (Mata, Terry, Lampard), ManC (too many to name) Arsenal (no one except Podolski perhaps).

And as indicated above; in my heart of hearts I have another sore feeling that we will not be able to fill our drought ridden trophy cabinet for the eight year running!

But like a hopeless romantic will be glued to the idiot box for each and every match that my team plays; whatever time in the day or night it may be

[naveenroy]

Originally Posted by saildrive

And as indicated above; in my heart of hearts I have another sore feeling that we will not be able to fill our drought ridden trophy cabinet for the eight year running!

But like a hopeless romantic will be glued to the idiot box for each and every match that my team plays; whatever time in the day or night it may be

Yup - same feeling here. But nothing is going to change. Its the badge in the front of the jersey - not the name on the back!

[nfsfreak]

United desperately needed a World class Midfielder but went for RVP. Could not understand their logic though. I hate to see our best player last season playing for United this season :(

It becomes a habit for Arsenal to sell their captain (4th one in last 7 years) but at least, Arsenal Board & Wenger learnt from their past season mistakes and have their bases covered this time with three very good signings in Podolski, Giroud & Cazorla.
Hope they add a mid fielder (Sahin or M'Villa) to complete midfield which may lack the service from Jack Wilshere for another 2-3 months (I wonder when he'll be back and will he be the same ever?).
Arsenal had a real chance this time had RVP opted to stay but with RVP gone now, not much hope for a trophy nevertheless will not miss a single match as we really have some exciting players to watch.

Gunners forever

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by nfsfreak

United desperately needed a World class Midfielder but went for RVP. Could not understand their logic though. I hate to see our best player last season playing for United this season :(

the logic is pretty simple really. A forward force like RVP was very much needed at Man Utd to compete in CL. League is not what he is bought for. Fergie can still win the league with much inferior players than what he has.

In Europe though the 4-4-2 that united normally play is not much useful. Almost all big teams play three in the middle and that means the two midfielders united play dont measure upto them. Hence the problems seen last season.

Now we can play RVP upfront as the focal point of the attack. As good as Rooney was, he does not have the discipline to play alone upfront, and it was more evident in europe where possession is scarce and his frustrations meant he would drop down in midfield and we often had no presence in the box. Now we can play the continental 4-2-3-1 with rvp supported by three of Rooney, kagawa, nani, young and valencia. And two CMs behind them from scholes, cleverley, carrick, anderson, giggs etc plus fletcher might be back. Its pretty good actually.

Despite what most people think, united will not buy a world class mid. Fergie does not have a good history of buying midfielders (he has a thing for forwards and wingers) and united do not play thru the middle really. We play more from the flanks. I dont think we will see any more midfielders coming.

Actually if you see united have one of the most flexible squads out there. we have personnel to play variety of formations like 4-3-3, our traditional strength 4-4-2, 4-3-2-1, 4-2-3-1, 4-4-1-1, 4-2-2-2 etc. Not many teams out there can boast that.

[nfsfreak]

Originally Posted by joslicx

the logic is pretty simple really. A forward force like RVP was very much needed at Man Utd to compete in CL. League is not what he is bought for. .......

Well, RVP may be the best but Chicharito & Welbeck are exciting & reliable talents and good finishers. Buying RVP really could hinder the development of both these players. Not to mention Berbatov (top league scorer in 2010-2011 season) who is almost forgotten in United camp for no good reason.
While RVP & Rooney combination is exciting & frightening, RVP is not what United need desperately. If Fergie wanted to adapt new tactics in CL, he should have purchased a proven midfielder instead. Strikeforce is something Fergie is already blessed with.

If you see last season, they did not find hard to score against any opponent (almost 90 goals in 36 games in EPL alone). In fact, they quite struggled not to leak goals because no one can hold the play longer. Even in CL, they lacked someone who can lead the midfield.

you need someone like Modric/Sneijder type of player who can dictate the play in middle. With Giggs is as old as various coaches in EPL, Carrick & Fletcher quite injury prone - midfield is the one he should have concentrated.
While kagawa is a great player, he mainly plays behind the striker and not the one who can control the midfield. Fergie should have gone for Hazard or Modric (even Moura) but its late now. At least, he could have tried for Sneijder this season.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by joslicx

He is solely the reason why Arsenal will play in Europe this year! Arsene Wenger's biggest fault was that he couldnt recruit a capable striker to share the load with RVP hence we was overused and broke down frequently earlier. At united he wont have that problem.

