[NPV]

Originally Posted by shamanth

At-least we are responsible for blocking projects for removing bottlenecks.
...
And we are in same spot, voicing to improve public transport, removing bottlenecks. And nothing happens.

Widening of roads (and chopping trees in the process) is not the solution for traffic woes, rather the focus should be on improving public transport to reduce the traffic on the roads.

[sachinpk]

Originally Posted by am1m

I really enjoyed Bangalore in my teens and 20s, it's when I entered my 30s and the daily routine kicked in that I began to consider the other aspects like the pollution, commute, etc and no longer consider it an ideal place to live. A lot of younger teammates I get to interact with daily too absolutely love life here.

Most of us here should be new-entrants to the city who came in during late 1990s to mid 2000s (correct me if I am wrong here). And at that time Bengaluru was still a "retirees' paradise". And to be frank in those days commute etc. was not a problem (even for a person who was not very young). The city was not big as it is today, there were lesser people and lesser vehicles to navigate through. And guess people also did not have much money to throw around.

Now spending 15-20 years we have seen how the city landscape changed and we are also growing older. Priorities change, and then we realise that many of the "simple things" which we did earlier were not simple any more. But for a young man/woman who have landed in Bangalore recently; for them this is still a new world and new city. Especially if they are here with their first job etc. Most of them would be bachelors/spinsters and they have good avenues to enjoy life. They are also willing to stay in PGs which are as good as the cellular prison Andamans, but if that helps them to save money to spend on some more luxuries, who am I to complain .

From conversations with several female colleagues who grew up in small towns and have moved to Bangalore for work, I understand that life back home was not exactly ideal and they much prefer the freedom and opportunities that a city like Bangalore offers them. From my interactions with professionals over nearly 20 years, I find that it's usually the men who dream of 'going back home to their village someday', none of the women colleagues from smaller towns want to return.

Being a typical man who dream of 'going back home to their village someday' I agree with you 100%. My sample size would be mainly people in Kerala, but you are right. Many women just do not wish to go back to their home towns, and are happy to make just occassional visits. I guess it is the feeling that society is "conservative" which makes them feel this way. Bangalore always had an image of being less conservative, but that is also not 100% true. Christ students accuse woman cop of moral policing; reports today's Deccan Herald. And the using catapult and grains on women wearing "skimpy clothes", I guess is a new phenomenon here.

And to be frank even me too have now two thoughts on going back to the village/small town from where I come from. I guess many of us men are nostalgic about our home towns and we wish to get back there. But there is a catch, our own small home towns have now become small sized cities. At least in the town from where I come from (now marked as a city), traffic jams are daily occurence. Apartments have replaced the old independent houses. Parking woes, and even driving in the central part of the town is a night mare. And the whole are has changed. The old tea-shops, way side eateries; have all been replaced with the same Pizza Hut, Dominos, Swiggy stuff which we see in Bangalore. The new generation are also as tech savvy and wants to chill out. The only saving grace for the nostalgic people could be meeting up with some of our old friends, who some how have managed to stay in the same place and make a living. But for them too, their priorities would have changed.

Originally Posted by gtonsing

Nothing about road signs, signage, traffic rules, silent zones, lane discipline, speeding or anything that we are talking about here. So, no wonder we see drivers who are driving the way they do

Actually it is there in the syllabus. 25 years back when I got my first license, one part of the test was a kind of viva-voce with the MVI. He asked me about the mandatory, cautionary signals and also about some popular sections of MV Act like Sec.3 etc. And we also had to show the "overtake me" hand sign (right hand fully extended and then make an arc from the back to the front).

[am1m]

Originally Posted by sachinpk

And to be frank even me too have now two thoughts on going back to the village/small town from where I come from.

I guess it's a case of the 'grass is greener syndrome'! I was born and raised in Bangalore, been a resident for almost 40 years now, and I'm dreaming of leaving by the time I'm 50 to go to a smaller town! Can't imagine living here as an older person.

But perhaps things will have improved by then, can't say. Maybe the Metro will be complete and will really cover the city. Perhaps the kind of planning already being implemented in the city center - wider footpaths, Cubbon Park closed for traffic on both days of the weekend, a better pedestrian culture, etc. will have spread to other parts of the city. Perhaps good suburbs with decent tree cover and facilities will have come up, connected to the main city by the Metro and e-rickshaws and e-bikes for last mile connectivity. Work from home may become the norm by then, so no need to commute.

