[Samurai]

Originally Posted by ritz3645

USA is the best country on this earth, and i am not talking of New Jersey/CA state where junta goes to, -discover other 48.

You should see this then:

Bill Maher - America Isn't #1 - YouTube

[ritz3645]

Originally Posted by Samurai

You should see this then: Bill Maher - America Isn't #1 - YouTube

pardon me but yes freedom of speech is protected via en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States
_Constitution

my star
is Dave L

America was is and will always be the greatest, we can discuss on pm of any more as election year and "The road to the White House runs right through me." -David Letterman.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by ritz3645

America was is and will always be the greatest, we can discuss on pm of any more as election year and "The road to the White House runs right through me." -David Letterman.

Oh, don't take me for a US-hater, I lived there for 9 years and really loved it. But I returned in 2004 since I wanted to live in my own country. I am a keen follower of US politics, and I am well read on American history too. I agree it used to be the greatest country. But now...

Read the book Third World America, I felt very sad to read that book. It describes how US has been letting itself down in every area.

Arianna Huffington: Third World America: Why I Wrote the Book and What We Need to Do to Save America's Middle Class

[ritz3645]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Oh, don't take me for a US-hater, I lived there for 9 years and really loved it. But I returned in 2004 since I wanted to live in my own country. I am a keen follower of US politics, and I am well read on American history too. I agree it used to be the greatest country. But now...

Read the book Third World America, I felt very sad to read that book. It describes how US has been letting itself down in every area.

Arianna Huffington: Third World America: Why I Wrote the Book and What We Need to Do to Save America's Middle Class

Hi, we two on the same boat.

I go by my experience.

Does Usa need rest of the world, or vice versa.

America aint USSR/EU to dis integrate.

India left a golden chance to break dollar dominance and MM is in Iran today, but dollar will prevail, and rest of the world falls in line.


Right now US internally is a divided house, but for how long,
And just like during WW¡¡ (people gave all metals from their house to make weapons, arms), people will share and build, brick by brick the greatest nation.

[VLOCT]

Even with all the current doom and gloom, I do not see an other country that is even a close second to the US, when it comes to human dignity. This is the only country I know that tolerates 12 million illegals, provides employment and even afford them some legal protection.

I cannot foresee a complete disintegration of the standard of living in this country. The country's natural resources are too huge including, according to the latest estimates, possibly the largest petroleum reserves in the world, when you include all the unreachable/usable deposits, till recently, and a population that is too dynamic and young.

Even in these tough economic times, let's not forget that the unemployment among college graduates in the US still remains at 4- 5%.

[Evil]

Originally Posted by VLOCT

Even with all the current doom and gloom, I do not see an other country that is even a close second to the US, when it comes to human dignity. This is the only country I know that tolerates 12 million illegals, provides employment and even afford them some legal protection.

I cannot foresee a complete disintegration of the standard of living in this country. The country's natural resources are too huge including, according to the latest estimates, possibly the largest petroleum reserves in the world, when you include all the unreachable/usable deposits, till recently, and a population that is too dynamic and young.

Even in these tough economic times, let's not forget that the unemployment among college graduates in the US still remains at 4- 5%.

The 287g program is some serious Nazi crap. Look up "ICE secure communities".

People call Singapore a police state but being brown isn't suspicious behavior by itself in Singapore.

[naveenroy]

And in all this, most of you are forgetting that there are people who are interested in moving to other countries. I have no interest at all in moving to the US. Whenever we talk of moving outside India, it does not have to be the US. There were times when it was the place to go to.

[noopster]

@drsingh, good point. I agree that a vast majority of Indians do go abroad because of higher earning/saving potential. That was no doubt a factor in my own choice to do so as well. In fact the money buys some respectability in one's home town/village and that allows people to move up the social ladder as well.

@Evil- some of the activities you've mentioned are illegal in other countries as well. You mentioned Singapore- well, good luck with that there!

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

I would like to add a few points of my own:

Good points Selfdrive!

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Emergencies back in India: do you have support groups for your family back in India? if not, you could be looking at multiple trips back to India which need to be budgeted for (again both money & time). I found this out the difficult way when I had to make weekend return trips from Europe a couple of years ago. I would go to the extent of saying that be prepared to forego certain rights when moving elsewhere. One of my cousins could not make it to the final rites of her very close relative as they were in Canada. Be prepared for being practical over emotional is all I can say. However, this is easier said than done, especially for countries located further away from India.

