[creative420]

Is there a possibility for people in there late 30s, with no kids, to emigrate to the European countries that offer further education at great price. I'm talking about Scandinavian countries or Germany, which apparently offers courses in English.

All this, leading to a job and emigration possibilities.

[Amrik Singh]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

I must mention that I'd be happier to fly back to Bangalore mid-next year if my H-1B lottery doesn't get picked. If it does, I'll be in a quandary as the American dream is dead for an average joe like me; I can't spend 15 years with the golden handcuff waiting for my GC. I'd appreciate your input on this

Suggestion 1 : Pursue PhD and try G.C. through EB-1A
Suggestion 2 : Instead of returning back to India, step across border into Canada with assured PR

[hothatchaway]

Originally Posted by creative420

Is there a possibility for people in there late 30s, with no kids, to emigrate to the European countries that offer further education at great price. I'm talking about Scandinavian countries or Germany, which apparently offers courses in English.

All education is tuition free (including universities) in Germany. You pay a semester fee (around 300 euros) which also gets you a public transport pass for that region. You will have to factor in living costs of course, which is at par with what it is in the developed world and insurance, which costs more once you hit thirty.

International students in Germany are now eligible for a 18 month post work visa also, but the labour market is competitive and PR far more difficult to qualify for, than let's say Canada/the antipodes.

Check out the websites of public universities in Germany, they are available in English and very intuitive to navigate.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Good point, Samurai.
Although I feel that highly specialized R&D work will be within the home country of the MNC as they have a better legal framework that dissuades IP theft (to whatever extent possible).

True, but it cuts down the available opportunities by a significant amount. BTW, there are plenty of captive R&D units of US companies in India.

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

In my case, learning new skills is the reason why I'm currently in the US. There was no way in hell I was going to get a quality MS education in India considering the limited opportunities besides IITs.

Now many top US universities offer online MS.

https://www.mastersportal.com/articl...education.html

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

I must mention that I'd be happier to fly back to Bangalore mid-next year if my H-1B lottery doesn't get picked. If it does, I'll be in a quandary as the American dream is dead for an average joe like me; I can't spend 15 years with the golden handcuff waiting for my GC. I'd appreciate your input on this

This is highly personal. Some feel they are lucky to be allowed to live in USA even with a long golden handcuff. Some feel frustrated even without one. I last applied for h1-b extension 20 years ago, when there was no lottery. Just applying would ensure success. Same case with GC at that time. I could have applied for GC in the late 90s, but I didn't want to stay in USA. Folks who applied in 2004-2005, got it in 4 years. My son (soon to be 21) is USC and he has no plans to leave India. He has friends frantically writing TOEFL/GRE, while he is planning to do online MS. So it all depends on where one wants to live.

[Akshay6988]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Covid-19 has changed the landscape of emigration. Companies have discovered that if people can work from home without losing productivity, they can do so from any part of the world. Why pay $80K to someone average on H1B, when you can get someone really good for $40K who lives in his/her own country?

This also explains why salaries in WFH roles have hit the stratosphere these days. There are plenty of folks working in MNCs while living in their native villages. I know a few who changed jobs in MNCs without ever leaving their village. Interviews, onboarding, orientation,... everything is now on Zoom/Teams/Webex.

In pre covid days, I was thinking to pursue MS from US / Ireland but seeing how situation got worsened I've postponed my plan to do the MS. This thought of applying for companies from other countries did cross my mind. But wouldn't there be some caveat that employee should be residing in the specific country ? Or it is not the case anymore ? Any suggestions on this topic would be really helpful
PS I would happily take the $40K job living in India
Jokes apart, I really don't want to go abroad, as I have to put my family first in the priority. So I am exploring this option.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

Suggestion 1 : Pursue PhD and try G.C. through EB-1A
Suggestion 2 : Instead of returning back to India, step across border into Canada with assured PR

Thanks for the suggestions, @Amrik Singh.

Replying to your suggestions:
1. I've given it a lot of thought and decided that I don't have a good enough reason to do a Ph.D. Certainly don't want to do a Ph.D. for the sake of GC. (With all due respect) Academia has a lot of sub-par professors who are under the "Publish or Perish" mode to get tenure-ship.

2. Being a confused 20-something year old, I don't feel like I'm ready for a big commitment like a PR in Canada. For this reason, I refuse to work on the application and documentation. (Also, please refer point 1 below)

Originally Posted by Samurai

This is highly personal. Some feel they are lucky to be allowed to live in the USA even with a long golden handcuff. Some feel frustrated even without one.

