[spyder_p8]

Originally Posted by gargashwin06

4 months back something similar happened with my polo tdi on the day back from goa. near nipani my car went over a very bad pothole which scraped the under body of the car pretty badly and we dint notice and continued on the journey and almost drove 40 kms when the car came down to a halt.

So in this case warning light didn't came up? If that lights up, its very difficult to miss since on POLO, its right there on the Speedometer. Also, it would be a major noise when the metal scarps the tarmac. Wasn't that felt?

[JohnyBoy]

Originally Posted by rki2007

Skoda as a brand is great in terms of quality. They make good cars which are better compared to the competitors today. It is only because of the dealers and their mischief, Skoda's fame is going for a toss in India. I really don't understand why the Company does not have any control over their dealers!!

The company needs to focus on the same at the earliest to retain itself in the Indian market.

Originally Posted by alpha1

In your entire post, I do have an objection to this statement.
In industrial practice we measure quality by occurrence of defects.
We all are aware the in terms of defects the VAG does indeed has issues with quality.

So how can you label them great in terms of quality??

Skoda indeed makes good cars of quality. As rki2007 said it is the attitude of the dealers (and Skoda themselves) which makes things bad.

alpha1, agreed no of defects is a measure of quality. I don't think Skoda cars have more defects than other cars. It appears so because
1. The ASS don't sympathise with the customers and make them feel like 'why did i buy skoda?". Other car service centres do the fix quickly and without troubling the customer. Few examples of Maruti practices were mentioned in earlier posts. So no of defects reported in the medium / forum as issues become less for Maruti and others.
2. Because of the above point and general trend of Skoda bashing, the issues get amplified and published in forums.

[i74js]

Originally Posted by JohnyBoy

Skoda indeed makes good cars of quality. As rki2007 said it is the attitude of the dealers (and Skoda themselves) which makes things bad.

2. Because of the above point and general trend of Skoda bashing, the issues get amplified and published in forums.

No one has the bandwidth to stand-up and start cursing a manufacturer. Even among the VAG group operations, people are against Skoda but not so much against VW; correct me if I am wrong.

More so, are they doing business with their eyes closed? Octavia when it was launched a decade ago, was one of the preferred cars in that price band and was quite a success for the company and gave them a foothold in the Indian market.

Now even after several launches and a long presence in Indian market, if they have not understood the correct way to do business and are not ready to bring their house in order, they have to be prepared for what is happening to their business.

VAG group may be the second largest group in the world with 10.14 million units sale and 4.2% of growth in the last year (second only to Toyota), their focus is elsewhere and practically since it is making business sense to them, they will continue to operate like this.

It if for the customer to decide if a product should be purchased only on the basis of "build quality and VFM at the time of purchase" or on the basis of "cost of ownership".

Skoda fails on later and "time and again"

I am also not sure if Dealers alone are responsible; ASS, part availability, costing and attitude of dealers are also managed by the manufacturer. If any of the BHP members is a dealer for Honda or Toyota, he can endorse me on this. The recent move by Nissan to remove the intermediary between them and dealers is a correction done by them and I except change in their market share. Skoda is responsible, reasons best known to the management of company.

I leave it at that !

[JohnyBoy]

Originally Posted by i74js

...

I am also not sure if Dealers alone are responsible; ASS, part availability, costing and attitude of dealers are also managed by the manufacturer. .... Skoda is responsible, reasons best known to the management of company.

I leave it at that !

Skoda (and other manufacturers) are responsible for the attitude and actions of their dealers.
The issues reported agaisnt Skoda cars are not primarily due to (bad) quality of their cars, it's because of the way they (and the dealers and ASSes) treat the customers.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by JohnyBoy

alpha1, agreed no of defects is a measure of quality. I don't think Skoda cars have more defects than other cars. It appears so because
1. The ASS don't sympathise with the customers and make them feel like 'why did i buy skoda?". Other car service centres do the fix quickly and without troubling the customer. Few examples of Maruti practices were mentioned in earlier posts. So no of defects reported in the medium / forum as issues become less for Maruti and others.
2. Because of the above point and general trend of Skoda bashing, the issues get amplified and published in forums.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...ngine-failures
Check the table about the failure rates (engine reliability).
The same data here also: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...ty-survey.html
(So this looks like well known and accepted fact in UK, somehow Indians just don't want to agree)

http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/dependability.htm
https://autos.yahoo.com/news/consume...164529371.html
http://consumerreports.org/cro/2012/...cars/index.htm (huge database, paid)