This was one extra reason for me decide to continue in my current place of residence – proximity to home / direct flights. And even with all the stringent policies, I find the multicultural setup and harmony here quite appealing.

Another point I would like add for those who plan to move abroad:
Prepare for the reverse culture shock: Moving to a new place involves quite a bit of adjustment to the culture, climate, pace of life etc. Expect to go through the same cycle when you go back home, especially after a long term stay abroad. Selfdrive had started a thread sometime back on a similar topic.

Originally Posted by noopster

@Evil- some of the activities you've mentioned are illegal in other countries as well. You mentioned Singapore- well, good luck with that there!

Completely agree

[Wolfheart]

Originally Posted by KPGB

Wolfheart,lejhoom,VLOCT,

Thank you very much for the valuable piece of advise - this definitely helps me to weigh in my options. I'll do my bit and see where this leads me to :-). I am an IT professional with 12 years experience - my only concern is that I need to land in a decent job relevant to my experience and I am finding it hard to get any leads from here. Not sure if the emigration way will work to my favor but I'll try my chance.

Thanks

KPGB: Employers in foreign countries are generally reluctant to hire people who don't hold visas, due to several reasons. In my opinion, apply for and obtain a residence visa and then apply for jobs. You may get a better response. You see every day many skilled migrants obtain their visas and relocate to countries like Australia, Canada etc. When you apply for a job from India, you're actually competing against people who have already sorted the visa, have the right to work locally and are available for a personal interview. If you were the employer / recruiter, whom would you respond to?

If you're an experienced IT professional, at the moment your best bet is migration to Australia. This is because you may be eligible for a permanent residence visa. To check your eligibility, visit www.immi.gov.au if interested.

For getting a feel of what type of job opportunities are available , have a look at www.seek.com.au .

Originally Posted by naveenroy

Would really love to know ways to migrate to Germany. I am actually planning to Denmark and was looking for avenues to. Even approached an emigration agency here asking for prices etc and even got a technical evaluation done.

But my post got lost since it opened up a whole lot of posts about culture and what not

Hi Naveen,

As far as I know, you'll need a job offer and a sponsorship in order to work in Germany. There are no independent skilled visas for Indian professionals. The EU had proposed a "Blue Card" scheme to be implemented, but in the current economic scenario, that's taken a back seat.

Denmark does have a "Green Card" scheme and you don't require a job offer nor sponsorship. You get the visa based on scoring points and some other factors. However, it's a temporary visa which allows you to live and work in Denmark for a few years. It can be extended if you continue to hold a job in Denmark and would eventually lead to permanent residence.

You must however be aware of the fact that it's essential to be fluent in the local language in order to land a job. Unless you have very specialized skills which are in short supply there, I would suggest that you plan things very carefully. Being an expensive country, you wouldn't want to deplete your savings when job offers are hard to come by.

I would also suggest that you tread very carefully when it comes to agencies pushing migration schemes for destinations like Denmark, Hong Kong etc. Many of these organizations put on a facade of being very professional and specialized, when in fact not even a single employee there is qualified to offer legal immigration advice. The visa success rates for the above countries are not very good. Please make sure that you read reviews, ask for client references and do your homework before you part with your money and put your career and immigration history in someone's hands. India unfortunately is a hotbed for unethical and unscrupulous immigration agencies because no one monitors, licenses or regulates this industry. Always check with the relevant immigration department or embassy if the agency is registered to represent you. I'm only cautioning you because you mentioned "technical evaluation" which is nothing but a way to fleece aspiring migrants. Any immigration agency worth it's salt will give you the initial evaluation for free and only charge when you retain their services. Please read reviews and do your homework before engaging any immigration agency.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by ritz3645

USA is the best country on this earth, and i am not talking of New Jersey/CA state where junta goes to, -discover other 48.

that is what I thought before i went to the UK, then I thought UK was the best till I went to Germany. And so on. The point is not about the country itself but its different perceptions. We all know each country has its tourism postcards and a dark underbelly too. The question that one needs to answer is based on your income, what standard of living would you fit in and whether that is acceptable to you. This is a totally subjective decision. At the end of the day, any country can be really great only when it learns to treat its infirm people (old, sick, disabled, war veterans, poor and other sections of underpriviliged) well. I think this is where we fall short in India. Not in terms of offering subsidies, but in terms of giving respect.

