Under-revving on my Baleno

kaushik_s · 24th May 2008, 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuvc

@Kaushik, now that you say it, I think I've also felt a similar temperamental behaviour of my car. Is the O2 sensor accessible? Where is it located? Can we clean it ourselves?

Hi Shuvc,
Check the "tune Up" section in the following link. This guy has explained it quite well how to replace it. I don't think it can be cleaned by us and I've seen few of the service engineers are not even aware of it(or probably they know it with a different name). BTW, it seems it costs around 2-3k to change the Oxygen Sensor.
http://home.comcast.net/~lj_robins/99suzuki/
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Kaushik

aaggoswami · 24th May 2008, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpzen

BIL- Brother in Law
FIL- Father in law

Thanks.
For the whole reading, I thought that how can XXLimited (BIL, wondering till 3am how can somethink limited can go for wedding ) can go for wedding. How can Ford India limiteds product earn honour in someone's wedding.

Now I know.
Thanks.

So Because Baleno was not avaliable, Father In Laws's Fiesta was used as primary vehicle. And Baleno came just after the last ceremony was over.
some bad luck here. baleno would have been great choice for this purpose. Our Baleno was used as primary vehicle once for wedding purpose ( my cousin ) and we were travelling in non AC 800!

gigy · 24th May 2008, 19:25

hi checked the fault code today. engine control light flashes for 4 time and after a short gap flashes for 7 times.this keeps repeating. so looks like CMP sensor, can i DIY replace it and see? this is a cam shaft problem but is it a faulty crank shaft causing this or timing belt wear due to which the cam sensor is getting a wrong input? price as viper seems too high to buy it off and see for myself.got appointment for tuesday at service center. looks like its going to be long wait.

gigy · 24th May 2008, 23:32

followed the troubleshooting procedure,
cmp sensor was installed and connected properly.
Checked and found voltage at terminal B+=12.6; vout=5.6; and ground=0.
removed sensor from case and condition satisfactory, no metal particles found but there was a layer of semi hard dust on it which i cleaned up.connected it back to ECM and with ignition on checked with a magnet and voltage found varying from 5.6 to 0vmade a small opening on the sensor wiring itself rather than at the ECM as i was alone for the job.
could not find foreign material or damage inside casing.
ECM reset by disconnecting battery for half hour.

On reconnection i am getting code 12. now whats this? there is oil leak around the head gasket and can shaft mounting. could this have lead to cam sensor error? or is the crank shaft to cam shaft going out and ECM is taking this as cam sensor error? viper was kind enough to offered to replace the sensor in a hours time but looks like the major issue now

kaushik_s · 25th May 2008, 01:35

Hey gigy,
How did you checked the trouble code i.e. 47 in your case? Can you please explain how it is done.
And it's such a strange happening, I'm starting to have to the same issue from today onwards. The car was running fine till I gave the car for wash today. After that also it was running fine for sometime. But now the problem is looking severe, once i try to build up the acceleration after shifting gear the car is spluttering and feels like as if engine is going to shut-off. It is like the engine is getting deprived of fuel for a second or so. Once i build up the rev the problem goes.
Also noticed that this doesn't happen when in neutral and the engine is revving merrily upto 5500 rpm on neutral.
Checked the Air-filter,although the filter is dirty it doesn't seem to be problem as the jerking is still the same even if I remove the filter altogether,
The problem is happening at low rev region only. At high rev there was no issue as such.
Another thing, I'venot noticed if the check engine light was flashing, as far as I can remember or checked, it was not.
I'm very much upset as just two days back car was slightly damaged(broken left ORVM and small dent on the passenger side door) due to the falling coconut leaf during rain and now this is happening. I'm really having nightmarish days.
Regards,
Kaushik

gigy · 25th May 2008, 01:50

will post the picture of place where you have to insert a wire to short it to read flash code. after that turn on the ignition and read the check engine light. it will flash in repeat sequence.if more than one code exist, each will flash for three times.
additionally,did you dry up the ignition wiring connections? remove the ignition cables from both end and ask the service guy to blow dry the area. if possible try replacing the spark plugs.

kaushik_s · 25th May 2008, 01:59

Thanks Gigy, will be waiting for the procedure.
Yeah, will get the whole wiring dried tomorrow. Or probably it'll be dried by morning. Will get the plugs also checked anyway.

