[swiftnfurious]

Guys, facing a strange problem in my GTX. The car, at times refuses to start after lidling for long. This is especially true in the mornings. If it doesn't start at the first ignition, it wouldn't start till we give a bit of accelerator input. But once the car is warm, then there are no issues, car starts in the first crank.

Also, if it doesn't start the check light comes on for 3-4 seconds and then goes off. If we try to ignite again (after doing a full lock and back), the light doesn't come in the first stage, but starts lighting up after we crank (and goes off after 3-4 seconds).

Had taken the car to RS Motors, Kandivali and they had connected the eXamnier, it didn't throw any errors. The car is parked in a covered basement, away from natural elements and rodents. The car has done around 39,000 kms and was restored mostly, 2 years back. I don't have any problems with pick up, A/C or heating - all are as good as it should be. The idle rpm also is constant with zero fluctuation.

[SunnyBoi]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Guys, facing a strange problem in my GTX. The car, at times refuses to start after lidling for long. This is especially true in the mornings. If it doesn't start at the first ignition, it wouldn't start till we give a bit of accelerator input. But once the car is warm, then there are no issues, car starts in the first crank.

Also, if it doesn't start the check light comes on for 3-4 seconds and then goes off. If we try to ignite again (after doing a full lock and back), the light doesn't come in the first stage, but starts lighting up after we crank (and goes off after 3-4 seconds).

Had taken the car to RS Motors, Kandivali and they had connected the eXamnier, it didn't throw any errors. The car is parked in a covered basement, away from natural elements and rodents. The car has done around 39,000 kms and was restored mostly, 2 years back. I don't have any problems with pick up, A/C or heating - all are as good as it should be. The idle rpm also is constant with zero fluctuation.

It's mostly the Crank sensor that's going bad. How old is the battery and condition?

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Guys, facing a strange problem in my GTX. The car, at times refuses to start after lidling for long. This is especially true in the mornings. If it doesn't start at the first ignition, it wouldn't start till we give a bit of accelerator input. But once the car is warm, then there are no issues, car starts in the first crank.

You can check the idle air control valve. If this valve gets partially stuck in the beginning (before warming up), you can notice this symptom. This can happen due to ingress of dust, dirt or even oil in the valve actuator. If the actuator can be cleaned, jamming can be prevented. If the actuator design does not permit cleaning, you may need to put a new one.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by SunnyBoi

It's mostly the Crank sensor that's going bad. How old is the battery and condition?

A new battery was installed almost 2 years back. The car did just around 6-7K kms after that. If it's the sensor, should it nor behave the same way always? I have the problem only with the first ignition in the day.

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

You can check the idle air control valve. If this valve gets partially stuck in the beginning (before warming up), you can notice this symptom. This can happen due to ingress of dust, dirt or even oil in the valve actuator. If the actuator can be cleaned, jamming can be prevented. If the actuator design does not permit cleaning, you may need to put a new one.

Guess this is worth exploring. Any idea how much this would cost if I have to replace?

[SunnyBoi]

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

You can check the idle air control valve. If this valve gets partially stuck in the beginning (before warming up), you can notice this symptom. This can happen due to ingress of dust, dirt or even oil in the valve actuator. If the actuator can be cleaned, jamming can be prevented. If the actuator design does not permit cleaning, you may need to put a new one.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Guess this is worth exploring. Any idea how much this would cost if I have to replace?

There is a diagnostic test for the idle stepper motor when connected to the scanner. It has to be started when the engine is on and it will cycle through different steps of the IAC Valve and see if the revs are stable at every stage. You can try that next time your car is scanned.

The valve alone cannot be changed, the whole throttle body has to be replaced and it will cost you 16K.

[chandrda]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Guys, facing a strange problem in my GTX. The car, at times refuses to start after lidling for long. This is especially true in the mornings. If it doesn't start at the first ignition, it wouldn't start till we give a bit of accelerator input. But once the car is warm, then there are no issues, car starts in the first crank.

Also, if it doesn't start the check light comes on for 3-4 seconds and then goes off. If we try to ignite again (after doing a full lock and back), the light doesn't come in the first stage, but starts lighting up after we crank (and goes off after 3-4 seconds).