Possible definitely. Probable? Or too much to hope for? Can't say.

[shamanth]

Originally Posted by NPV

Widening of roads (and chopping trees in the process) is not the solution for traffic woes, rather the focus should be on improving public transport to reduce the traffic on the roads.

Just harping on improving public transport without focusing on infrastructure wont take us anywhere. 100's of empty volvo buses plying in ORR has not solved traffic there, in-fact has made it worse.

We have to be open to suggestions, we cannot always get stuck in hard-line stance, no widening or building of flyovers ever in Bangalore. it might not be cutting of trees, instead could focus on re-planting of same tree. Lets be give constructive suggestion instead of blocking everything on infrastructure.

[binand]

Originally Posted by shamanth

We have to be open to suggestions, we cannot always get stuck in hard-line stance, no widening or building of flyovers ever in Bangalore.[...] Lets be give constructive suggestion instead of blocking everything on infrastructure.

I don't think there is a "no-widening-no-flyovers" stance adopted by anyone that has traction. The objection is to spending an obscene amount of money (33K Crore) on the elevated corridor. A fraction of that money can make projects like suburban rail network, increase in bus fleet and last-mile connectivity, improvements in enforcement etc. doable.

One thing I heard recently is that Metro is being curtailed to fund the elevated corridor project: https://www.deccanherald.com/city/be...ct-725388.html. How is this beneficial to the city's commuters?

[am1m]

Originally Posted by binand

The objection is to spending an obscene amount of money (33K Crore) on the elevated corridor.

And the very logical and easily observable/verifiable objection that road-widening really does not help in the long-term. The number of vehicles just increases to fill up the newly widened road and one lane on either side just becomes de-facto parking space.

Originally Posted by shamanth

Just harping on improving public transport without focusing on infrastructure wont take us anywhere.

Public transport is also public/city infrastructure.

Originally Posted by shamanth

it might not be cutting of trees, instead could focus on re-planting of same tree.

There is some merit to translocation of trees. But that is a lot of effort and has a chance of failing. If cutting down fully-grown trees in the city is being justified by planting saplings somewhere outside, well I think the objections to that are pretty self-evident and justified themselves!

[shamanth]

Originally Posted by binand

The objection is to spending an obscene amount of money (33K Crore) on the elevated corridor. A fraction of that money can make projects like suburban rail network, increase in bus fleet and last-mile connectivity, improvements in enforcement etc. doable.

Lets say govt is ready to spend 33k Crore on this elevated corridor in Bangalore, that itself is a big thing. How often we hear such things on improving on infrastructure ? Your excuses might be corruption might be there and all, but even if govt will invest in public transport same corruption is there. At-least govt is ready to invest something on infrastructure in Bangalore which might not buy them much votes, lets support it.

Its the same argument govt is spending obscene amount of money on defense when poor don't have anything to eat.

Do you think by stopping elevated corridor, will automatically funds will get transferred to suburban rail network, increase in bus fleet and last-mile connectivity, improvements in enforcement? No, almost unlikely.

So at the end nothing changes, neither you get improvement in infra or in public transport.

Both can be developed parallel, lets drop the thinking that if we block infrastructure by protests govt will invest in public transport. Its been 2 years since govt was forced to shelve Hebbal project. Neither traffic bottle-neck was solved, neither public transport improved in Hebbal area.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by shamanth

Do you think by stopping elevated corridor, will automatically funds will get transferred to suburban rail network, increase in bus fleet and last-mile connectivity, improvements in enforcement? No, almost unlikely.

True, pretty unlikely now. But perhaps in the long term, elected reps will see that their chances of getting elected depend on backing the kind of projects the public is not opposed to and then funds will go towards public transport. That's how a democracy is supposed to work, right? And protests are certainly a part of democracy.

Originally Posted by shamanth

So at the end nothing changes, neither you get improvement in infra or in public transport.

Why are they 2 separate things? Again, isin't public transport also a form of infrastructure?

Originally Posted by pratyush6

If my car gets me from A to B in 45 mins and Public transit in more or less 69 to 90 minutes that too in smelly conditions, I doubt people will choose it.

True. But what happens when the car ride goes up to 100/120 mins and shows every sign of increasing each year? Not to mention the stress of other drivers on the road. Which is exactly what is happening in all our cities. But the public transport option, while crowded still remains at 90mins? Smelly conditions? Yes if you are talking about Mumbai locals or non-ac buses. Not really for the AC Volvos or Metros.