May be OT : Another problem I've noticed after the water wash is that there was a strange sound from the suspension/brakes when I hit the brake at low speed. Exact scenario is, if I hit the brake and the car comes to an halt at low speed some short of noise is coming as soon as the car stops. Kind of heavy metal grinding noise. But I felt it got reduced as of now (or may be I was concentrating more on this engine problem).

gigy · 25th May 2008, 09:33

found out code 12 means all normal. what a relief. will drive around and see if i can get the symptoms again.i had left the battery disconnected for the night and morning after reconnection no fault codes. engine idling is ok. when AC is put on rpm falls rather than increasing. looks like AC amplifier or electrical load signal to ECM is not there. i think the more i keep looking the longer will be the list of problems i will have to tell the service center guy. she has to be taken anyways for corrosion, ac service, under body coating,timing belt and generator bearing change.

gigy · 25th May 2008, 13:39

Think i figured out part of the mystery, as per the service manual if there is a start fault then error 42 which is CMP sensor will be logged in ECM. i had twice stalling of car at signals in past one week and it took bit of cranking to restart it as fuel lines were empty due it was running on lpg. this could have very well got logged. so the problem of low rpm is something else. things are getting scary now. will drive around for two days and get prepared mentally to open up the engine. wonder why 47 is also CMP fault!

kaushik_s · 25th May 2008, 13:42

hi Gigy n All,
Got the car checked at the service station today. The problem was with the spark plugs it seems, during washing some water gone inside it seems. First they've cleaned the spark plugs and the connectors. But the problem was still there. Then the service engineer asked the guy whether he has cleaned the springs(inside the connector) or not. Now they cleaned the springs using emery paper which are inside the connectors and voila, the problem is gone. They've told me to drive the car for today and see. According to them that was the only problem as probably some of the plugs were not firing properly at low rev.
Also checked the error code and it was showing 12, so there was no other issues I think. Thanks Gigy for posting the photograph.
Regards,
Kaushik

gigy · 14th June 2008, 22:48

Got my car back yesterday and poorer by 19k. but the problems just remain. i am fed up of these authorized service centers. sai service, powai autoworks, and spectra motors, which is latest.
they never understood the problem of under revving and faint noise when accelerated. these service centers can only do replacement of parts, and unnecessary parts change.got new wiper motor, timing belt, its tensioner and aircon serviced as per my demand.fuel filter and wiper blades were changed without informing me. spark plugs were not opened to check the problem. today i opened the plugs and found one of them to have much higher carbon deposit than the rest.Additionally had asked them to remove all corrosion in the boot and outside boot area, they just painted outside and gave it. when asked , this much only can be done is the reply. i have seen many car being repaired in the roadside garage near my place and they do much better job. the only problem there i noticed was the paint finish.
Now i have new noise coming from the cat converter. lot of white powder in all places, and lpg occasionally backfires when slowing down. after more than 20 days in authorised service center its more problem than before.
will get back to the road side unauthorized garage and ask him to open up things and will have a look myself. will try replacing both ignition coils along with new plugs first.

ECM · 14th June 2008, 23:07

This thread may help you to solve your problem,when I joined this forum I had similar problem and one member(who is a genius) rdkarthik found a solution ahead of MUL's engineer detected it.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...s-daytime.html

humyum · 14th June 2008, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by gigy

Got my car back yesterday and poorer by 19k. but the problems just remain. i am fed up of these authorized service centers. sai service, powai autoworks, and spectra motors, which is latest.
they never understood the problem of under revving and faint noise when accelerated. these service centers can only do replacement of parts, and unnecessary parts change.got new wiper motor, timing belt, its tensioner and aircon serviced as per my demand.fuel filter and wiper blades were changed without informing me. spark plugs were not opened to check the problem. today i opened the plugs and found one of them to have much higher carbon deposit than the rest.Additionally had asked them to remove all corrosion in the boot and outside boot area, they just painted outside and gave it. when asked , this much only can be done is the reply. i have seen many car being repaired in the roadside garage near my place and they do much better job. the only problem there i noticed was the paint finish.
Now i have new noise coming from the cat converter. lot of white powder in all places, and lpg occasionally backfires when slowing down. after more than 20 days in authorised service center its more problem than before.
will get back to the road side unauthorized garage and ask him to open up things and will have a look myself. will try replacing both ignition coils along with new plugs first.

