[hothatchaway]

Originally Posted by amitoj

I'll give one example. Mandatory volunteering hours for high school students.

Are you stressing on the mandatory part, because there are ample opportunities to volunteer in India too, which are perhaps more enriching in nature, given the diversity, both cultural and geographical.

I don't think it being mandatory makes it "better". If I don't care much for such things I will just go along because I have to and then forget about it. By the way there is something called SUPW Or socially useful and productive work which is part of the ICSE curriculum which aims, pretty much to do the same thing as you are alluding to. Of course, the end result depends on execution and intent.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Pequod

Just trying to understand, what is the exposure / aspects of life being referred to here? As in what kind or nature of exposure? Knowledge, diversity, socio-cultural mores?

Well, let's not forget this one:

https://youthtoday.org/2023/12/95-of...tudents-safer/

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by androdev

It always amuses me when I see "effort to integrate" is seen as some kind of virtue or a desirable trait. It's one thing to blend - make local friends, to embrace the local sports, clothing and cuisine.

It is actually a very desirable trait. Except for a few fortunate ones, displacement from the place/location you grew up is a reality. And this need not be into a different country. I moved to a different state within India after university (which was a preferred choice for Malayalees). And those 21 months were really bad for me – nothing wrong with host city, but it was my own inability to integrate, see the good side etc. Even with some cultural similarities, the differences were standing out more. Sudden move from a well-to-do atmosphere to living on a stipend in an alien city also added to the misery. After that when I moved to SE Asia, the whole process was easy. From the experiences gathered from the initial stint, I started seeing the world differently, even going back to the city I hated initially was a pleasant experience.

What I gathered from the above experience – More than forcing myself to culturally integrate, I understood the importance of cultural respect. And that brings in humility and the awareness that each culture has its own nuances and no culture is superior to other. Once a person get hold of this, the integration part happens organically. The ideas of close-knit family, values, personal space, community living – all exist in other cultures as well. Its just about how each person see those. It took me close to two years (in India) to understand that, some may catch it straight away, and some may never understand those aspects. End of the day, what works for a person (and his/her family) is important.

Originally Posted by androdev

Many young people come to this thread seeking immigration advice. At their age and social circumstances, the primary focus area tends to be about finances and logistics. However we all know that finances and logistics take a back seat within a couple of years and issues related to relationships, identity, meaningfulness , etc. come to the forefront. These are not the things you would go to a public forum and post about it and everything is so irrevocably tied up that you have to make peace with the new reality. It's not a question of which is better. It's like your brain is replaced by something else - are you the same person you thought you are?

This is where the shift is happening – the primary focus is not always financials now. The initiator of this series of discussion is earning pretty well in India but he wanted to try something different, gain new experiences and so on. Some of us who moved out for many years, or moved back a decade ago, can pitch in with our thoughts, but the reasons to move for the current youth are very different, and that’s actually quite refreshing.

Originally Posted by androdev

If you are proud of being who you are, be yourself on whichever part of the Earth you put your tent. There is nothing to be ashamed of the values you grow up with. Understand the difference between success and happiness. Don't trade happiness for success. You should aspire for both.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Pequod

Great, but then “mandating” a voluntary act is self-contradictory...

I'm guessing that, in the context, "voluntary" is translated as "unpaid," rather than as of their own free will.

[Kurrant]

Originally Posted by Pequod

Just trying to understand, what is the exposure / aspects of life being referred to here?

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

What's the definition of exposure here if i may ask Pls.

Edit- Just seeing similar post from @pequod. Mods may delete this if it sounds repetitive.

Above are good examples of rhetorical question.
While this whole debate in the last few pages is coming across as pointless, it is undeniable that on average the exposure gained by a growing child/adult in a western country is of a magnitude higher than that gained by a similar child/adult in India. In my locality almost all children in their late teens are either preparing for JEE/ or Medical. 5 a..m you can hear the Activas firing up one after the other. All of them starting their day with a tuition class.

There are opportunities in India too, probably better as one mentioned, but how many are allowed to pursue?

Originally Posted by Samurai

Well, let's not forget this one:

https://youthtoday.org/2023/12/95-of...tudents-safer/

This is an endless argument. Kids in US getting killed due to shoot outs. Kids in India getting murdered due to undue pressure (Kota).

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Kurrant

This is an endless argument. Kids in US getting killed due to shoot outs. Kids in India getting murdered due to undue pressure (Kota).

Really? How is 95% of US public schools is same as Kota situation?

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Reality is quite different. Those who know will know.

Absolutely. I know quite a few non-Indian origin families here whose principles and standards are way above anyone I know in India. By that, I mean the way they care for those not as fortunate as themselves, or are not from the same background or culture as their own.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I'm guessing that, in the context, "voluntary" is translated as "unpaid," rather than as of their own free will.

Yes, and also the structure that exists to support volunteerism.

Originally Posted by Kurrant

Above are good examples of rhetorical question.
While this whole debate in the last few pages is coming across as pointless, it is undeniable that on average the exposure gained by a growing child/adult in a western country is of a magnitude higher than that gained by a similar child/adult in India. In my locality almost all children in their late teens are either preparing for JEE/ or Medical. 5 a..m you can hear the Activas firing up one after the other. All of them starting their day with a tuition class.

There are opportunities in India too, probably better as one mentioned, but how many are allowed to pursue?

Exactly. There are debates and then there are debates for the sake of argument. This is what this thread is devolving into.

Another example of exposure. As of this moment, there are thousands of kids gathered from all over the US and the world in Houston, Texas, participating in a robotics competition. These teams are run like a corporation and students get to experience that right from middle school. In these 5 days they will get to interact with kids from all over the world. This happens every year.