[PrideRed]

The bangalore traffic needs some simple solution which are really easy to implement ,problem is no one wants to do.
1. Remove stupid U turns and crossovers. Ex: Karthik nagar and Rainbow hospital U turns are absolutely stupid.
2. Repair roads are critical junctures.
3. Bus stops need to be placed thoughtfully. BMTC buses just pile up and occupy entire road.

I am pretty sure a common man who shall sit and watch each bottle neck for a week can come up with a simple solution. Just that Govt. needs to act or atleast pool in public!

[DRIVE_ADDICT]

Just improve public transport. Metro would do wonder and already we have Bounce like services for last mile connectivity. Ensure at least 80% of the city get Metro connectivity, that will make Bangalore or any city back to paradise.

Now there is no value for time. The amount of time we spend on roads is very huge. WFH is not a solution according to me, its not applicable for many stream of IT itself, leave about other industries and business.

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by binand

A fraction of that money can make projects like suburban rail network, increase in bus fleet and last-mile connectivity, improvements in enforcement etc. doable.

Suburban rail, metro benefit regular office commuters, those who do not carry luggage and those, within the radius of the metro station. For rest, like goods carriers, delivery vehicles, taxis, BMTC - all benefit from good road network.

While metro is a good option, the lines are already crowded and during peak hours it is a hassle to get & get out of the train. Suburban train service is a horrible experience. Trains are less and are at odd hours. Most of the times they start late and reach the destination almost 1 hour late. It is good on paper. Reality is a different experience.

Last mile connectivity: BMTC is a commercial enterprise and a monopoly for 80 years. Why they don't have last mile connectivity is best known to them.

Diverting fund allocated elevated flyover to BMTC doesn't empower them to provide last-mile connectivity.

Originally Posted by shamanth

Both can be developed parallel, lets drop the thinking that if we block infrastructure by protests govt will invest in public transport. Its been 2 years since govt was forced to shelve Hebbal project. Neither traffic bottle-neck was solved, neither public transport improved in Hebbal area.

Yes, we need roads & rails - both. Why the elevated corridor has to go over Cubbon park or Lalbagh? With a very minor change, the roads can go around these parks and save the trees.

[thirumalkumaran]

One of the major reasons, in my opinion is the "wonderful" flyover designs implemented here.
Starts in the middle of the road, making high speed lane users to move to middle of road and slow moving diverters to take the high speed lane and merge at the end of the flyover. It's always chaotic to enter and exit a flyover.
Not to mention it creates 2 more dividers in the middle of road causing accidents at night.

[wildsdi5530]

@dark.knight; @am1m; I think you misunderstand. What I mean is that the whole system is to blame. From the corrupt politicians who gave the permits, the organizations themselves, the drivers, public who use them. No sympathies whatsoever. I've had too many incidents with cabs to ever feel sorry for them.

Also I feel rather than cops not taking action on BMTC, police vehicles, taxis and autos, the fines should be higher for them. These drivers are highly experienced and have clocked many times the hours that a common man would ever do, so there is no excuse for them to disrespect things like double yellow lines, medians, stop signs and red lights. Unfortunately the increased fine will just be passed on back to us, the consumer.

Only a collective magical civic sense instillation will help. Even education will not because we learn from experience more than from books. When someone gets ahead by breaking rules with impunity and that action is endorsed by the authorities, everyone else will also follow.

[pratyush6]

Originally Posted by am1m

True. But what happens when the car ride goes up to 100/120 mins and shows every sign of increasing each year? Not to mention the stress of other drivers on the road. Which is exactly what is happening in all our cities. But the public transport option, while crowded still remains at 90mins? Smelly conditions? Yes if you are talking about Mumbai locals or non-ac buses. Not really for the AC Volvos or Metros.

I understand the stress with driving and completely agree with your point there. Those times are relative and on point, the ratio of time in a car vs a bus is about 1.75.
Smelly conditions - I have done the IRR Volvos going to Banashankari (back in 2010) and man they used to be full, stuck on lights and smelly. I've used the Metro and they are far better.
Oh I so wish the bigger cities in India just took the Subway/Metro route and only have feeder buses to the Metros.

[balenoed_]

Originally Posted by ankan.m.blr

What is happening in ORR? It's midnight and still dark red on ORR at Kadubisenahalli!

This must be tarring work underwent during mid night. Must be diversions made to the service road. I saw the newly laid road this morning. Mostly that.