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Old 8th June 2023, 09:05   #16426
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Once we had decided to bowl first, there was no way we could play two spinners. And batting first in those conditions would have been disastorous. No way India would recover from 70/3 like Australia did.

From an armchair critic's point of view (read Eddy) - I would have played only one of Thakur or Umesh and played Unadkat instead. He offers the left arm angle and can hold up an end better than both of them.

Let's hope the new ball does the trick for us early today, and then our batting comes good and then our bowling does better and then our batters chase well. Too much to hope?
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Old 8th June 2023, 09:31   #16427
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Re: The Cricket Thread

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Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Once we had decided to bowl first, there was no way we could play two spinners. And batting first in those conditions would have been disastorous. No way India would recover from 70/3 like Australia did.

From an armchair critic's point of view (read Eddy) - I would have played only one of Thakur or Umesh and played Unadkat instead. He offers the left arm angle and can hold up an end better than both of them.

Let's hope the new ball does the trick for us early today, and then our batting comes good and then our bowling does better and then our batters chase well. Too much to hope?
This team has few problems since Kohli/Shastri combo went away.

1. Dravid is too defensive as a coach. His selection of playing 11 many a times are absolutely baffling. Maybe it was a stupid decision by BCCI to make him full time coach knowing fully well he didn't even wanted the job.

2. Rohit Sharma isn't a good test Captain as people expected cos he won IPL with some great t20 players in their prime. He is mostly injured while playing outside India which is primarily cos of his fitness and also he is ageing. Yesterday he looked clueless so many times. I hope he comes good with bat atleast.

3. Ashwin is our primary match winner since a long time. He and Pant are 2 major reasons we have done so well in tests since few years when Kohli, Pujara, Rahane all struggled big time. Benching him makes no sense cos you always play with your best players. In fact Rahane could have been benched who is anyways mediocre since long and another selection which makes completely no sense based on 3 IPL innings. And they could have played both Jaddu and Ash.

We were discussing on Redditt and all Aussies were so happy Ashwin isn't playing. Anyways I don't see India winning with this bowling attack. Best way forward is to slow down Aussie scoring rate and then bat 4-5 sessions in first innings to take this towards a draw. Especially when day 4 and 5 are Rain forecasted.

Also, no other team in World cricket will bench the No.1 test bowler in the world and No.2 all rounder in the world., that too for a World title Final. Only this dumb management can do it.

Last edited by harry10 : 8th June 2023 at 09:34.
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Old 8th June 2023, 09:48   #16428
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Re: The Cricket Thread

I agree on all counts, except the Rahane - Ashwin swap. That does not feel right. Also, Ashwin is not competing against Jadeja who is a batting all rounder. Ashwin or Thakur is the only remaining question then. Could have gone either way, but for the complexity of wanting to bowl after winning the toss. And Ashwin has been benched for the same reason during the Kohli-Shastri era too.

Not saying he shouldn't play, but I can understand the reason behind him being left out.
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Old 8th June 2023, 09:53   #16429
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Re: The Cricket Thread

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Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
This team has few problems since Kohli/Shastri combo went away.

1. Dravid is too defensive as a coach. His selection of playing 11 many a times are absolutely baffling. Maybe it was a stupid decision by BCCI to make him full time coach knowing fully well he didn't even wanted the job.
Feeling very grumpy after day 1.

I agree. The selection process is indicating a very defensive mindset. Not selecting Ash has turned out to be a big mistake. He is very skilled against the lefties and would have been a handful for Head to handle. More importantly, he would have kept control and he has that dawg in him. He fights. Not selecting Ishan is defensive. Selecting both Rahane and Pujara in the team is defensive. Let's not forget, both of them struggled for years with mid-20 averages before they were mercifully dropped. This pitch is flat. They should have played Surya. I guess The Wall does not believe in the Book of Baz.

Still hoping that Che and Jinx prove me wrong and put on a massive partnership to draw the game for us. I guess Shubman will be the key when we bat.

Last edited by ranjitnair77 : 8th June 2023 at 09:54.
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Old 8th June 2023, 09:57   #16430
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Re: The Cricket Thread

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From an armchair critic's point of view (read Eddy) - I would have played only one of Thakur or Umesh and played Unadkat instead. He offers the left arm angle and can hold up an end better than both of them.
If you really want to play with 4 fast bowlers, why not play with a left armer? Plus he had a good domestic season. Umesh yadav on the other hand didn't play any domestic matches apart from ipl (correct me if wrong). Any sane person would have played j.unadkat for the sheer left arm bowling action and a different perspective to the bowling lineup that has 2 front liners and a bowling allrounder.

I feel it's somewhat a defensive move by Rohit sharma. Hopefully he proves me and others wrong. Hopefully umesh takes a fifer in the morning session.
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Old 8th June 2023, 10:07   #16431
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Re: The Cricket Thread

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I agree on all counts, except the Rahane - Ashwin swap. That does not feel right. Also, Ashwin is not competing against Jadeja who is a batting all rounder. Ashwin or Thakur is the only remaining question then. Could have gone either way, but for the complexity of wanting to bowl after winning the toss. And Ashwin has been benched for the same reason during the Kohli-Shastri era too.

