[mpksuhas]

Originally Posted by ankan.m.blr

What is happening in ORR? It's midnight and still dark red on ORR at Kadubisenahalli!

If this is how it looks in morning, screenshot of yours doesn't look that bad



If not due to the road work mentioned above, usual culprit for jam over there is checking for drunken driving.

[Mukund]

To all my fellow Bengalurians who complain of the chaos(just like me), this is a product of development, where the government is behind the governed. And please do remember who elected these government's. We chose this method and these are the downsides of this method. I personally don't think there is a solution to this problem, we will have to live through it, but if we had better options we would've taken it haven't we?

To all the old heads(without calling names) calling bangalore a retiree's paradise, yes it was(when my grandpa first came here in the early 60's), when very less young people wanted to come here, now that it isn't there are many other equally pleasant places to be. Please don't bemoan and blame the 'outsiders' for they have/had no control over the governance of the city and have only contributed.

And finally to those who wish to leave to tier 2 cities or villages, by all means, please do so, no point ranting.

[shamanth]

Originally Posted by am1m

Public transport is also public/city infrastructure.

There is some merit to translocation of trees. But that is a lot of effort and has a chance of failing.

Yes, Public transport is also infrastructure, but its not the ONLY infrastructure needed in high-density population cities of south-Asia.

Yes there will be effort and issues translocating trees, but if govt is ready to spend 33k crores, we should ask govt to spend few Lakh to do translocation instead of blindly sitting on dharna to shelve the project.

Originally Posted by msdivy

Last mile connectivity: BMTC is a commercial enterprise and a monopoly for 80 years. Why they don't have last mile connectivity is best known to them.

Fully agree with you, that is the reason they have cancelled almost all metro feeder service as it was not making profit. None of the cities in world make profit in public transport, it needs govt support and funding, which is not happening.

[fordday]

Originally Posted by shamanth

Yes, Public transport is also infrastructure, but its not the ONLY infrastructure needed in high-density population cities of south-Asia.

Agree Public transport is not the only medium, but it should take most of the load of transportation. But this is not happening now in Bangalore. With all of us taking our private vehicles everyday, it is never going to solve the congestion no matter how many elevated corridors (EC) are built.

Bangalore roads are not that small and have umpteen number of flyovers and elevated roads, but our average speed is still like 10 kmph.

I will give my example.
I commute from BTM via silkboard to ORR. Supposed to be one of the India's most congested stretch. It takes me 1.5 hours to cover a distance of 10 kms. I have two cars but do not take either instead go with carpool. If you give me a traffic free elevated corridor taking a normal time of 20 mins to cover the stretch, I will take my car everyday. Perhaps my spouse working in the same direction will also take hers.
And then we will land up in the same condition as today.

There is something called Induced demand theory which says any amount of increase in road infrastructure will be soon gobbled up by additional vehicles.

Originally Posted by shamanth

Yes there will be effort and issues translocating trees, but if govt is ready to spend 33k crores, we should ask govt to spend few Lakh to do translocation instead of blindly sitting on dharna to shelve the project.

I don't know where you come from but the people who are opposing the elevated corridor project are doing so with valid reasons. Some of the best brains in transportation engineering gave their inputs with simulated study and data on how the EC is not going to help us.

Karnataka govt, typical of any govt, decided to take up the project without any stakeholder consultation, without any feasibility study, without trying to explore other options, without completing prior commitments.

All that the people opposing it is asking for proper analysis, study, stake holder inclusion, completion of committed projects like Metro, Suburban rail, Bus rapid transport. There are also some low hanging fruits like streamlining BMTC bus operations, bike taxi, allowing private sector buses etc. After all of this if the need still arises for EC, lets have it.

The story behind EC is that one guy (lets not name him) went to govt asking for 3000 buses, govt says not possible. He then asks bus corridor, priority lane, again govt says no. He then suggests 25k Cr elevated corridor, there is a resounding Yessss! from the govt.

Kar Road Dev Corpn has been assigned to do a feasibility study and as expected, they came with a 35k cr EC.

I will stop here for people to think for themselves.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Mukund

And finally to those who wish to leave to tier 2 cities or villages, by all means, please do so, no point ranting.

Thanks for the permission! BTW, the title of this thread is 'Rants..."

If any content is not suitable, we have mods to tell us that, thank you very much.

Originally Posted by shamanth

...instead of blindly sitting on dharna to shelve the project.

It's only your assumption that people are 'blindly sitting on dharna'. If you read through the objections to the proposal, they are well-researched and well-thought out.

