[harry10]

Originally Posted by sachinayak

Knowing upfront that you are going to play at one venue through-out the tournament is a big advantage (without any doubt). Specially, when all other teams have to balance their squad with a mix of pacers (for pitches in Pakistan) and spinners (for pitches in UAE) vs India, which only needs to include a good set of spinners in the squad, knowing they will only play on one pitch.

On a side note - England does not have a backlog of spinners to take advantage even if they were in the current situation.

Every team barring Pak has a balanced squad.
Even England had Rehan Ahmed who could have helped with spin bowling but as usual they think raw pace will do wonders.

Look at Aussies today. Their part timer spinner Short has figures of 7 overs for 21 runs. And that's on a Lahore pitch. Many people are missing a basic fact. Pakistan proposal for India was simple- come and play in Pakistan for the tournament and all Indian matches will be at Lahore which is close to the India Pak border. So, how is it any different from India playing all matches in Dubai.

No one spoke about advantage and disadvantage when India lost 2 consecutive WTC final because they were in England which gives more advantage to NZ and Australian team. Not a single Commentator or ex player who are talking about advantage now said a single word about it then. I didn't see India giving excuses then and we just blamed our players for not being good enough.

It's especially funny coming from Pak players who for most of their life have played in UAE as their home ground.

Also, we just lost 1 game in ODI WC23 which unfortunately was the final. Didn't lose a single game in winning the T20 2024 world cup. So, maybe we are the best side in white ball cricket and don't need such small advantages to win.

[hothatchaway]

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

You talk of bloodshed but the fact remains that India has all kinds of relations with Pakistan including trade. It's only cricket where this sentiment that you talk about, comes along. Why send the Indian Tennis team to play bilateral Davis Cup competition in Islamabad then ?? Aren't they part of India too?? The tennis team travelled as recent as February and won the match comfortably.

https://www.thehindu.com/sport/tenni...le67810486.ece

My point is simple- If you want to cut off relations, do it completely. This selective cutting off relations when it comes to cricket only happens because of the clout of the BCCI and nothing else.

My last post on this topic.

This is a very pertinent point, this muscle flexing by BCCI and I am not sure if this is paying any dividends apart from some mileage gained off the field. What with the overwhelming emotions that cricket generates in our country and how it is often confused with patriotism.

None of us here are aware of what tangible threat perception existed for the Indian team touring Pakistan, but we did visit for a bilateral series in 2004, and cricket has done much to boost people to people ties across the border. Of course, it does nothing for the vested interests on either side of the border who would want to keep fomenting hate. At a personal level, it would have been great for our boys to make the trip and perhaps lift the champions Trophy there. The playing surfaces that I see would have suited us to the tee. Such visits at least helps weaken any misgivings that the common man may have for their blood brothers across the border. With the way things are going currently, BCCI may feel compelled to not send the team to Bangladesh next. It won't be a stretch to detect a threat perception beyond the eastern frontier too!

Some of us may detect a touch of irony at Dubai being now seen as a safe haven for the Indian team. We had sworn off a place not very far from Dubai called Sharjah not too long ago. There was no threat to physical security on that occasion I imagine.

[NomadSK]

Let’s get back to cricket on field and not which is being played behind the closed doors. There will always be different thoughts on either side.

Vidarbha and Kerala are locked in a tense battle for the Ranji Trophy title. Vidarbha took first innings lead over Kerala by mere 37 runs. Kerala’s run of close shaves continues with QF win with 1 run over J&K, SF win with 2 runs over Gujarat and now this, although this wouldn't turn into a winning cause.

Although Kerala looked they were trying tooth and nail, but their batsmen looked too defensive even on loose deliveries, specially when they had wickets in hands, probably first final playing pressure and Baby playing a slog sweep at 98. Why baby why ? Meanwhile, Karun nair would have played for Kerala, if they would have considered his willingness to join their team at the start of the season.

