[Samurai]

Check the University Guide from Guardian for 2016, for Business, Management & Marketing. They appear to be ranked at 25th place in UK.

[CliffHanger]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Check the University Guide from Guardian for 2016, for Business, Management & Marketing. They appear to be ranked at 25th place in UK.

All these rankings make me really confused. In QS World Rankings this year, the University of Edinburgh has been ranked 17th in the world.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

All these rankings make me really confused. In QS World Rankings this year, the University of Edinburgh has been ranked 17th in the world.

For what course? Guardian ranking are more useful because they are available course wise.

[CliffHanger]

Originally Posted by Samurai

For what course? Guardian ranking are more useful because they are available course wise.

This is for MBA. I have been researching about MBA in UK for quite some time now. Will put a post on it soon.

[Samurai]

These ranking systems are so different, make your choice after reading about them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankin...United_Kingdom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QS_Wor...rsity_Rankings

[RocketRaccoon]

It’s 3:30 am and I am sifting through Team-BHP wondering if I would ever get so much time to go through the forums once my MBA starts at FORE School of Management in June this year. But the real dilemma is not confronting myself with the reality that I will have to cut corners with time everywhere (gym, hanging out with buddies, cycling trips and running sessions) so that I can immerse myself completely into the program but knowing what actually ‘happens’ in a PGDM/MBA and preparing myself in the month and a half that I have. I am obviously a little nervous but I am also excited to meet new people from various fields of expertise. How can I bootstrap myself before the program commences so that I get cracking as soon as I join?
I will sincerely appreciate your comments and suggestions.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by RocketRaccoon

How can I bootstrap myself before the program commences so that I get cracking as soon as I join?

Interesting question and something that I wish more people asked (me). Now the reason why I feel so is that mostly there can be two forms of answers, the idealistic one which 99% would give out and would mostly almost involve phrases like "burning the midnight oil", "sleepless nights" "PPT's" "peer learning" "internal assessments" etc. From what I had read myself before joining, all these words induced fear in me, who would like to read after all that master of b.s ;o) is going to be an 18 month boot-camp.

For my background, done MBA from a great place (I missed out on all IIM calls by a fraction and looking back I AM super-happy). Been in the industry for about 7 years now, 2 of which involved a stint in H.R & training.. what I felt the most from that experience is that all the managers are kind of stereotypical, its like they've all been shoved into this mould and re-shaped as they emerged. I had a stint in the finance department (ERP) even more briefly but I ran away because I felt there is no scope for that area other than applying pre-existing financial formulae. I've never done a marketing-intensive job even though I'd like it the most because even for the best marketing minds, opportunities are very, very less. Ideally we'd love stuff like creating marketing campaigns, brand management, brand building, advertising etc but most of those positions are taken up already and have a max of 2-3 slots even for big companies.

My answer will be a pragmatic one (pragma the Greek word for deed), i.e doing whatever works for the better. In my opinion, even after all the hard work, the sleepless nights and tens of PPT's, people usually forget 85% of what they learn by the time they finish. Like the schooling system and collegiate education before it, MBA is just a way for one to get a general overview of what "working" for an entrepreneur will be like. Very little would it teach about the practical realities, or assuming roles where one would be a leader himself/herself. One can mug up economics, finance, marketing (I was the ONLY person in class to feel that being taught Philip Kotler in this day and age was ridiculous) I tended to be a bit 'creative' during marketing assignments and internals and got rewarded with low scores as well. However I will say I was fortunate enough to learn from a few great professors who were free-thinkers and encouraged the same, I am also grateful for being repeatedly imbibed the values of honesty and efficiency in business, that was the mantra we chanted almost on a daily basis be it whatever subject and it made me who I am today.

There is nothing to prepare for before learning biz studies, it depends purely on the individual. Some are great at mugging (not me), they will breeze through in finance/quant. Depending on the professor, rebellion in marketing/h.r might be a great thing or it might get one failed. People who are great at talking on the go and who can come up with complicated well phrased words can sail through presentations with very little work since essentially all they've to do is remember a few key points and then look up the projector. Peer learning is great to understand the negatives of business experiences, but I never changed my own disposition to things because of that and I'm happy. My rebellion towards theories did get noticed though, many times it was my unique approach to case-studies that got my team top scores.. its important to look at things holistically and from a hundred angles and that's where I did great despite being in the lower half in terms of GPA. To me I never had much hobbies to begin with, I spent under-grad vacations reading business books (authors such as Al Ries & Jack Trout, Mark McCormack, P.F Drucker etc) so in a way I had nothing to give up on.