Originally Posted by Kurrant

This is an endless argument. Kids in US getting killed due to shoot outs. Kids in India getting murdered due to undue pressure (Kota).

Perfect example of the thread being derailed using tabloid-ish sources. Schools also have fire alarm drills, bus accident evacuation drills, emergency medical evac drills. But people who want to further their argument will not talk about those.

[Kurrant]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Really? How is 95% of US public schools is same as Kota situation?

You probably didn't get my point, but I got yours. I don't want to risk an infraction so early into my T-Bhp membership, so I think its better to stop and check this thread a few days later when probably a different topic is being discussed.

[Pequod]

Originally Posted by Kurrant

Above are good examples of rhetorical question.

Maybe because it was posed in response to a rhetorical statement . Be that as it may, I was hoping for a quantifiable, definite response.

Originally Posted by Kurrant

There are opportunities in India too, probably better as one mentioned, but how many are allowed to pursue?

“Allowed”? Pray, by whom?

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by kbnissan

I feel the public school system in the USA provides equitable education to all students.
.

No they don’t. There are some exceptionally good ones and some exceptionally bad ones. When we lived in Kansas City my wife did volunteer work at one of the worst schools in the USA at the time.

There are some of the best too. As with anything in the USA. Huge bandwidth between the top and the bottom.

Of course, the best schools are never in the worst neighbourhoods. Pretty much the opposite. If you live in a black neighbourhood statistically you are unlikely to end up in an even half decent public school.


https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...kings-by-state

Jeroen

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by hothatchaway

By the way there is something called SUPW Or socially useful and productive work which is part of the ICSE curriculum which aims, pretty much to do the same thing as you are alluding to. Of course, the end result depends on execution and intent.

Do you mean Some Useful Periods Wasted
The term was coined by some seniors. It was there in CBSE too and in none of the four schools I studied at across India, was there any Social, Productive, or Useful work during this period. At best, we did some craftwork during smaller grades.

Originally Posted by Pequod

“Allowed”? Pray, by whom?

How much ever we want to believe, at the end of the day parents push the kids towards what they think will guarantee a good job. Just look around and see how many are willing to let the kid pursue arts or sports as a career option.
Your location states, Trivandrum. So you'd have seen enough Malayalam ads promoting courses for a job "oru joli ki vendi padiku".

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

No they don’t. There are some exceptionally good ones and some exceptionally bad ones.

Exactly. It is one of the weirdest things I noticed while living in USA for a decade. The public schools are funded mostly by property taxes. And one has to be resident of the same school district in order to attend that public school. So affluent parents pay high premium to buy a house or rent a house in a school district that has a good school. So, the rent and home prices use to skyrocket in the school district that had good schools, which increased the budget of the school even further. While the poor districts had pathetic schools with little budget.

[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by amitoj

Another example of exposure. As of this moment, there are thousands of kids gathered from all over the US and the world in Houston, Texas, participating in a robotics competition. .

India too have it's own poor version of same as ATL, Atal tinkering lab. I Know it as both my kids are enrolled into them and did some good learning on it.

https://aim.gov.in/atl.php

Yeah, kids from world over do not participate but than we are no-where as economically prosperous as US Or west.

Originally Posted by Kurrant

Above are good examples of rhetorical question..

Never thought about it while posting. Had to look at dictionary if i indeed asked a rhetorical question and i think i indeed asked a valid question rather than a rhetorical one.

Originally Posted by Kurrant

While this whole debate in the last few pages is coming across as pointless, it is undeniable that on average the exposure gained by a growing child/adult in a western country is of a magnitude higher than that gained by a similar child/adult in India.

I would have agreed about this if this was era of 1990 but in decade of 2020s. I regularly see study tours being organised by schools within / outside india with a healthy participation. With availability of internet and other mediums, it is at par IMO.

Originally Posted by Kurrant

In my locality almost all children in their late teens are either preparing for JEE/ or Medical. 5 a..m you can hear the Activas firing up one after the other. All of them starting their day with a tuition class.

I see nothing wrong if kids are doing it voluntarily. Have we ever wondered why our kids excel in STEM while US is trying to promote STEM with in their own populace. It is the best age for them to learn & do some hard work. Still better than getting exposure to Substance abuse & indulge in experimental things i cannot talk about on this forum.

[Pequod]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

How much ever we want to believe, at the end of the day parents push the kids towards what they think will guarantee a good job. Just look around and see how many are willing to let the kid pursue arts or sports as a career option.
Your location states, Trivandrum. So you'd have seen enough Malayalam ads promoting courses for a job "oru joli ki vendi padiku".

Exactly. It’s about the parent’s mindset, and I doubt that’s going to change by virtue of just being in the US (or any other country). Looking inward and deciding to change can happen in India or US, any part of the world - it’s about you, not the location. One person at a time.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

I would have agreed about this if this was era of 1990 but in decade of 2020s. I regularly see study tours being organised by schools within / outside india with a healthy participation. With availability of internet and other mediums, it is at par IMO. .

No comparison as far as I’m concerned. It’s like going on holiday to Kenya for a week and claim you understand the country, the people and the culture.

School outings are great and they do provide some exposure to other environments for the participating kids. But it can not be compared to be living abroad mid to long term.

It’s very often the day to day living, working and regular chores that really give you a better understanding for the country you live in. Like daily shopping, or how the banks work, the healthcare, schools, clubs and so on.

If anything the one problematic thing with these school trips and holidays and Internet is we have whole generation who think they understand the world because they have been exposed to a few places abroad during a school trip or have seen it on a YouTube channel.

Real life and real experiences require much broader and deeper continuous exposure to a different culture/environment.

Do we seriously believe anybody can even begin to understand, for instance, India by watching the internet and taking a four week tour?

Jeroen