And well there are enlightened people in other parts of the world too: http://dougdemuro.kinja.com/german-r...mer-1572026115

No one is talking about ASS or SLA or anything of that sorts.
Poor quality = the car suffers frequent breakdowns of high severity. Whether the service was excellent with Rolls Royce loaner car, parts replaced for free, complete engine rebuild job completed in 4 hours is of secondary concern.

Anyway this case on this thread is of absolute gross negligence by the driver, and whether the VAG cars are poor quality or not is not of concern here.

[JohnyBoy]

Originally Posted by alpha1

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...ngine-failures
Check the table about the failure rates (engine reliability).
The same data here also: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...ty-survey.html
(So this looks like well known and accepted fact in UK, somehow Indians just don't want to agree)

From the telegraph article:

In total 1 in 13 of MG Rover motors failed in the past year, and problems presented themselves in 1 in every 27 Audi engines. Mini was the third least reliable with a failure rate of 1 in 40, while BMW finished seventh (1 in 45) and Volkswagen ninth (1 in 52).

This is hard to believe. German cars may not be as reliable as we think, but 1 in 27 Audi engine failure or 1 in 50 VW failure is difficult to digest. In India VW sells around 3000 cars a month rt? Going by the numbers, there should be 60 engine failures a month. We don't hear that many rt?
I am not disputing the finding of the study that German cars may be unreliable, but we should not blindly believe everything in such reports.

[Chetan_Rao]

Does the source of the report explicitly clarify what counts as 'engine failure'? Though it's not unbelievable that the depicted numbers may be for 'engine problems', every engine problem cannot (and should not) be classified 'engine failure'. Just because 1-in-X customers for a particular brand claimed insurance for engine-related issues doesn't mean the brand has a 1-in-X 'engine failure' rate.

More information needed before drawing any conclusions from such reports.

[spyder_p8]

Originally Posted by alpha1

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...ngine-failures
Check the table about the failure rates (engine reliability).
The same data here also: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...ty-survey.html
(So this looks like well known and accepted fact in UK, somehow Indians just don't want to agree)

http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/dependability.htm
https://autos.yahoo.com/news/consume...164529371.html
http://consumerreports.org/cro/2012/...cars/index.htm (huge database, paid)

And well there are enlightened people in other parts of the world too: http://dougdemuro.kinja.com/german-r...mer-1572026115

No one is talking about ASS or SLA or anything of that sorts.
Poor quality = the car suffers frequent breakdowns of high severity. Whether the service was excellent with Rolls Royce loaner car, parts replaced for free, complete engine rebuild job completed in 4 hours is of secondary concern.

Anyway this case on this thread is of absolute gross negligence by the driver, and whether the VAG cars are poor quality or not is not of concern here.

Well, i would have agreed with you. But then reasoning kicked in. I thought the british where the most to adapt to german cars and the primary reason was reliability. Also what explains those Passats which are in endless taxi service in UK. Why the Germans are most selling in the african and middle east second hand market. Why would the Indian Prime minister ride a unreliable car. They can ask TOYOTA to offer the same luxury. And if TOYOTA/HONDA are the most reliable and nothing goes wrong ever, then what is this $1.2 BILLION fine for.

http://www.voanews.com/content/toyot...s/1874623.html

Why Honda has to pay record fine. This one is from Bloomberg.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-0...ry-claims.html

What iam trying to say is, the cars are so modern today that reliability between one to other varies only by a negligible percentage. Things that matter is build, aging , VFM and cost of ownership. Also generic statements like based on geographies are not worth any more. Audi is one of the fastest growing brand in the world. Hard to believe its not reliable. Why is CHINA buying VWs?