Gigy,try ravi automobiles which is an authorised service station at ghatkopar.Really Technically sound people,wont do something on your car unless they find the root cause of the problem.
There is a mr shashank and Mr samir there.Amazingly amazing technical knowledge.

gigy · 15th June 2008, 00:19

ECM,
thanks for the link. went through it fully.
Will just change the camshaft position sensor tomorrow and leave it till the problem reappears. had enough of under revving and backfires.
i did check it as per the service manual and there was voltage variation as per the service book, may be its the temperature in the engine bay....
humyum, else next trip will be to ravi automobiles.

ECM · 15th June 2008, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by gigy

ECM,
thanks for the link. went through it fully.
Will just change the camshaft position sensor tomorrow and leave it till the problem reappears. had enough of under revving and backfires.
i did check it as per the service manual and there was voltage variation as per the service book, may be its the temperature in the engine bay....
humyum, else next trip will be to ravi automobiles.

gigy
It looks you run your Baleno on lpg,does this problem occur when you run it on petrol?If not than the prob can easily be solved by adjusting air n gas settings in your car.
I never used lpg till this date and shall never use it for safety purpose.

24th May 2008, 19:25	#153
gigy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 1,321 Thanked: 47 Times	hi checked the fault code today. engine control light flashes for 4 time and after a short gap flashes for 7 times.this keeps repeating. so looks like CMP sensor, can i DIY replace it and see? this is a cam shaft problem but is it a faulty crank shaft causing this or timing belt wear due to which the cam sensor is getting a wrong input? price as viper seems too high to buy it off and see for myself.got appointment for tuesday at service center. looks like its going to be long wait. Last edited by gigy : 24th May 2008 at 19:31.
	() Thanks

24th May 2008, 23:32	#154
gigy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 1,321 Thanked: 47 Times	followed the troubleshooting procedure, cmp sensor was installed and connected properly. Checked and found voltage at terminal B+=12.6; vout=5.6; and ground=0. removed sensor from case and condition satisfactory, no metal particles found but there was a layer of semi hard dust on it which i cleaned up.connected it back to ECM and with ignition on checked with a magnet and voltage found varying from 5.6 to 0vmade a small opening on the sensor wiring itself rather than at the ECM as i was alone for the job. could not find foreign material or damage inside casing. ECM reset by disconnecting battery for half hour. On reconnection i am getting code 12. now whats this? there is oil leak around the head gasket and can shaft mounting. could this have lead to cam sensor error? or is the crank shaft to cam shaft going out and ECM is taking this as cam sensor error? viper was kind enough to offered to replace the sensor in a hours time but looks like the major issue now Attached Thumbnails
	() Thanks

25th May 2008, 01:35	#155
kaushik_s Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,088 Thanked: 164 Times View My Garage	Hey gigy, How did you checked the trouble code i.e. 47 in your case? Can you please explain how it is done. And it's such a strange happening, I'm starting to have to the same issue from today onwards. The car was running fine till I gave the car for wash today. After that also it was running fine for sometime. But now the problem is looking severe, once i try to build up the acceleration after shifting gear the car is spluttering and feels like as if engine is going to shut-off. It is like the engine is getting deprived of fuel for a second or so. Once i build up the rev the problem goes. Also noticed that this doesn't happen when in neutral and the engine is revving merrily upto 5500 rpm on neutral. Checked the Air-filter,although the filter is dirty it doesn't seem to be problem as the jerking is still the same even if I remove the filter altogether, The problem is happening at low rev region only. At high rev there was no issue as such. Another thing, I'venot noticed if the check engine light was flashing, as far as I can remember or checked, it was not. I'm very much upset as just two days back car was slightly damaged(broken left ORVM and small dent on the passenger side door) due to the falling coconut leaf during rain and now this is happening. I'm really having nightmarish days. Regards, Kaushik Last edited by kaushik_s : 25th May 2008 at 01:37.
	() Thanks

