[Jai3033]

Has anyone had a ICL (Implantable Contact Lens) surgery done or know someone who has undergone this procedure? This is suitable for someone who is not a candidate for Lasik surgery. My doctor suggested ICL because my corneas were too thin so I have just put this idea on hold till I am confident enough.

[quickdraw]

Hi, I am also planning to undergo Laser eye correction surgery soon and maybe Doc and a few other guys can give me some heads up and answer some of my queries.

I have done a lot of research online and have read about the risks and the problems that might develop. So here are the few stupid questions that I have in mind.

Someone here mentioned that the flap never heals (like becomes normal again) and can dislodged if I ever scratch my eyes (years after surgery) is that true?

What are the chances of the microkeretome screwing up, I hate that damned little thing.

I was reading about lasers and apparently the WaveFront laser is the best? Because its technologically more advanced and can follow the eye movements faster during the OP procedure?

Any comments on Shroff Hospital in Mumbai they are charging a lot but boldly mention their WaveFront laser is far advanced then the others?

I've been wearing Spects almost all my life and suffer for astigmatism and myopia. I am sick of wearing contact lenses as by eyening my eyes start burning up (even with monthly disposable B&L Softlens 66 Toric)

Some of my really *dumb* friends have gotten LASIK done without ever really understanding it, but today are fit and fine with no issues faced whatever. So this is really really tempting for me.

[Sam Kapasi]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

Some of my really *dumb* friends have gotten LASIK done without ever really understanding it, but today are fit and fine with no issues faced whatever. So this is really really tempting for me.

Count me in that list of dumb people who had the procedure done and are absolutely fine with no issues whatsoever.

[aakash69]

@Sam,
First off dude, just one word for all the efforts you have taken to post your first hand exp. here AWESOME!!! Really man, I really appreciate what you have just done here. Its kinda enlightening people here like me about this LASIK thing everybody keeps taking about.
Seriously man, I know exactly what you mean when you said you couldn't wear those cool glares or looked a bit un-cool with those glasses on your nose all the time. Been through that many a times(called me four-eyes, they did). The reason I decided to go for lenses. Hated those glasses like hell. But I have been on lenses for the last 5-6 yrs & had to change them only once, that was last year. I am quite satisfied with these lenses(B&L). I know, its quite a cumbersome task to carry Renu(pronounced it as renu..not renew lolz..anyways thanks again for the info.) everywhere I go, but now I have got used to it.
Talking of LASIK now, seriously guys, I can watch Evil Dead three times in a row, all the SAW prequels at a stretch while having my dinner, but getting a piece of my eye cut & then lifted just to be operated, a serious no-no at the moment.GOD no..
(just for the records, I have watched SAW nearly 50 times).
So now I am sticking to my lenses, but once again a generous thanks to Mr. Sam Kapasi.

Cheers

Girish K

[DocG]

** Something that I felt needs to be addressed sooner than later.
There is an unbelievable trend that has sprung up in recent years. Patients today are armed with more than their wallets when they enter a hospital/clinic. A trend that has now spread to India. Patients today walk into a doctor's office with print-outs of various information they have gathered over a few days on their symptoms or their elective procedure.

What I love however is the notion on their part that they are now an authority having read some "facts" they found on the web, or some research trials etc. on the topic.

Nothing can piss off a doctor more than having a patient in his office trying to modify the treatment plan based on information he thinks he knows!

The reason I brought this up is that it's important to realize that there are pros and cons to any treatment or procedure. Half the drugs we take including Paracetamol (Crocin) have severe side effects. But does that mean that we stay away from all of that? No we can work around it, negate it, calculate the relative risk...

Erythromycin is still a wonder-drug here in India. Discontinued in many developed countries, it still finds use here in India. Yes it can cause liver failure in 5% cases, but there is no other antibiotic as cost effective for use in our overly conservative and economically conscious environment...At a little under 1 ruppee a tablet, it works out better to treat a poor man's infection than worry about a 5% risk of liver failure...

The point I'm trying to drive home is that before you come up with your own notions on anything here, please do consult with a doctor. They are there for a reason...