I think Fergie has recruited RVP more for Europe than league. PL is like his toy, he could win it even with worst team imaginable! In Europe though, you cannot play two strikers upfront (because that means only two midfielders and most top teams play with 3 in the middle). I think RVP will play upfront on his own in CL this season. Rooney and Kagawa/Nani might support him and then maybe three central midfielders to anchor. On just like other top continental teams he can play 4-2-3-1 with RVP at the top, Rooney + Kagawa + Nani in support and two central mids behind.

Agree with your points. But this is beneficial for Arsenal is two ways - (1) Cash-in on RVP’s recent form, rather than letting him go as a free-agent next season, and (2) no point in keeping an unhappy player, however good he maybe.

Secondly, I have my doubts on RVP carrying the same form to United. Last season he flourished as the centre of attraction in Arsenal, but things maybe a bit different in his new club. Working along with similar players (who aim for similar glory) maybe a bit different from the Arsenal culture.

On a lighter note, Mr. Wenger should shield his top players away from club captaincy (this is the 4th captain exiting in a row), or probably make Arshavin the captain

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by nfsfreak

Well, RVP may be the best but Chicharito & Welbeck are exciting & reliable talents and good finishers. Buying RVP really could hinder the development of both these players. Not to mention Berbatov (top league scorer in 2010-2011 season) who is almost forgotten in United camp for no good reason.

Well, the reliability of welbeck and chicha can be debated. Both are still very young. And fergie has no confidence left in Berba (he is a failure at OT as far as I am concerned) he has no pace and cannot play upfront on his own and has not been able to form a partnership with rooney. Fergie likes to have 4 strikers, at least two of them world class. hence the flirtation with rvp once he was made available. we now have two world class forwards and two very good understudies to take care in case of injuries/suspensions etc.

Also one more thing is - rvp is a very good set piece specialist. united do not have any such player since departure of ronaldo. rvp will be very valuable with free kicks.

While RVP & Rooney combination is exciting & frightening, RVP is not what United need desperately. If Fergie wanted to adapt new tactics in CL, he should have purchased a proven midfielder instead. Strikeforce is something Fergie is already blessed with.

if you look at midfielders at OT under fergie, his record with big name midfield signings has been very patchy - last success was a certain roy keane!!! Fergie is no arsene in this respect. he is only good with forwards and wingers.

If you see last season, they did not find hard to score against any opponent (almost 90 goals in 36 games in EPL alone). In fact, they quite struggled not to leak goals because no one can hold the play longer. Even in CL, they lacked someone who can lead the midfield.

you need someone like Modric/Sneijder type of player who can dictate the play in middle. With Giggs is as old as various coaches in EPL, Carrick & Fletcher quite injury prone - midfield is the one he should have concentrated.
While kagawa is a great player, he mainly plays behind the striker and not the one who can control the midfield. Fergie should have gone for Hazard or Modric (even Moura) but its late now. At least, he could have tried for Sneijder this season.

As I said earlier unlike Barca or Arsenal united do NOT play thru the middle hence midfield is not that big an issue. surely we cannot match the likes of Barca or Real but there are no midfielders available in the world that can help us reach their level. Hazard is a winger, not a central mid. Same as Moura also. I think Fergie was interested in Moura more as Nani replacement (Nani is stalling over high wages - with Moura wages wouldnt have been high hence savings). Modric is the one who will fit here but Spurs quoted 50m for him so he is out of our reach. sneijder also high price and high wages were a problem though he is the perfect scholes replacement. but he was out of sorts last season at inter and now not on fergie's radar.

rvp is still big loss for arsenal (can podolski or frech fella promise 30 goals this season? i dont think so). plus he was fairly creative forward as well. lets see how this season folds out. cant wait for the weekend.