25th May 2008, 01:50	#156
gigy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 1,321 Thanked: 47 Times	will post the picture of place where you have to insert a wire to short it to read flash code. after that turn on the ignition and read the check engine light. it will flash in repeat sequence.if more than one code exist, each will flash for three times. additionally,did you dry up the ignition wiring connections? remove the ignition cables from both end and ask the service guy to blow dry the area. if possible try replacing the spark plugs.
	(1) Thanks

25th May 2008, 01:59	#157
kaushik_s Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,088 Thanked: 164 Times View My Garage	Thanks Gigy, will be waiting for the procedure. Yeah, will get the whole wiring dried tomorrow. Or probably it'll be dried by morning. Will get the plugs also checked anyway. May be OT : Another problem I've noticed after the water wash is that there was a strange sound from the suspension/brakes when I hit the brake at low speed. Exact scenario is, if I hit the brake and the car comes to an halt at low speed some short of noise is coming as soon as the car stops. Kind of heavy metal grinding noise. But I felt it got reduced as of now (or may be I was concentrating more on this engine problem).
	() Thanks

25th May 2008, 13:42	#160
kaushik_s Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,088 Thanked: 164 Times View My Garage	hi Gigy n All, Got the car checked at the service station today. The problem was with the spark plugs it seems, during washing some water gone inside it seems. First they've cleaned the spark plugs and the connectors. But the problem was still there. Then the service engineer asked the guy whether he has cleaned the springs(inside the connector) or not. Now they cleaned the springs using emery paper which are inside the connectors and voila, the problem is gone. They've told me to drive the car for today and see. According to them that was the only problem as probably some of the plugs were not firing properly at low rev. Also checked the error code and it was showing 12, so there was no other issues I think. Thanks Gigy for posting the photograph. Regards, Kaushik Last edited by kaushik_s : 25th May 2008 at 13:50.
	() Thanks

14th June 2008, 22:48	#161
gigy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 1,321 Thanked: 47 Times	Got my car back yesterday and poorer by 19k. but the problems just remain. i am fed up of these authorized service centers. sai service, powai autoworks, and spectra motors, which is latest. they never understood the problem of under revving and faint noise when accelerated. these service centers can only do replacement of parts, and unnecessary parts change.got new wiper motor, timing belt, its tensioner and aircon serviced as per my demand.fuel filter and wiper blades were changed without informing me. spark plugs were not opened to check the problem. today i opened the plugs and found one of them to have much higher carbon deposit than the rest.Additionally had asked them to remove all corrosion in the boot and outside boot area, they just painted outside and gave it. when asked , this much only can be done is the reply. i have seen many car being repaired in the roadside garage near my place and they do much better job. the only problem there i noticed was the paint finish. Now i have new noise coming from the cat converter. lot of white powder in all places, and lpg occasionally backfires when slowing down. after more than 20 days in authorised service center its more problem than before. will get back to the road side unauthorized garage and ask him to open up things and will have a look myself. will try replacing both ignition coils along with new plugs first.
	() Thanks

14th June 2008, 23:07	#162
ECM BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Somewhere Posts: 226 Thanked: 15 Times	This thread may help you to solve your problem,when I joined this forum I had similar problem and one member(who is a genius) *rdkarthik found a solution ahead of MUL's engineer detected it.* http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...s-daytime.html
	() Thanks

15th June 2008, 00:19	#164
gigy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 1,321 Thanked: 47 Times	ECM, thanks for the link. went through it fully. Will just change the camshaft position sensor tomorrow and leave it till the problem reappears. had enough of under revving and backfires. i did check it as per the service manual and there was voltage variation as per the service book, may be its the temperature in the engine bay.... humyum, else next trip will be to ravi automobiles.
	() Thanks