I get your point there @Samurai. I'll track down your posts on the Return to India forum.

I understand where people come from and, to each his own. There are a lot of good things about living in the US (or any first-world country) and I've enjoyed the material aspects of it. But I'm starting to think about the future - I'm serious about long-term planning. There are many aspects to consider:
1. Well-being of parents - They are healthy now (*knock on wood*) but I feel like I need to be there with them from now.
2. My mental space - I want to explore other fields, run my own business, and not be bound to one occupation because a piece of paper (my visa) dictates what I can and can't do. How ironic - I'm not free in the Land of the Free as I signed up for the golden handcuffs.
3. I miss life in general in India - especially deep friendships (I do have a few great friends in the US too & some non-Indian too) and strong family ties.
4. Individualism vs community - I feel like the sense of community is better established in India.

I don't intend to turn the thread into a rant about why I don't exactly fit into the US as the American dream is dead. I know there'll be a lot of changes and rude awakenings cope up to India - but I feel like I can make a better transition and get adjusted faster if I come back to India when I'm younger rather than older.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

I get your point there @Samurai. I'll track down your posts on the Return to India forum.

How do you even know about that ancient connection, I left that forum 14 years ago.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

I get your point there @Samurai. I'll track down your posts on the Return to India forum.

I understand where people come from and, to each his own. There are a lot of good things about living in the US (or any first-world country) and I've enjoyed the material aspects of it. But I'm starting to think about the future - I'm serious about long-term planning. There are many aspects to consider:
1. Well-being of parents - They are healthy now (*knock on wood*) but I feel like I need to be there with them from now.
2. My mental space - I want to explore other fields, run my own business, and not be bound to one occupation because a piece of paper (my visa) dictates what I can and can't do. How ironic - I'm not free in the Land of the Free as I signed up for the golden handcuffs.
3. I miss life in general in India - especially deep friendships (I do have a few great friends in the US too & some non-Indian too) and strong family ties.
4. Individualism vs community - I feel like the sense of community is better established in India.

I don't intend to turn the thread into a rant about why I don't exactly fit into the US as the American dream is dead. I know there'll be a lot of changes and rude awakenings cope up to India - but I feel like I can make a better transition and get adjusted faster if I come back to India when I'm younger rather than older.

From someone who actually left the US leaving the GC and visa@US options on the table and came back to India in recent years, let me tell you there's a huge gap in talking the talk and actually walking the walk. I have had huge # of friends and acquaintances tell me they have been planning similar for years (for more or less the same 4 points you mentioned) and indicated they are just about to do it. I see your points exactly similar to what they have told me. It's been 4 years since I moved and none of them have done it.

Nothing against you in particular but I'll just suggest one thing. Think over it, put a fixed timeline (if you are still keen on it) and make the transition within that timelines. If one continues doing opportunity cost and other analysis, my prediction is he/she will be stay put overseas only. Coz either decision (to stay or to move) will have its pros & cons and nothing definite and you'll always be left wondering which is the better option.

[LTAutoMad]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Nothing against you in particular but I'll just suggest one thing. Think over it, put a fixed timeline (if you are still keen on it) and make the transition within that timelines.

Excellent point! Very true. Again, this is not aimed at the OP, but a general statement:

I have two friends who went to the US in their 30s on good IT jobs, continued working there, but never settled down as they always said "We are coming back, We are coming back"; every time there would be a new reason (stage of life) not to come back; they have had good careers; went through H1 > GC > Citizenship; meanwhile a couple of decades elapsed! They are now middle-aged men at the sunset years of their careers. Their children are in university; they are too old to come back to India for jobs, but too young to retire. They are now saying we will work till 62 & then definitely retire to India!

We (all their friends) had told them long back to make a call either way and not to dilly-dally - in fact, both of them have been renting all this time! Recently, they have bought their first homes in the US - in their 50s. They could have avoided a lot of heartburn, not to mention saved a lot of money, if they had made the call long back. There will be so many pros & cons either way - its a unique decision for each individual, but please make the decision & stick by it.

[Amrik Singh]

Originally Posted by LTAutoMad

I have two friends who went to the US in their 30s on good IT jobs, continued working there, but never settled down as they always said "We are coming back, We are coming back"; every time there would be a new reason (stage of life) not to come back; they have had good careers; went through H1 > GC > Citizenship

You cannot compare yourself with them. Those times have gone. Now if you go on H1, you will live with a dream of GC (unless there is a drastic change in policies there). So you will be always feeling insecure and keep on ranting what they have been saying "we are going to return" at the same time awaiting GC and eventually Citizenship. During this process you will be so cut off from Indian ways of working that you might be misfit here.
Whatever, make a firm decision and stick to it. Of course, no harm in having Plan B or Plan C either.