A long post so I have to summarise - It was important for me to come out as myself after the course and I did that, hard work will not be hard if its a favourite subject, as for difficult subjects I understood I'm not topper material so I never looked to crack the class top 5 at any time. I hated a lot of professors for their 1-dimensional approach but absolutely loved a few who had more dimensions than a 3D tetrahedron, it is those moments that I still fondly remember today. Likewise each will find their own way as they should.

[RocketRaccoon]

Originally Posted by dark.knight

Interesting question and something that I wish more people asked (me).

Firstly, I wanna thank you for taking the time out and writing such a long and informative answer to my question. I have browsed through various sources on the web including Quora but by far your answer is the most useful and I must commend the passion with which you have detailed your answer. You have raised an important point and I shall strive to keep a foot in the real world at the same time not devour all that I can without questioning it. After all at the end of the day one's personal development and actualization of the existential self are more important than anything that GPAs or placements would give. Not that those factors and realities associated with them are not important ! (Some companies demand a minimum CGPA level) I am already reading all that I can - every issue of The Economist and Harvard Business Review to begin with, plus books recommended by their editors. I have also started an online training program in advanced Excel and hopefully I'll even start learning about statistical analysis tools like R soon. Any advise on networking with other students/professors/industry leaders that can help me build dependable contacts ?

[Samurai]

Recently I wrote this article for a professional forum... reproducing here.

Are you right for MBA?

For years I’ve heard this familiar question: What kind of world are we leaving behind for our children?

Then one day I heard it differently: What kind of children are we leaving behind for our planet?

That’s what I call looking at the problem with fresh eyes. Take the much maligned MBA graduate program. In the 90s I had started noticing how there was a strong negative opinion about MBA grads in the American workplace. Much later there was the infamous FedEX MBA ad on TV. You can look it up on Youtube. It was too funny, and it was much talked about in the workplace, sending all the MBA grads looking for rocks to crawl under. The FedEX ad was indeed playing on the typical impression MBA grads had made on the corporate world.

Decades later it has only gotten worse, and by now I too have an MBA. And I too have been a frequent target of similar MBA jokes over the last decade. So I’ve had time to think about this.

For a moment let’s forget about pedagogy & networking and focus on course content. An MBA is part technical, part social science. The technical part requires decent IQ and nothing more. But the social science part requires much more, it requires workplace empathy and maturity.

Workplace Empathy

According to PsychologyToday, empathy is the experience of understanding another person's condition from their perspective. You place yourself in their shoes and feel what they are feeling. When you apply it to the work place, the other person could be a colleague, customer or vendor. As you work in a workplace interacting with colleagues, customers and vendors, you learn the joys, fears, problems and unique situations people undergo in a corporate environment. You also get to learn how people cope with them. Having this empathy helps you absorb MBA knowledge in a different way. Without empathy that knowledge becomes very technical; employees become mere resources, customers become revenue stream, etc. Empathy lets you remain human while studying MBA.

Fresh graduates typically don't have this kind of exposure. Of course, there is no guarantee that every employee will develop workplace empathy. Workplaces with cut-throat competition between employees, where back-stabbing is the norm, might take the person in the exact opposite direction.

Maturity

Few years of work experience can also bring about maturity, which is very important for two reasons. It gives you subjective judgment, and clarity of thought.

Subjective judgment is important while judging without the benefit of objective data. It lets you judge people & situations, and make subjective decisions instead of pure objective ones.

Clarity of thought is the ability to separate wheat from the chaff. You can look at complex situations and zero in on the important points right away.

Again, there is no guarantee that one will develop the above by working for few years. But it is how most people get it. There are always some who won't develop this maturity.

Now consider a typical MBA candidate trying for a top business school. The entrance tests can be quite good at measuring intelligence, but it is very hard to measure workplace empathy and maturity. Sure, the entrance test can contain some questions to measure those factors. But anybody with some intelligence can zero-in on the best answers after some practice, whether they truly believe it or not. As a result any student with good intelligence can breeze through the MBA entrance test despite lacking workplace empathy and maturity.

During the course, these students will take a long look at the social science part, and immediately think it is touchy-feely stuff, something to cram for exams and forget right after. Therefore, they will do very well on the technical part, cram the social science part and ace all the exams.

This is dangerous because an MBA grad in finance who has mastered only the technical aspect can make lots of money in the financial engineering field, without any guilt or empathy clouding his/her thoughts. Similarly, an MBA grad in HR who has mastered only the technical aspect might overlook the “human” and focus only on “resources”. It is this aspect of MBA grads that created the notorious stereotype we all have inherited.

Many MBA grads might eventually develop maturity and workplace empathy, but how many will revisit the old MBA courses and try to re-interpret it from a new angle?

This is why one should do their MBA after few years of work experience. Intelligence, workplace empathy and maturity (subjective judgment & clarity of thought) are the trinity you need to have in the right balance. These are the real prerequisites to unlock the best value from MBA.

