[padmrajravi]

It looks like we have two sets of issues and we are confusing between each other.

ABS-equipped Xcent, GrandI10 etc always had the issue of non-proportional brake bite. When I say non-proportional, I mean brake bite is not always the same for the same degree of pedal pressure. At times, with smaller brake pressure, you get enough bite, other times, you have to press more and even then with ABS kicking in the pedal feedback gets very confusing. This mostly happens in loose gravel and rumble strips etc. I am also a victim of this. Most ownership reviews of Xcent and Grandi10 in team-bhp also mentions this. Almost all Xcents and Grandi10s will also have their ABS sensors replaced multiple times.

The subject of this thread is very different from the above issue. Naveen faced complete loss of brakes, as in there was no brake bite at all. Only other people who faced the same issue are fellow Creta owners. From the feedback in this thread, none of the Grandi10, Xcent owners faced the issue Naveen faced. This is limited to only Creta owners. I think it is best to focus this thread on Creta brake issue and not to confuse with the non-proportional brake bite that the i10 twins have.

The difference that I see between the two issues is that earlier generation i10 twins did not come with EBD. They started having EBD only from 2018. So we are not comparing the same systems when we bring i10 twins into the discussion.

See the below thread.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ent-specs.html (Hyundai finally lists 'EBD' on i10, i20 & Xcent specs)

[Lightning2]

HI Padmaraj
Problem faced by Naveen raju is most likely, an extension of the inherent ABS/EBD issue in Hyundai cars.

There is no point in giving leverage to Hyundai here. within short span of time, multiple owners have reported Brake Erratic and non Predictable behavior, in just this one Blog and one Portal. Imagine how many owners are simply ignoring these anomalies per day around the country, but just living with this !!

Software of ABS/EBD need expensive calibration depending on weight, wheel sizes, disc and shoe diameters etc. In all likeliness EBD is incorrectly calculating the Hydraulic force that should be directed to 4 wheels.
In Naveen raju's case, the condition so happened that EBD closed the Hydraulic valve Actuators for All the wheels. This bug can not be reproduced readily does not mean that we should write off the issue !! Similar Partial Loss of braking power reported by other Model Owners !

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

ABS-equipped Xcent, GrandI10 etc always had the issue of non-proportional brake bite. When I say non-proportional, I mean brake bite is not always the same for the same degree of pedal pressure. At times, with smaller brake pressure, you get enough bite, other times, you have to press more and even then with ABS kicking in the pedal feedback gets very confusing. This mostly happens in loose gravel and rumble strips etc. I am also a victim of this. Most ownership reviews of Xcent and Grandi10 in team-bhp also mentions this. Almost all Xcents and Grandi10s will also have their ABS sensors replaced multiple times.

Originally Posted by Lightning2

Hi BHPians


1. gtonsing, Nonstop-driver, N4Nikunj and groom have already validated that serious loss of Braking power is indeed present not only in Creta, but also Hyundai other models Gi10 and new Santro, as they stated

[d3mon]

Originally Posted by greatgyan

Like I see a speed breaker and press the brakes to reduce my speed, the initial deceleration is as expected, but just before the wheels go over the speed breaker, the brakes make a jarring noise and I feel quite heavy vibrations on the brake pedal, this is accompanied with flashing of the traction control light.

There's no car which indicates a traction control light on activation of ABS, unless ESP gets involved as well (which is usually at much higher speeds). If you see any flashing light while braking at low speeds, there is something definitely wrong with the braking system.

[BeingHuman]

Originally Posted by greatgyan

Like I see a speed breaker and press the brakes to reduce my speed, the initial deceleration is as expected, but just before the wheels go over the speed breaker, the brakes make a jarring noise and I feel quite heavy vibrations on the brake pedal, this is accompanied with flashing of the traction control light. I also feel that momentarily the car has stopped braking and is not slowing down anymore.

My 2009 Verna CRDI AT with all disc brakes does the same thing at speed breaker with little bit of sand. So I guess the ABS is sensitive, but otherwise the braking efficiency is very good compared to the current Verna and Creta.
I find the Seltos,Tucson all wheel disc brakes to be pretty good too.
So the ABS/EBD calibration issue could be with vehicles with rear drum brakes only.

[Hemicuda]

Originally Posted by naveen.raju

*Potential Warning to other Creta Owners*



I had actually discussed this few guys and once who drive some high end German cars. The reason for this - Have seen many German cars driving effortlessly without any issues with the christmas lights lit on the instrument cluster. Our Jetta had the ABS sensor light on and we were able to drive the car with no issues. Same case with my uncle's other German cars.

I have a Vento Highline. Same problem popped up for me.Once the ABS light came up i noticed the Brake pedal behaved crazy a couple of times. Pumping or getting abs in action when not required. And as you said at times behaving like something was under the pedal and locking. The ASC took in the car kept it for a few days, they said they cleaned the sensor. ABS light was now gone and gave me back the car, they put in good amount of labour charge also saying that they had to do trails for each of the sensor. I take back the car happily and next day light appears again. Same problem. Took it to service centre again. This time they changed one of the sensors and problem was solved.So yes my point was even the German cars can have this issue, only thing is that my car is in its 9th year.
But Yes I will agree it is very scary to drive in that scenario even in slow traffic because the brake behaves so abruptly.

[BeingHuman]

You can try installing Brembo "Red" metallic pads on front rotors to help you with panic braking situations, I am not sure if they are available as drum version for rears.
In my verna most of the braking is done by front rotors(70Front/30Rear split), I can tell that based on the wear of the pads.