TBhp anology - You wouldn't spend on ICE without consulting the gurus, you wouldn't try to modify your engine without consulting the tuners...Same thing

[Sam Kapasi]

Originally Posted by DocG

What I love however is the notion on their part that they are now an authority having read some "facts" they found on the web, or some research trials etc. on the topic.

Amen to that. Couldn't agree with you more.

I understand perfectly. but some of us spend half our lives studying electronics and the other half installing car audio. Often somebody who buys a pair of speakers and does a bit of reading on the internet becomes a self-styled and self-proclaimed guru of ICE overnight.

I understand perfectly well.

[tsk1979]

Agree with you DocG!
There are so many threads on TBHP where laymen are rendering medical advice!

[blacmagic]

around this time last year, I had grown so sick of my glasses that I walked into the most reputed eye hospital in the area to get myself checked for LASIK eligibility.everything came back green. that night, I dug deeper than before into Google about LASIK because it was the point of no return. most of the stuff that makes up LASIK horror stories is more the result of hacks who want to make a quick buck.
however, something I came across did plant a very little doubt in my mind and I pulled out.
what it said was that once the corneal flap is put back in place, the incision never heals completely - as in 100 percent. the maximum strength it can reach after its put back in place is something like 1 percent.

Sam, its this I need your take on since youve been through it and like me, like to squeeze your eyes a lot from what I read. have you had towatch the squeeze reflex after your vision completely came back to normal? do you engage in strenuous activity - I mean swimming, etc. - with no problems or discomfort?

flap detachment is the only thing that concerns me. the doctor here is top notch but even the best doctor cannot influence the laws of suction and surface tension - which is what heals the cut flap.

Sam, your response would be highly appreciated. despite the glasses being Zeiss nd horribly expensive, they are still a royal pain.

[Sam Kapasi]

Originally Posted by blacmagic

Sam, its this I need your take on since youve been through it and like me, like to squeeze your eyes a lot from what I read. have you had towatch the squeeze reflex after your vision completely came back to normal? do you engage in strenuous activity - I mean swimming, etc. - with no problems or discomfort?
Sam, your response would be highly appreciated. .

SIR!

I am most curious to know where was the part you read that told you that I squeeze my eyes a lot, lol, even I want to read this part.

That said I squeeze my eyes a lot.

You see my better half is a torturing monster and the suffering I go through does make me cringe and squeeze my eyes repeatedly.

Sometimes when we wake up in the morning, Jenny squeezes fresh lemon juice into my eyes as she holds down my struggling arms and legs. In order to avoid waking up and disturbing the neighbours she often rolls up some underwear and straps it across my screaming mouth. These Germans think of everything.

Through it all, my vision has served me well and I am able to recognise her lovely face almost every evening.

I swim sometimes. However other nocturnal strenuous activities (with the torturing monster) also make me clench and squeeze a lot. Yet after the act is over my eyes are able to indeed verify that it is her.

I live a normal life as you can see and my eyes are perfectly fine. I do not worry about them or the flap or anything else. I have never had any discomfort. Except for the time when Jenny punched me and my left eye turned black for 3 days.

I hope I have helped.

[Thad E Ginathom]

I agree with DocG too. Over on my other favourite forum, IndiaMike, we get really fed up with people posting requests for medical advice. They repeatedly want to know if they need to take anti-malarial medication, if they really have to get the range of immunisation recommended by foreign authorities for travel in India --- and they even post that they are ill, list their symptoms and ask what they should do about it! Err... ever heard of doctors? Surprisingly, we have them in India too! Many travellers seem either not to realise that!

On the other hand, I believe that we should also take responsibility for our own treatment. I never take any medication without doing some research on the internet.

There is a history that explanation from many doctors does not go any further than "take these pills". There is also a history that many patients judge how good a doctor is by how many items are on the prescription --- and then ignore his instructions as to the dosage and length of the course!

My wife (along with many other people I've known) has a tendency simply not to return to a doctor if she does not like the effect of drugs he has prescribed. I cannot persuade her that, along with the training, the science and the experience, there has to be a certain amount of trial-and-error, and if she does not go back and talk about the success/failure/side-effects, she is simply being unfair to the doc.