[shamanth]

Originally Posted by fordday

..All that the people opposing it is asking for proper analysis, study, stake holder inclusion, completion of committed projects like Metro, Suburban rail, Bus rapid transport. There are also some low hanging fruits like streamlining BMTC bus operations, bike taxi, allowing private sector buses etc. After all of this if the need still arises for EC, lets have it.

My point is, Lets not keep proposals on road improvement hostage to govt agreeing to other public transport improvement. Some of these projects where state govt is not even stake holder like Suburban rail. BRT was tried in Delhi and failed in few days, which has bigger wider roads than Bangalore.

[binand]

Originally Posted by shamanth

My point is, Lets not keep proposals on road improvement hostage to govt agreeing to other public transport improvement. .

As long as proposals are just that, this is fine. The moment money starts being spent on implementation people of Bangalore are justified in asking what the net result is going to be, and whether an alternate project wouldn't deliver better results.

As of date, there is nothing from the government that lists out the benefits of EC and a comparison with all the other projects people are asking for. The predominant view is that EC is primarily a long-distance private vehicle travel option with nothing in it for the public transport users (they can't send BMTC buses over the EC because there can't be bus stops for example).

Originally Posted by shamanth

Some of these projects where state govt is not even stake holder like Suburban rail.

Where did you get that from? The Suburban rail project is supposed to be implemented as an SPV with equal share to KA government and IR.

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by shamanth

Fully agree with you, that is the reason they have cancelled almost all metro feeder service as it was not making profit. None of the cities in world make profit in public transport, it needs govt support and funding, which is not happening.

BMTC is one of the few Govt enterprises which making profit. There is an occasional loss, but overall it does not lose money.

On the Metro feeder buses, BMTC has got it wrong. They are running long buses and hence it can run only on regular BMTC routes, and so the route already exists. So no benefit of additional feeder buses. Secondly, it must be frequent. Right now its something like 1 bus per hour, which doesn't benefit. Thirdly, not all the feeder routes are efficient. There is Volvo feeder bus from Silkboard to SV metro station which is 14 Km of travel. But the nearest metro is 6Km (Rashtreeya Vidyalaya Road). Even Banashankari is 7Km. Why would anybody go to SV Road from Silkboard for metro?

[shamanth]

Originally Posted by binand

As long as proposals are just that, this is fine. The moment money starts being spent on implementation people of Bangalore are justified in asking what the net result is going to be, and whether an alternate project wouldn't deliver better results.

Who will justify which project is correct or not, few 100s of so called intellectuals, environmentalist, etc. or our representatives elected by millions of common people. Lets not try to run parallel govt. It will just lead to policy paralysis and chaos

[am1m]

Originally Posted by shamanth

Who will justify which project is correct or not, few 100s of so called intellectuals, environmentalist, etc. or our representatives elected by millions of common people. Lets not try to run parallel govt. It will just lead to policy paralysis and chaos

How did 'few 100s' reverse the decision of reps elected by millions?

Perhaps it was more than a 'few 100s'? If the EC was really being backed by millions/the majority of Bangaloreans, then 'few 100s' should not have been able to stop it right? Why did the HC agree to a stay order? A 'few 100s' can influence that as well?

Perhaps basic assumptions are wrong here.

Originally Posted by msdivy

On the Metro feeder buses, BMTC has got it wrong.

BMTC never wanted to run those feeder buses. The early days saw several squabbles between the BMRCL and BMTC over whose responsibility these feeder buses were. I took the feeder buses in the initial days of the Bangalore Metro and trust me, the way they were run, it seemed like they were deliberately trying to discourage people from using them. One day the bus started from one place, the next at another. One day they had xyz stops, literally the next day the same bus changed route. Naturally even the few people stopped using them and BMTC had a great excuse to stop them!

The issue is no one is thinking of a complete public transport system. BMRCL runs x metro trains a day and they think that's enough, that's our job. Access to stations, last mile connectivity, etc., apparently not their issue. BMTC thinks, we run buses, that's it. Distance from stops to metro stations, bus shelters, etc., not their issue.

Personally, I think feeder buses and last mile connectivity should be a BMRCL issue. Let them privatize it if BMTC can't do the job. As it is you'll see enough private tempos and maxicabs picking up people and dropping them at metro stations so there is a demand that can be met.