Kerala still have time to go for outright win, but it looks difficult now with the batting line up Vidarbha has and with the slender lead. Would be an interesting last 2 days surely to go for outright win, Kerala will have to give in everything on the field.

Looks like Harsh Dubey & Karun Nair would be on selectors radar, but who gives 2 hoots about performances in domestic circuit.

[harry10]

Aussies are cruising right now.
HEAD is doing head things once again.
Afghan boys are clearly 30-40 runs short due to their Captain. Baffles me how a guy with 67 SR in ODI is made Captain of the team. Atrocious innings today which killed all momentum of the team.

An India vs Australia ICC final if it happens will be spicy. Although I still want Afghan boys to turn this around.

By the way, Buttler just resigned so whose gonna Captain tomorrow. Let it be the motor mouth Ben Duckett so we can get more memes.

[NomadSK]

Jos Butler has stepped down as England’s captain. Right decision after the drubbing they got in CT and the writing was on the walls.

I wish our lethargic captain would have done the same after BGT debacle and having regular failures match after match, series after series. Thanks to SKY’s catch, else he would not even feature in Ranji probables for Mumbai.

link

[ABHI_1512]

Originally Posted by Eddy

Are you implying that an Indian tennis player, who even you and I might not be able to recognize on the street, faces the same security threat in Pakistan as Virat Kohli? You must be kidding me!

Regarding the ground invasion, I would be a lot more worried if the invader carried a poster of an extremist, compared to a regular fan in India.

Doesn’t matter if it is Virat Kohli or Yuki Bhambri. The players are representing the country and hence the security is for an Indian national. If it is a security threat for Virat Kohli and company then it’s a security threat for Yuki Bhambri and company as well. Since when we have started to view security from the popularity of a sport ??

During the 2004 Pakistan series, Sourav Ganguly has said on record that the security thing was so strict that he along with his teammates ventured onto the streets without informing the security. Do you want me to believe that Saurav Ganguly and his teammates were any less popular than Virat Kohli ?

As for the ground invasion, it’s a worldwide trend to gain attention. Happens around the world and has happened in India too. Hell, a pitch invader in recent times held a banner involving Free Palestine and hugged Virat Kohli at Ahmedabad of all places. I am sure you will agree that pitch invaders really don’t hurt any player. Never happened if I recollect correctly. Yes, it’s a security lapse true but not certainly something that doesn’t happen elsewhere.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/tr...-11767931.html

Virat Kohli must have been scared whenthis happened with him live in his hometown- New Delhi. Banner or no banner !!

Source: https://www.hindustantimes.com/crick...391395093.html

Originally Posted by DigitalOne

Let's be clear - Hugging, without consent, is an assault under law in any civilized country (not sure about Pakistan though).

I think you have little difficulty in comprehending what I wrote previously. The man you are talking about was arrested and banned from entering any cricket venue after producing him in court. Now that’s civilised enough for you or not, I have really no idea. Thanks for your views though, helped me immensely in understanding that people do have variety of plausible reasons of seeing a very obvious thing !!

Originally Posted by harry10

No one spoke about advantage and disadvantage when India lost 2 consecutive WTC final because they were in England which gives more advantage to NZ and Australian team. Not a single Commentator or ex player who are talking about advantage now said a single word about it then. I didn't see India giving excuses then and we just blamed our players for not being good enough.

You wanted to see commentators/ ex players criticising the scheduling of WTC final on a neutral ground where neither of teams had home advantage ? Am I reading it right ? Or do you wanted home advantage for India ?

Originally Posted by NomadSK

Let’s get back to cricket on field and not which is being played behind the closed doors.

Looks like Harsh Dubey & Karun Nair would be on selectors radar, but who gives 2 hoots about performances in domestic circuit.

Agree with you totally when you say that domestic performances don’t count. Come IPL and we will have decided everything during and after the tournament. I doubt the selectors have watched Harsh Dubey in action, even once. Earlier there was at least a press conference where the chief selector fielded questions on the team selection, now that’s gone too. No one is answerable- that’s the motto these days.