I have used both Red and Black version on my Verna and my perception is the red pads are 30-35% better than stock Mando pads whereas the Black version could be 20-25% better than stock.

[pradeepmr]

Naveen, good to hear that it was a minor incident. I had 2015 Creta and i sold this year because braking was one of the major reasons. I never got confidence that i had in my old swift or recent GT TSI. Somehow Hyundai was never convinced that there is some issue during each of my complaints.

[Chhanda Das]

Sad to hear this. Touchwood, I never faced any braking issue in my 2017 Creta Petrol AT.

[sid_hilldriver]

IMHO it's an issue with majority of power brake petrol cars. Even I have suffered with this issue in my Swift Dzire Vxi.

In bumper to bumper traffic we generally use only the clutch to creep forward and use braking relatively more than acceleration. Hence, after repetitive braking (pressing pedal 10-12 times) at low engine RPMs, the power brakes don't seem to have any source of power for operation. But they come back to normalcy if you press the accelerator once.

You can try this in your parking lot. Try using the brake multiple time at slow speeds and low rpms. The brake will turn hard for few seconds.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Nothing like that ever happened to me in bumper to bumper, tedious-slow, London commuter traffic in either manual or automatic cars.

Powerless brake can be simulated very easily on a slope. Don't forget to unlock the steering! But don't turn the engine on. It will take full leg strength to get any braking, but the brake will work, and this is the failsafe situation that should be the bottom line of our power-assisted, abbreviation-complex, brake systems. How is it possible that that can be locked out? But it seems to have been in the events described here.

[csateesh]

Originally Posted by naveen.raju

Days went by without any issues. Then the inevitable happened.
...
So at present, what I can say is ABS Sensor Light = No brakes or brake failure. DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR.

@Naveen.Raju - The issue reported is too serious to be ignored. Hence it is important that we narrow it down only to the failure of the sensors and nothing else.

Thanks for sharing your scary experience with the community.

Was it possible to reproduce the issue with the defective ABS Sensors again ?

Ability to reproduce the problem in a consistent manner is an absolute must to be 100% sure that it was indeed the ABS Sensor and nothing else in your brake circuit.

My recommendation and request to you

Pls. take your steed back to the service centre and see if the issue can be reproduced with the defective ABS Sensors. If we can reproduce it then we are on the right track

If it can't be then this needs to be highlighted as it is possible that the diagnosis wasn't right. Simply means we are on the right track but on the wrong train.

So pls take sometime to confirm the above as this will put serious doubts in your mind when we hit the ground running

Thanks once again

[naveen.raju]

Originally Posted by csateesh

@Naveen.Raju - The issue reported is too serious to be ignored. Hence it is important that we narrow it down only to the failure of the sensors and nothing else.

Thanks for sharing your scary experience with the community.

Was it possible to reproduce the issue with the defective ABS Sensors again ?

Yes, they were able to reproduce the issue with the defective ABS sensors. They did drive the car in their service center and recreate the same scenario. I had left the car there for few days so that they can fully diagnose the car for any other faults.

My issue was definitely the faulty ABS sensor and hope Hyundai can find some fail-safe backup remedy when this problem occurs.

[Mohan Mathew A]

Originally Posted by Sankar

In a Vento which I owned I experienced loss of normal braking power when the ABS light lit up. The pedal required more force for the same expected retardation compared to when the ABS light was not lit.

My experience on the Vento has been the exact opposite. My rear right wheel speed sensor failed around 2 months back and it took me around 1 month to replace it. In the meanwhile i was driving the car like normal even in highway speeds and there was absolutely no negative impact on normal braking. Braking distance, pedal feel, force required were all normal and i had no issues. Within a week of replacing the rear right, the front right wheel speed sensor too failed. Again it took me around 10 days to replace it during which i drove normally without having any detrimental effect to normal braking.

[venkyhere]

Originally Posted by naveen.raju

Yes, they were able to reproduce the issue with the defective ABS sensors. They did drive the car in their service center and recreate the same scenario. I had left the car there for few days so that they can fully diagnose the car for any other faults.

My issue was definitely the faulty ABS sensor and hope Hyundai can find some fail-safe backup remedy when this problem occurs.

Its a major, major flaw. When ABS sensor fails, the system should abandon the firmware control and allow the raw physical brake circuit to work as normal. It should not disable brakes like it happened here. I am still not able to get my head around the fact that such basic scenario was not tested. This, looks like a control system (firmware) bug - there is nothing wrong with the braking circuit at all ; the supervisor system is not relinquishing control back

[navy68]

Originally Posted by naveen.raju

Thank you all for your concern and replies here. Too many messages, so not quoting everyone.

What exactly happened (since many pointed out many interpretations)
Since this issue repeated after the accident, I noticed that during the initial application the brake pedal didn't budge at all. When I re-applied, there was this loud grinding noise (a lot louder than normal instances when the ABS kicks in) and the braking performance was seriously compromised. Sometimes, it comes to a sudden halt or else absolutely no brakes at all. And the amount of pressure needed to apply was also really high.

Hey Naveen. That's as blunt as you can present it and is a replica of what happened to my Creta I faced a similar situation last year and still awaiting a courtesy call from Hyundai to atleast tell me what the hell was the problem. Such a beautiful car and sadly has a safety issue which Hyundai seemingly has hidden from the consumer. Wonder if this would be the scenario if such an incident occured in the USA ? There would be a recall I guess.

Anyways, stopped trusting this car now. And I drive with my hands on the hand brake these days especially in b2b traffic, because the incident happened in b2b traffic, not that I trust it wouldn't happen on highways.