Not saying he shouldn't play, but I can understand the reason behind him being left out.
I don't remember the exact Stat but Ashwin and Jaddu were making more runs than Rahane for a long period of time since covid. And this perception that Ashwin was competing with Thakur and not Jaddu isn't right. Ashwin is a better bowler than Jadeja outside India. In batting they have similar contributions. Jadeja is only better in fielding than Ash. If they can't pick 20 wickets then winning the game is out of question and for that your best bowlers need to play. Umesh and Thakur have no test practice since sometime and Umesh has been extremely ordinary recently and his record outside India is atrocious. Thakur selection still makes sense as all rounder but Umesh over Unadkat doesn't.

Shastri/Kohli did play Ashwin last WTC final and he was our best bowler too. We lost that final cos like always the batsman didn't turn up when needed. Jaddu picked 1 wicket only in that match and Bumrah was wicket less. And still they benched Ashwin this final when he is highest wicket taker this cycle. Once again we won't get an ICC title cos of mistakes repeated again and again.

BTW, Ponting made a very good remark once India announced their squad. He said Indian team has made the selection looking only at the first session and innings and have not thought about the impact Ashwin will make in second innings cos everyone knows Oval spins after 3rd day.

Last edited by harry10 : 8th June 2023 at 10:08.
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Old 8th June 2023, 10:11   #16432
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Going by the intensity of discussions here and elsewhere about the imbalance in team selection as well as the inability of the coach to bring the team out of its defensive shell, one wonders if the entire support structure of the team, starting from the selectors and stretching till the last person on the coaching staff need to be changed, pronto!

Despite a dull first day for us, I am still hopeful of a gradual turnaround on the second and the third days. A few good balls are just what we need today. If we can manage to end the Aussie innings by the third session and then bat out the last one without losing any wickets, we could be looking at an exciting fifth day.

Of late, test cricket has raised our blood pressures like no T20s have. Hope this contest will turn out to be a cliffhanger and not a one sided whitewash.
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Old 8th June 2023, 10:23   #16433
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Don't know about others, but the head coach definitely needs to go. Captain is anyway on his way out with his form, fitness and age. This could well be his last test match.
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Old 8th June 2023, 10:29   #16434
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Gloomy Gus prediction - A loss for us by 200+ runs, late on 4th or early on 5th day.
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Old 8th June 2023, 10:32   #16435
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Re: The Cricket Thread

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Don't know about others, but the head coach definitely needs to go. Captain is anyway on his way out with his form, fitness and age. This could well be his last test match.
Coach and Captain ain't going anywhere. First they will make sure we lose the ODI world cup too and that too on home soil. Then Maybe( big maybe) selectors wake up and do the needful.
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Old 8th June 2023, 10:44   #16436
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Re: The Cricket Thread

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Going by the intensity of discussions here and elsewhere about the imbalance in team selection as well as the inability of the coach to bring the team out of its defensive shell, one wonders if the entire support structure of the team, starting from the selectors and stretching till the last person on the coaching staff need to be changed, pronto!...
OK, let me be the devil's advocate today

There is a reason why, we the armchair critics, are here and the team management there with the team. None of us have even made it to the nationals (heck state level) and we seem to know better than the top 1% of the players, coaching and management staff.

Did we do bad on the first day? Hell yeah.
Do we think Ashwin should have been selected? In hindsight, probably yes. But who knows? What if even Ashwin had played and remained wicketless? We would have strongly criticized the decision to choose him over Umesh or Shardul, perhaps even demanding accountability from Rohit.

Heck, I remember everyone calling for Kohli's head when he kept losing tosses (for no fault of his own) and asking for Rohit to be made captain. One match and we are already fed-up of Rohit?

Let's accept that the Aussies played excellently well on day-1 and that this is a 5 day game.

We might bounce back
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Old 8th June 2023, 11:25   #16437
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Re: The Cricket Thread

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.We might bounce back
Similar hopes here too.

Ideal would be a situation where the pitch doesn't bounce but the Indian players do (bounce back)!

All is not lost yet. A turnaround is very much on the cards. Sooner it happens, the better.
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Old 8th June 2023, 12:02   #16438
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Re: The Cricket Thread

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We might bounce back
Hope so but not too sure about that after conceding over 300 runs on the first day and only taking 3 wickets, considering we opted to bowl first.

On top of that, best bowler in the team is still warming the bench, and we are talking about winning a test with 2 batting allrounders, but we forget that we need bowlers to take 20 wickets. Not saying Ashwin would win us the match, only that it would give the best shot to pick up wickets.

Somehow, he ends up warming the bench when it comes to matches played outside and when Jadeja is in the squad. It's the same story whether it is Kohli-Shastri or Rahul-Rohit combo
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Old 8th June 2023, 12:45   #16439
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Well, we do hope team shows more spine today and bowls much better than yesterday. It was nice for Kohli to say Smith is the best test batsman of this generation. On a lighter note something I saw on Redditt-
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Old 8th June 2023, 15:31   #16440
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Regarding Ashwin, he was instrumental with bat in our series win in Australia. Now that Shardul isn't performing well with ball we can say Ashwin would have been better but we never know. Maybe Ash would have gone wicketless and we would have criticized that decision as well.
My two cents, considering this match is at Oval which traditionally supports bit of spin as match goes on and there is prediction that it will turn on Day 4 and Day 5 maybe could have gone with Ashwin.
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