Don't ask yourself if an MBA is right for you. Ask yourself if you are right for an MBA.

[akshaymahajan]

Originally Posted by Samurai

..[/i]

Samurai, quoting you here because I really want to hear you opinion.

Since school, I had been very clear that I wanted to go to a top 20 US B-school for my MBA after 5 years or more of work.

Just completed 6 years at my organization last week, and so its time.

However, looking at the growing Indian market and the US political/visa scenario, I am in a soup. 7 years down the line, I dont think I want to stay in the US. While I have no location preference, I would want to be in a 6-8 hour flying radius from home.

So should I be looking at
1. US B Schools: Graduate, get a job, repay loan in 5 years odd and then decide
2. ISB: Heard extreme reviews: both good and bad. And the 7 years work ex does limit my recruiting options. Cheaper (both fees and oppurtunity cost)
3. Insead: Tempted. Apart from the USA, I think the degree is respected across countries. Cheaper (both fees and oppurtunity cost)
4. Other EU B schools: Still not sure how much value an MBA from IMD/IESE hold when outside the degree issuing country

Would love to hear feedback. And if anything I wrote is incorrect, please feel free to correct me.

Shout out to all alumni/recruiters to share your experience and POV

[Samurai]

I suggest you avoid US for couple of reasons. (a) The fees are unreasonably high, and will land you in massive debt. (b) Job market for foreigners is shrinking rapidly due to the environment created by the current administration, especially in business related jobs. I know US citizens with business degree having tough time getting a job. So there is no saying how long it will take to clear the debt. Finally, the visa situation is precarious. A colleague who moved to US in 2006 for higher studies is awaiting GC. So he is still susceptible to any change in visa regime.

Probably you are looking at this the wrong way. MBA is a means to an end, and not the end itself. What is your career goal? Are you looking for a career in finance or marketing or management or consulting? If you have a clear idea about your goal, it is possible to give more appropriate answer. Since you have 6+ years of work experience, you might have an idea by now.

[akshaymahajan]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I suggest you avoid US for couple of reasons. (a) The fees are unreasonably high, and will land you in massive debt. (b) Job market for foreigners is shrinking rapidly due to the environment created by the current administration, especially in business related jobs. I know US citizens with business degree having tough time getting a job. So there is no saying how long it will take to clear the debt. Finally, the visa situation is precarious. A colleague who moved to US in 2006 for higher studies is awaiting GC. So he is still susceptible to any change in visa regime.

Probably you are looking at this the wrong way. MBA is a means to an end, and not the end itself. What is your career goal? Are you looking for a career in finance or marketing or management or consulting? If you have a clear idea about your goal, it is possible to give more appropriate answer. Since you have 6+ years of work experience, you might have an idea by now.

Thanks. I have an engineering degree and right now I work as an Operations Consultant in the automotive space. Since I dont have a background in Finance, Economics, and marketing, I want to go to school and learn. While I have worked across continents, attending a few global MBA classes made me realize how an MBA can change your thought process (thanks to all the perspectives you hear from your peers during classes), make you stretch yourself and the network is always there.

Short term, I want to stay in management consulting - but want to get into more general consulting role and experience new industries. Apart from the routine MBB, Simon Kucher, LEK and AT Kearney are on my target list.

I am observing the increase in the demand for Product Managers, and may consider that as well during my internship.

5-7 odd years post my MBA, I would want to get into a core industry and function that I hope to understand during my consulting stint.

[Samurai]

Consulting is not really my area. But I have PMed a BHPian with loads of consulting experience, to respond to this thread.

[Saanil]

Originally Posted by akshaymahajan

Short term, I want to stay in management consulting - but want to get into more general consulting role and experience new industries. Apart from the routine MBB, Simon Kucher, LEK and AT Kearney are on my target list.

Just giving you some information which I heard from other people. ISB is a good option if you want to stay in India. It is known for placements in consulting however it is not known for placements in Finance. The cost of the MBA is about 30 lakh and it is just a 1 year course. I am not sure if these figures are accurate.

[akshaymahajan]

Originally Posted by Saanil

Just giving you some information which I heard from other people. ISB is a good option if you want to stay in India. It is known for placements in consulting however it is not known for placements in Finance. The cost of the MBA is about 30 lakh and it is just a 1 year course. I am not sure if these figures are accurate.

Thanks Saanil. The cost of the course and the duration are spot on.

While the placement numbers show that consulting is trending at ISB, I do belive that a chunck of these are already students by MBB. I have also heard that MBB do not recruit people with 6-7 years of prior work experience on campus because of the roles offered during campus recruiting. And it makes perfect sense since it would be hard for one to be an asocciate at the age of 30.

Any ISB alumni/ MBB ninjas who can shed some more light.