[harry10]

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

You wanted to see commentators/ ex players criticising the scheduling of WTC final on a neutral ground where neither of teams had home advantage ? Am I reading it right ? Or do you wanted home advantage for India ?

Is it really a neutral ground?
Everyone knows SENA countries have an advantage playing final on an England pitch. The same way India will have an advantage if WTC final will be played on a SL pitch. I have no issues with India playing the final where it was pre decided by ICC and agreed by all boards. Likewise this Dubai thing was decided by ICC and agreed by all boards.

So, why create a controversy now when India has won 2 games and that too against low level teams. And Bangladesh win wasn't even an easy one. They still haven't won against the top teams. Lesse what happens tomorrow against NZ.

Edit- Rohit is injured so Gill is going to have his captaincy debut tomorrow. Will be fun to see how he does.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

Doesn’t matter if it is Virat Kohli or Yuki Bhambri. The players are representing the country and hence the security is for an Indian national. If it is a security threat for Virat Kohli and company then it’s a security threat for Yuki Bhambri and company as well. Since when we have started to view security from the popularity of a sport ??

Yes.

I firmly believe that the security threat to a Virat Kohli is much much higher than a Yuki Bhambri. And yes, the security threat is directly proportional to the popularity of an individual and hence the impact in case of a successful attempt to harm him/her.

In fact, if you think that the security threat to Yuki Bhambri = Virat Kohli then our viewpoint is so divergent that there is no point in discussing this further.

[ABHI_1512]

Originally Posted by Eddy

Yes.

I firmly believe that the security threat to a Virat Kohli is much much higher than a Yuki Bhambri. And yes, the security threat is directly proportional to the popularity of an individual and hence the impact in case of a successful attempt to harm him/her.

In fact, if you think that the security threat to Yuki Bhambri = Virat Kohli then our viewpoint is so divergent that there is no point in discussing this further.

Okay, I guess I was not explicit enough in my previous posts. Let’s make one thing clear first,

No, I don’t think that the security threat is the same for every individual. It can never be and that’s almost basic thinking. The security that a Yuki Bhambri gets will always be different from what Virat Kohli gets and you are right is saying so. What I meant is that threat perception applies to every individual. It can’t be that Virat Kohli needs to be protected and not Yuki Bhambri !! Players are our national asset, everyone needs protection.

I am not here to compare the security threats. If the host nation says we can provide security then that’s the way to go. No country on earth can provide full proof guarantee of security but we can always talk about the steps taken. The thing about pitch invasion is a silly point to judge security of any tournament and hope you also agree to that.

My initial point still stands and that BCCI holds enormous clout in world cricket and which is taking the fairness out of the game at many levels. Whether you agree or not is entirely up to you and I don’t have any issue with that. Ultimately, players have to play the game and it’s a pity that we don’t have enough silverware to show !!

@harry10- A WTC final played at a neutral venue is a real test of a country. One cannot but play on all surfaces to come out a winner of WTC. Our greatest triumphs have come on the English soil, wonder what Kapil Dev and his team would react to your viewpoint !!

ICC is a joke now and completely dominated by BCCI and we all know that. That is what I was talking at the first place ! Every other board knows that BCCI is the moneybag and that is why BCCI gets everything their way. Hope this clears.

Now, let’s talk cricket and move on from this.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by ABHI_1512

Okay, I guess I was not explicit enough in my previous posts. Let’s make one thing clear first,

I think you were quite explicit in what you said -

Since when we have started to view security from the popularity of a sport ??"

Players are our national asset, everyone needs protection.
.

Now that you are saying this, and admitting that security threat is different for different individuals. Hence Yuki might get a security cordon or not, depending on the government's assessment. You and I will definitely not get one. And because Virat is Virat, the decision was that it is not safe to travel to Pakistan. So different methods to deal with varied threat levels.

If the host nation says we can provide security then that’s the way to go.

This is Pakistan we are talking about. 6 killled in a bomb blast today.