Also note - This one is obviously biased and countering the one that claims Mercedes is reliable. So which one we should believe.
http://dougdemuro.kinja.com/german-r...mer-1572026115

Needless to say that we should not deviate from this topic. The car in question here has been hit and hit very hard. Another gentleman here has driven his polo 40kms after a hit. It is obvious that the ASS will always quote more than local garage. That is also true for Maruti.

[fighterace]

Originally Posted by gargashwin06

...he did a super job of engine rebuilt and the final bill was 1.2 lakhs. used the car for 5000 kms after that and sold it for 3.3 lakhs.

May I ask why you sold the car, if the repair was done properly?

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by spyder_p8

Why the Germans are most selling in the african and middle east second hand market.

The only German car that is popular in the used car market in either of these two markets is Mercedes-Benz, and with good reason. The others fall apart fast, especially BMW.

The japs rule in these markets as a breakdown in the bush or in fiery summer is not something people look forward to.

[spyder_p8]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

The only German car that is popular in the used car market in either of these two markets is Mercedes-Benz, and with good reason. The others fall apart fast, especially BMW.

The japs rule in these markets as a breakdown in the bush or in fiery summer is not something people look forward to.

I would have preferred an answer in totality. Please do not mind, but this is knit picking. There is no basis of saying Germans breakdown more and japs less. We can always argue what happens after a breakdown and who was offered a better service. But as i said, the cars have become very modern and reliability varies very little.

[jkdas]

Originally Posted by fighterace

May I ask why you sold the car, if the repair was done properly?

Originally Posted by gargashwin06

4 months back something similar happened with my polo tdi on the day back from goa. near nipani my car went over a very bad pothole which scraped the under body of the car pretty badly and we dint notice and continued on the journey and almost drove 40 kms when the car came down to a halt. we thought its because of over heating and thought of waiting down for sometime and called a local mechanic. its then that i found out that oil stump has a crack and engine is dead. Called up volkswagen kolhapur and explained him the situation they asked us to get the car to the showroom which was almost 2 hours away, somehow we arranged for a tow truck and reached the showroom around 2 at night. next day went to the showroom early morning and to my horror they claimed a bill of around 4.5 lakhs for a engine rebuilt, called up a few friends back in pune and towed my car to pune to a local mechanic near KEM hospital called akbar. he did a super job of engine rebuilt and the final bill was 1.2 lakhs. used the car for 5000 kms after that and sold it for 3.3 lakhs.

My neighbor did the same..almost. Only difference was that he bought another Polo ( the top end this time) of the same color. I found that he had changed car coz of the number.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by spyder_p8

I would have preferred an answer in totality.

I can only speak for the markets I know well enough.

Originally Posted by spyder_p8

Please do not mind, but this is knit picking

Its NIT-picking, by the way. Knitting is what one does with yarn, but perhaps that is what you meant anyway.

Why would I mind, in either case? Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Originally Posted by spyder_p8

There is no basis of saying Germans breakdown more and japs less.

A few years of ownership experience with different vehicles tends to give one some perspective. However, you also have the option of learning the hard way.

Nobody is saying that German cars are bad. However, if my life depended on the car I drive I would pick up a Jap or a Merc - the difference may be minute but it may also be critical. I certainly value my life more than an online debate.

[gargashwin06]

Originally Posted by fighterace

May I ask why you sold the car, if the repair was done properly?

Just at the back of my mind i use to be constantly worried that something might go wrong . so to have some peace of mind sold it off !

[rajeev k]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

The only German car that is popular in the used car market in either of these two markets is Mercedes-Benz, and with good reason. The others fall apart fast, especially BMW.
The japs rule in these markets as a breakdown in the bush or in fiery summer is not something people look forward to.

Originally Posted by spyder_p8

I would have preferred an answer in totality. Please do not mind, but this is knit picking. There is no basis of saying Germans breakdown more and japs less.

Originally Posted by Steeroid

I can only speak for the markets I know well enough. Why would I mind, in either case? Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Nobody is saying that German cars are bad.

The following thread provides clear answer to the above conversation.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...rman-cars.html