[Samurai]

Finally, British can't use the word expat in EU anymore. Thanks to Brexit, they just immigrants and they have to apply for visa and residency, etc. And they are mad about it. In fact, most of these expats voted to leave because they hate immigrants. But now expats are immigrants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEnksYEAIVI

[Samurai]

New foreign opportunities are opening up in farming sector.

The onion farms are located in the Sinan and Muan islands in the southern part of South Korea. The salary promised is $1,500 monthly

https://www.newindianexpress.com/cit...a-2377409.html

Don't scoff at it. Blue collar workers also dream of foreign jobs, and they have lot less opportunities.

Soon USA and Brexit-UK might see the advantage in getting legal aliens to come on seasonal visas to meet the requirements in farming sector. While Brexit stopped seasonal farm workers from coming to UK, the Trump era ICE department cracked down undocumented farm workers very hard.

[vibbs]

Hey all,

Have a question to those who know a thing or two about Sweden. I have been in Singapore now for 3 years and am currently evaluating a couple of opportunities in Sweden. The idea is not specifically to migrate but just get some expat experience in different countries. End of the day, I intend to return back to India - say after a decade or so.

As a part of my research I have tried to look up at cost of living in sweden. It seems to me that while cost of living specially around big cities like Stockholm is comparable to say Singapore, the salaries are not! For reference, I am not in IT. Broadly speaking sales and business development in manufacturing industry.

How reasonable is my above assessment?

What should be a realistic cost of living (I know varies- but ballpark) for a family of 3 (husband, wife and a 5 year old kid)?

Cheers

Vibbs

[carthick1000]

Originally Posted by vibbs

How reasonable is my above assessment?

What should be a realistic cost of living (I know varies- but ballpark) for a family of 3 (husband, wife and a 5 year old kid)?

I live in NL and have some good friends living in Sweden, whom we visit often. Also just few months ago, another friend of mine in SG was in the same situation as you ie. analyzing offers from Sweden and Denmark. He is also not in IT sector, but in offshore oil and gas industry. The 2 monetary takeaways from the discussions were almost the same as your assessment.

1. The living costs are almost the same as in SG, not only in big cities but also in tier 1 cities and semi-urban areas, except the housing costs might come down (in tier-1/semi-urban) but still mobility/commute costs+time increase. So in the end there is not much difference.

2. The package offered to him in SG and Sweden (& Denmark) is comparable, give or take a few hundreds. But the taxes eat up quite a lot of the take home. This is something you should do the calculation for your situation.

But, the discussion of migrating to a different country should not be restricted to monetary terms alone. Some of the topics I think you should consider are:

1. Your child will be educated in Swedish (even in International schools) and after 10 years, I am not sure if you are okay with taking the kid away from the very culture she grew up. Though kids learn fast, it is something to think of deeply.
2. Are you open and have enough time to tackle the Swedish language and culture? Though Swedish in general are warm people, it takes some time and getting used to forming a social circle. In general for any (European) country, unless you speak the local language, you really miss out the finer things in life.
3. Are you willing to pay very high taxes? But you get what you pay for and even more
4. Well, unlike SG, you can buy cars at reasonable prices and enjoy driving them too around Europe
5. The days are gloomy and cold 8 out of 12 months unlike SG, where it hovers around 25degC all through the year, rain or shine.
6. Are you willing to let go of your current social circle, all the Indian stores/shops/restaurants that are in abundance in SG and come to a completely foreign land to form new social circles?

We did quite some discussions,calculations, Q&As and he decided to stay in SG itself. Because, for him, savings mattered the most as his long term plan is to return back home.

Hope you find the above useful.

Cheers,
Karthik

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by carthick1000

4. Well, unlike SG, you can buy cars at reasonable prices and enjoy driving them too around Europe

That is indeed a big plus about moving to Europe or to North America

Originally Posted by carthick1000

5. The days are gloomy and cold 8 out of 12 months unlike SG, where it hovers around 25degC all through the year, rain or shine.

The so called cooler days hover around 25C. Otherwise 30C and above is the norm

Originally Posted by carthick1000

We did quite some discussions, calculations, Q&As and he decided to stay in SG itself. Because, for him, savings mattered the most as his long term plan is to return back home.

We actually thought about relocation sometime back but then decided to continue at least for another 5 years (my girl should be done with her high school then, and education won't be a factor to consider for relocation. But again, plans can change if something substantial come along