The thing about pitch invasion is a silly point to judge security of any tournament and hope you also agree to that.

Again, I don't agree. Pitch invasion by a regular fan is different from pitch invasion by a fanatic.

My initial point still stands

.

No, it does not. You began the discussion by saying that BCCI has fixed everything to ensure India wins, including the choice of venue. You then called the WC23 match a joke & implied fixing of the outcome (including the post-match ceremony).

BCCI holds enormous clout in world cricket

This I agree, and I am thankful for it.

The BCCI has enough clout to not risk the security of the players and get away with it.

Originally Posted by harry10

Edit- Rohit is injured so Gill is going to have his captaincy debut tomorrow. Will be fun to see how he does.

Day after, not tomorrow (you posted on 28th Feb). The BCCI has fixed the schedule to ensure India gets enough rest and therefore win the trophy.

[ABHI_1512]

Originally Posted by Eddy

I think you were quite explicit in what you said -


Now that you are saying this, and admitting that security threat is different for different individuals. Hence Yuki might get a security cordon or not, depending on the government's assessment. You and I will definitely not get one. And because Virat is Virat, the decision was that it is not safe to travel to Pakistan. So different methods to deal with varied threat levels.

This is Pakistan we are talking about.

Again, I don't agree. Pitch invasion by a regular fan is different from pitch invasion by a fanatic.

No, it does not. You began the discussion by saying that BCCI has fixed everything to ensure India wins, including the choice of venue. You then called the WC23 match a joke & implied fixing of the outcome (including the post-match ceremony).

This I agree, and I am thankful for it.

The BCCI has enough clout to not risk the security of the players and get away with it.

Everything is tailor made for India to win including the choice of venue. BCCI has done everything possible to make the team win the Champions Trophy, it’s now upto the players.

This was my initial post. If you make out that I implied that BCCI has FIXED everything then I guess my English is too bad for people to understand !

And indeed it looks like that since you also thought I called the WC FINAL match a joke ..while contrary to what you think I was referring to the pitch fiasco as mentioned by fellow member PPS. And I have also cleared that that I was only referring to the post match ceremony which played along the expected lines. Anyways, I have cleared myself enough already through the thread. Don’t wish to indulge in this further. You are free to deduce anything to your liking.

And thanks for making a differentiation between pitch invaders. I wonder what happened to the person who was holding a Free Palestine poster and hugged Virat Kohli on the field at Ahmedabad. I hope that he was dealt on with kid gloves and that the regular fans who made Virat Kohli uncomfortable at FerozShah Kotla were taken as just innocent fans as well. Obviously, I don’t understand cricket that much as you do. My bad !!

[Eddy]

Yeah, let’s end this and agree to disagree.

You are saying Pakistan is safe for the Indian cricket team to travel because Pakistan claims it is. And you believe them. But you don’t believe our govt when it says Pakistan tour is not on. The real reason govt didn’t allow the team to go to Pakistan is because it wanted BCCI to tailor everything including the choice of venue to help us win.

And I don’t agree with any of the above.

Let’s move on!

[AtheK]

Regarding WTC, the rule should change for hosting final. I suggest that the winner of WTC should get the right to host next final. It is anyway not a conclusion that they will feature in the final again, but in case they do, they should be allowed to defend the title in front of their home crowd.

England hosting all finals is just plain stupid.

[Asish_VK]

The Ranji trophy final seems more interesting than the Champions trophy.

Kerala had a great chance to secure a lead in the first innings. Sachin Baby, after a well-fought 98, departs at a crucial junction of the match, and the rest of the batters go into a shell. I believe they could've tried to score runs instead of trying to defend all balls until the end of the day. Anyway, the last 2 days will be very interesting. Both the teams deserve to win.

[Joeboy]

I won't be surprised if India wins the Champions Trophy since they are playing in Dubai and the pitches are tailor made to suit Indian spinners. The real challenge for India would be to win the 2027 WC which will be played in South Africa. Let us see.