A feeder service will not make a profit initially. Look at the Vayu Vajaras, Bangalore Airport Buses. Initial days, everyone was skeptical. The buses used to run with only a few passengers. Gradually people realized they were reliable and now each one is full, people even stand and go. Another lesson on public transport here, the airport buses have not reduced the cab and private vehicle flow to the airport. What it does is it gives those who choose to use them a saner and safer way to get there. Those who still want to use their private transport or trust a sleepy cabbie, that's their call.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by shamanth

None of the cities in world make profit in public transport

https://www.theatlantic.com/china/ar...system/279528/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...t-in-hong-kong

[sachinpk]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

3. Bus stops need to be placed thoughtfully. BMTC buses just pile up and occupy entire road.

I had used BMTC on a daily basis (with a monthly basis) on two occassions - for a period of three months. Both were when I was on the last stages of changing my employement, which meant I was on a kind of "suspended with pay" mode *. Chandapura is now become a major town in between Hosur and Bangalore. The roads have got widened and it is neatly laid out too. There were 8-10 ways to criss-cross the junction, which led to chaos here. A smart Police Inspector from Attibele brought the situation under control by making all traffic move in a "circular fashion". The next problem came from BMTC. BMTC buses park right in the middle of the roads coming from Anekal & Dommasandra side. This being a trunk route have a large number of BMTC buses as well.

Originally Posted by msdivy

While metro is a good option, the lines are already crowded and during peak hours it is a hassle to get & get out of the train. Suburban train service is a horrible experience. Trains are less and are at odd hours. Most of the times they start late and reach the destination almost 1 hour late. It is good on paper. Reality is a different experience.

The metro lines are crowded because the # of coaches was decided based on a Bangalore of 2002 vintage. My understanding is that metro terminus was at Bayyappanahalli because in 2002 the city pretty much ended after Indira Nagar. KJM was just a railway junction and small town. But metro at least has been able to bring in some reduction in the number of road users. I agree suburban train system in Bengaluru is a complete mess, and I don't think any one who has strict work hours can ever use it with ease. On the IT belt of KJM, CRLM and HLE we only have a single line which is also shared by express and goods trains. I am seeing some progress in the signalling system in the BYPL-HSRA section, and rumours of a line doubling.

* BMTC bus journeys perhaps a require a thread all by itself. I saw many aspects of Bangalore which I never saw from a car. At least twice every weak I had seen blind people boarding the bus. They board the bus with a trust that some one would help them get a seat, call out a bus stop for them and help them get down. And 99.9% time, their trust was not broken. Many a time I myself had an opportunity to help these people get down and then board another bus. Another sight was "under trial" prisoners being brought back to the C.P at Parappana Agrahara. The police men on escort duty never made a big scene, they boarded the bus with the remand prisoner (in civilian clothes). Only on closer look I could see a hand cuff placed on one hand (both the cuffs were usually put on the same hand).

[shamanth]

Originally Posted by am1m

How did 'few 100s' reverse the decision of reps elected by millions?

Perhaps it was more than a 'few 100s'? If the EC was really being backed by millions/the majority of Bangaloreans, then 'few 100s' should not have been able to stop it right? Why did the HC agree to a stay order? A 'few 100s' can influence that as well?

These are just a distortion, these projects will come back. Just like how people stopped or delayed release of some movies.

Originally Posted by am1m

https://www.theatlantic.com/china/ar...system/279528/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...t-in-hong-kong

You are talking about 1 or 2 exceptions. In general terms more than 90% are making losses, supported by govt.

Even KSRTC/BMTC was only profit making institute till last couple of year, from 10 year.

[AltoLXI]

Originally Posted by shamanth

These are just a distortion, these projects will come back.

If the projects come back, it is unfortunate. Bengaluru "development" has become sophisticated term now for certain section of society. A city, that is a golden goose, that can be exploited to the maximum. These 100 people realize whom these projects are going to help. Hence the protest.

What is the point in having more roads, flyovers and all the concrete stuff around when the quality of the life has plummeted? With ground water receding fast due to all the construction around us, why destroy the very little of lung space that is left in Bengaluru? The future generations will curse us for destroying the once verdant city.

If the powers to be were so interested in "development" of the country, will they ask the industries/people to move out of Bengaluru? Why should the software industry be located in Bengaluru? Why not in Kolar or Bellary?

[binand]

Originally Posted by shamanth

Who will justify which project is correct or not, few 100s of so called intellectuals, environmentalist, etc. or our representatives elected by millions of common people.

Of course it has to be the experts.

The elected representatives are elected not because they are experts in all the areas of knowledge. Their raison d'etre is to obtain and balance the views of informed people - environmentalists, urban development professionals, economists, social scientists, city planners, legal experts etc. and to put forward the most optimal solution that achieves the policy objectives on the basis of which they solicited office for acceptance of all stakeholder groups.