[deetjohn]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Arsenal captain joining Man Utd!!!

24m for third best player in the world last season is terrific piece of business by Sir Alex. I cannot wait to see how well he can link up with Rooney. Potentially it can be the most lethal partnership in world football.

How do my fellow Gunners feel today

I don't know whether we can call it a terrific piece of business. Surprisingly, there was very limited interest from other clubs on Robin after he released that rather shameful post on his site. And Arsenal had no choice but to sell after that. So I wonder why United paid so much for an 29 year old player on his last year of contract.

And don't forget the 200, 000 GBP per week for the next four years. That alone will be more than 40 M GBP.

But no doubt, United got a great player if they can keep him fit. And that's a big If.

Yeah that pretty much sums up how I feel. Looking forward to this Saturday with Santi Cazorla in the middle.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

I don't know whether we can call it a terrific piece of business. Surprisingly, there was very limited interest from other clubs on Robin after he released that rather shameful post on his site. And Arsenal had no choice but to sell after that. So I wonder why United paid so much for an 29 year old player on his last year of contract.

And don't forget the 200, 000 GBP per week for the next four years. That alone will be more than 40 M GBP.

But no doubt, United got a great player if they can keep him fit. And that's a big If.

Yeah that pretty much sums up how I feel. Looking forward to this Saturday with Santi Cazorla in the middle.

well deetjohn I dont know how you, as a fan, can call it "fantastic peice of business" for Arsenal!!! I mean just 24m for the best No. 9 on earth and a player in his prime!! Thats why Arsenal dont win anything these days... Too busy making money?? You just dont sell your best players. It should not have come down to this - rvp having only one year left on his contract. You dont see that at any other club really. These days even unproven 18 year olds are going for 30+ mil!!! rvp is a bargain really!

I dont care what he costs united. As fans we want our clubs to win titles, not to just make money for the owners who might or might not care. Frankly wouldnt you just want him to lead you guys to a league title rather than collecting 24m? i thought by now arsenal fans would have gotten sick of all this profiteering business. makes the club look like a feeder club for the real biggies.

[deetjohn]

Originally Posted by joslicx

well deetjohn I dont know how you, as a fan, can call it "fantastic peice of business" for Arsenal!!! I mean just 24m for the best No. 9 on earth and a player in his prime!! Thats why Arsenal dont win anything these days... Too busy making money?? You just dont sell your best players. It should not have come down to this - rvp having only one year left on his contract. You dont see that at any other club really. These days even unproven 18 year olds are going for 30+ mil!!! rvp is a bargain really!

I dont care what he costs united. As fans we want our clubs to win titles, not to just make money for the owners who might or might not care. Frankly wouldnt you just want him to lead you guys to a league title rather than collecting 24m? i thought by now arsenal fans would have gotten sick of all this profiteering business. makes the club look like a feeder club for the real biggies.

Wow! Where did I write it was a 'Fantastic' piece of business by Arsenal?

Don't get me wrong. I didn't want this to happen. But Arsenal had no option but to sell. So, I think United had the upper hand in the transfer but paid over odds. Maybe it is Sir Alex' last throw of dice to wrestle the title back from the blue side of Manchester.

And please don't be oblivious to the financial side of football. I think that's the biggest threat ManU is facing. There is big debt and the Glazers' are draining money out, even the last flotation at NY was just that. SAF is the one who is keeping it all together and I fear how long it is going to go like that.

Coming back to Arsenal, I personally believe we have a strong squad at this juncture when compared to last season. So I am looking forward to the season.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

Wow! Where did I write it was a 'Fantastic' piece of business by Arsenal?

Don't get me wrong. I didn't want this to happen. But Arsenal had no option but to sell. So, I think United had the upper hand in the transfer but paid over odds. Maybe it is Sir Alex' last throw of dice to wrestle the title back from the blue side of Manchester.