Originally Posted by ritz3645

Also dont leave india for hating indian habits, people, custom etc as once you reach there they will again be there.

ha ha, yes. in fact one will meet some people who are stuck in an Indian time warp. I can give the unfortunate example of one of my friends whose unle/ aunt were living abroad since the 80s. they were looking for a traditional indian girl for their son a few years ago so they came down to India to 'bridehunt' (if there is such a term!) they were 'shocked' out of their wits when they realised their expectations were from the 80s too. their problem was they didnt integrate there and they did not keep any link with India as well (I dont count 2 fortnightly vacations in 13 years as a link). So in a way India moved on, and they were left with a previous gen India in their heads.

Originally Posted by noopster

@drsingh, good point. I agree that a vast majority of Indians do go abroad because of higher earning/saving potential. That was no doubt a factor in my own choice to do so as well. In fact the money buys some respectability in one's home town/village and that allows people to move up the social ladder as well.

yes, a lot of people do go abroad to earn more and then inflate the real estate prices here! but some of us do go over to satisfy a travel 'bug'. I did so mainly to see some places in Europe. I am not rich enough to make a europe trip from India. But I must also admit that I did confirm I would make as much as I could here. in a way when I returned the time warp bit me badly too!

So to summarise state of things now:
- will I think of emigrating to a foreign land? yes I would, but with better preparation and a long term plan in place. I would certainly be very selective about the place I would want to move to.
- if I go, will I return to India? Unlikely in the short term. It will soon get to a stage where I can neither feel happy about living in a land where I am deprived of rights (because I dont belong to x category) nor can I afford to live here (because I cannot manage to earn enough to support a decent style of life).

Originally Posted by vb-san

Prepare for the reverse culture shock: Moving to a new place involves quite a bit of adjustment to the culture, climate, pace of life etc. Expect to go through the same cycle when you go back home, especially after a long term stay abroad. Selfdrive had started a thread sometime back on a similar topic.

Right, do you really want me to start off on that one?!

Edit:
For those who are interested, here is the link:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ing-india.html

Moddies, please remove link if this contradicts our rules here.

[Wolfheart]

Originally Posted by lejhoom

I know someone here in Hyderabad who is a MARA agent, Mr Prasad. You can call him on 9959992458. Please do due diligence before availing the services.

There is no MARA agent by the name of Prasad in Hyderabad. There is no record found in the 'Register of Migration Agents' on the MARA website.

If anyone claims to be a MARA Agent, you must first check if the person is currently registered with and is in good standing of MARA by searching through the MARA website.

https://www.mara.gov.au/agent/ARSear...=&FolderID=394

[ritz3645]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

that is what I thought before i went to the UK, then I thought UK was the best till I went to Germany. And so on.
.

Selfdrive hi,
I find whole of Europe a bit castist, like a lower level walking in a brahmin home.
Uk is VAT & gone monarchy.
Germany is so Deutschland, but the womens are amazing.

With new world its different ie US.

CANADA is UK backwater and thinks its better than USA. Imagine Pamela anderson, canadian are proud of her.
If a teen girl disappears in canada, she is most likely to be in a USA strip place.

Dont consider much of australia or newzealand, as they are rugged pub fighting farmers.

You can be the most sophisticated but they will be their way.

Usa fabric is different the society i mean.

And then you have people related with Israel, who are the top businessmen or top on the food chain.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by ritz3645

I find whole of Europe a bit castist, like a lower level walking in a brahmin home.

ooh, too many general observations there. I dont agree with you, it is kind of painting everyone with the same superbroad brush.
If I continue in that vein, I will never be able to live in India! Its not about being patriotic or anything, but if we think in the same vein about India, I dont think you would like me to type any further.

While I disagree for what you said about all countries, I think its a bit rich for someone from India to talk about Europe being casteist. We are already way off topic I guess.

No point judging people by their origin. something that we dont like other people to do to us when we go out of India. something is not correct here.

[ritz3645]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

ooh,I dont think you would like me to type any further.

Hi Selfdrive, my experience is little different but true, like I use to be on a cruise line, and the whole world will visit us.
Imagine i had indians from Usa who will eat every thing ie meat but not on tue and sat.

Even i love a stake medium, AAA grade, but not in india. Also Angus you know.

I want you to type, and email me, like i did please.

i may sound offending/rude but want people who can understand and interpret my message to visit these shores, as they will be stronger and mentally prepared.
Imagine of a graduate from rural india going abroad and ending up in a pot wash at wendys or a menial job ie dead end.