I don't know if it is because I'm foreign, or simply that I've known my doctor for a long time, but I get a full lecture from him every time; I cannot complain that he does not inform me!

Another doctor in a small local hospital (I was too ill to travel anywhere else) was treating me for suspected malaria (it wasn't, in the end) and, was really surprised to find that I knew even a little about the drugs, and was interested to discuss them.

We should be informed. We have the right to accept or not accept advice. But, I do not even go to the doctor unless I have reached a point where I cannot make myself well, so I am putting myself in the hands of a professional, and an amount of trust is involved. If not, why am I wasting my money on his fee?



Sam... when you had your op, and they fixed that flap, did you go for the ordinary screws, the stainless screws, or the diamond-headed titanium screws for added eye sparkle?

[Sam Kapasi]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Sam... when you had your op, and they fixed that flap, did you go for the ordinary screws, the stainless screws, or the diamond-headed titanium screws for added eye sparkle?

He just put a drop of spit and slammed it shut! I think I've been screwed!

[blacmagic]

elementary my dear Watson! I applied my superior skills of inference, extrapolated the contents of your posts and came to the conclusion that you squeeze your eyes a lot. dont worry, I havent been spying on you OR your better half.

that aside, you've been very helpful. now I should be able to go under the kerato-whatsitsname with confidence.

here's wishing you a lot more tortured and copious amounts of nocurnal strenuous activity and a strong flap.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

Count me in that list of dumb people who had the procedure done and are absolutely fine with no issues whatsoever.

I cant actually, because after reading your Yeti (I am on a mac so cant put the trademark sign dont know the shortcut) story I could see that you had many prior consults. Discussed with the doctor about the procedure and were careful for post OP care as well. The people I am talking about dont even know what happened. All they know is it was a "Laser se operation kara hai, nothing can go wrong"

Originally Posted by DocG

** Something that I felt needs to be addressed sooner than later.
There is an unbelievable trend that has sprung up in recent years. Patients today are armed with more than their wallets when they enter a hospital/clinic. A trend that has now spread to India. Patients today walk into a doctor's office with print-outs of various information they have gathered over a few days on their symptoms or their elective procedure.

What I love however is the notion on their part that they are now an authority having read some "facts" they found on the web, or some research trials etc. on the topic.

... ... ...

The point I'm trying to drive home is that before you come up with your own notions on anything here, please do consult with a doctor. They are there for a reason...

TBhp anology - You wouldn't spend on ICE without consulting the gurus, you wouldn't try to modify your engine without consulting the tuners...Same thing

I agree with you Doc anyone who goes to WebMD now really thinks that they know more then their doctor. I infact saw this triend with a couple of friends lately who I accompanied to the Doctor. They had so much to say to the doc who looked really really unimpressed.

I on the other hand consider its better to be armed with knowledge, ask for more knowledge and reason in a politically correct manner so his ego doesnt get deflated. I mean its something thats going on with your body and you deserve to know. You should ask in the right way though so the doctor respects it. Otherwise no one likes to be taught how to do what they do for a living

The internet told me a lot great things about Lasik but still some questions remain any comments on the above queries I threw up Doc?

[Sam Kapasi]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

(I am on a mac so cant put the trademark sign dont know the shortcut)

here you are - ®®®®® hahaha

Use (Alt+R) on a Mac. Simple.

[kalpeshc]

However other nocturnal strenuous activities (with the torturing monster) also make me clench and squeeze a lot.

LOL - Only you can come up with a Wodehouse-isquely funny statement like that one

Half the drugs we take including Paracetamol (Crocin) have severe side effects.

@DocG, care to elaborate on that? For most of the Indians (including me) , that is the first tablet that they reach out for when they are feeling down with fever/cold/headache/anything at all !! In fact i've experienced gynacs advicing pregnant ladies to have that as its the mildest antibiotic around with absolutely no side effects - or so they claim. What are the alternatives for a mild dose of antobiotics when you want to give your WBC something to help them fight the bad boys.

Sam... when you had your op, and they fixed that flap, did you go for the ordinary screws, the stainless screws, or the diamond-headed titanium screws for added eye sparkle?
He just put a drop of spit and slammed it shut! I think I've been screwed!

This just made my day -