And please don't be oblivious to the financial side of football. I think that's the biggest threat ManU is facing. There is big debt and the Glazers' are draining money out, even the last flotation at NY was just that. SAF is the one who is keeping it all together and I fear how long it is going to go like that.

Coming back to Arsenal, I personally believe we have a strong squad at this juncture when compared to last season. So I am looking forward to the season.

Oops my bad. I misunderstood probably.

I just had a look at RVPs stats and he has 277 appearances for Arsenal in his 8 years there (so an average of about 35 per season - not bad) and he scored 132 goals and has 62 assists for them. I dont know how he is so injury prone - he has had 6 seasons with Arsenal when he appeared in more than 30 games.

The money part is interesting. See Man Utd make massive profits. For this year itself, so far for 9 months the profits as per financials are about 50m pounds so they can very much spend that kind of money on RVP. The new GM deal will make lot more money as well as the new merchandising deal that will be coming up. Glazers also have one more ace up their sleeve - stadium naming rights. There are talks of naming rights upto 1 billion dollars over 20 years!! the debts are miniscule in comparison and can easily be serviced if they want (but they want debts as the interest paymets offset any taxes to be paid)

In any case I am happy for the signing as otherwise that money would have ended up in Glazers pockets only! Better that is invested in the squad. I dont care if Glazers make profit or loss. I care only for united winning titles or being among top teams on earth.

[zoombiee]

Originally Posted by joslicx

In Europe though the 4-4-2 that united normally play is not much useful. Almost all big teams play three in the middle and that means the two midfielders united play dont measure upto them. Hence the problems seen last season.

They have 3 big problems -
1 -> Holding midfielder. Owen Hargreaves was supposed to be their holding midfielder. They have not been able to find any other holding midfielder.
2 -> Playmaker - Scholes was their main play maker. With him in his twilight, they need a replacement. Kagawa may fill in shoes
3 -> Rio Ferdinand - He needs to be offloaded and Evans-Vidic should be the first choice defenders.

[mithunkb]

Originally Posted by zoombiee

They have 3 big problems -
1 -> Holding midfielder. Owen Hargreaves was supposed to be their holding midfielder. They have not been able to find any other holding midfielder.
2 -> Playmaker - Scholes was their main play maker. With him in his twilight, they need a replacement. Kagawa may fill in shoes
3 -> Rio Ferdinand - He needs to be offloaded and Evans-Vidic should be the first choice defenders.

And
4) Patrice Evra : Although he can play 40 matches a season , his defensive skills are defenitely going down. And having loaned the second choice LB, Fabio to QPR , an injury to Evra will be a severe blow to the defence. Phil Jones and Chris Smalling are out for 1 and 2 months respectively.

Leighton Baines will provide a short term solution but ManUnited are unlikely to open the checkbooks for him this season.

[anachronix]

Sorry to all the Arsenal fans, but here is a picture that wasnt taken too long back!

[Saanil]

EPL is back! I was eagerly waiting for tonight’s match of Arsenal. Highlights of today’s action:

Liverpool continue with their form from last season (or the lack of it). As far as I saw they were good in the 1st half but they just crumbled in the 2nd half. All players seem terribly short of confidence. The new manager is already under a huge pressure and this will just add to it.

Arsenal too continued their form from the last season – dominating possession but still nothing to show on the score-sheet. The single most positive thing about the game was Cazorla – This guy has shades of Fabregas in his play (his movements/his passes). Giroud had an excellent chance but missed it. Podolski looked lost to me and seems he still needs more matches under his belt. The defenders had little to show because Sunderland were only interested in defending. There were some nervy moments at the back for Arsenal. We need Koscielny and Sagna back soon. Mertesecker is good only as a back-up for me. Jenkinson was ok for me too – would have liked him to provide more crosses. Song’s absence suggests he will be making the move to Barcelona (announcement should be out by tonight). Diaby too looks rusty. All in all – happy with a point.

All eyes will definitely be on Monday’s match. It would be interesting to see how SAF uses Master Wayne and Robin (Too much of Dark Knight!). Also Spurs match to start in a few minutes.