Had taken the car to RS Motors, Kandivali and they had connected the eXamnier, it didn't throw any errors. The car is parked in a covered basement, away from natural elements and rodents. The car has done around 39,000 kms and was restored mostly, 2 years back. I don't have any problems with pick up, A/C or heating - all are as good as it should be. The idle rpm also is constant with zero fluctuation.

Faced exactly the same problem few months ago on my GTX. The car wouldn't start in the morning or after a gap of 5-6 hours. I had to press the accelerator to start the car. Once the Car started, check injector warning light would switch off after 5 seconds. Once the car ran for 8-10 KMS, then there was no issue in starting the car again.

I went through a lot of pain to rectify this issue and proved a bit costly as well. I changed the starter motor, RPM/Crank Sensor, borrowed the throttle body, MAF from another Palio 1.6 but nothing worked. I almost cleaned all the sensor and checked almost everything. Even the 3 year old battery was good and reading was good.

Finally an auto electrician in a battery shop checked the battery thoroughly and rectified the issue. I am was running the car on 44 DIN, he just replaced it with 55 DIN and EUREKA the car started with out any issues. Then and there I bought a new 55 DIN Battery and the car has been running well for few months now and cranks in a half second.

My suggestion would be to take the car to a battery shop and ask them to check if the car will start with a 50 or 55 DIN battery. If it does, then there is no need to do anything else.

Regards

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by chandrda

Faced exactly the same problem few months ago on my GTX...

Finally an auto electrician in a battery shop checked the battery thoroughly and rectified the issue. I am was running the car on 44 DIN, he just replaced it with 55 DIN and EUREKA the car started with out any issues. Then and there I bought a new 55 DIN Battery and the car has been running well for few months now and cranks in a half second...

I checked today and my car has a DIN44 battery from SF (Standard Furukawa) brand. And it was changed in 07/2010. I guess this could be the reason for the starting trouble.

I checked the manual and it lists DIN50 for both 1.2 & 1.6 Palios. Checked batterybhai.com and they show just DIN55 options. Will check some retail shops too. As of now, the price stands at ~5000/- with old battery exchange.

[chandrda]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I checked today and my car has a DIN44 battery from SF (Standard Furukawa) brand. And it was changed in 07/2010. I guess this could be the reason for the starting trouble.

I checked the manual and it lists DIN50 for both 1.2 & 1.6 Palios. Checked batterybhai.com and they show just DIN55 options. Will check some retail shops too. As of now, the price stands at ~5000/- with old battery exchange.

I think you can safely install DIN55 and if you have any doubts then the below thread should be able to clear it.

Exide DIN55 fits perfectly in the GTX battery tray. I paid 4800/- for Exide DIN55 with exchange of old battery at a retail shop

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...facturers.html

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by chandrda

I think you can safely install DIN55 and if you have any doubts then the below thread should be able to clear it.

Exide DIN55 fits perfectly in the GTX battery tray. I paid 4800/- for Exide DIN55 with exchange of old battery at a retail shop...

Got the battery replaced today with a DIN50 (Wanted to play safe as I read DIN55 may result in blown fuses).

The car now starts in half a crank. After all these days of violent starting, I am having trouble being easy on ignition!

Purchase details in the below post : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/mumbai...ml#post3885605

[R2D2]

Been using a Exide Matrix DIN55 in my 1.6 GTX. It exceeds the dimensions of the battery tray by an inch or so. But the next change will be a DIN50 which came as OEM fitment. If not the DIN50 then the DIN45. And this time it will be an Amaron for the simple reason I prefer to have removable caps to top up the water. The Exide is sealed and the only removable part is the magic eye which lets you top up water in only 1 cell.

The battery was manufactured in 2010 and installed in early 2011, making it 5 years old now and still going pretty strong. I expect it to last a few more months at least.

And no, a DIN55 does not blow any fuses. The only electrical issue this car has ever had in 14 years is a blown out voltage regulator. Removing the alternator from a 1.6 GTX is a major exercise.

[swiftnfurious]

I had my car washed early this week and while driving back, I experienced major idle rpm fluctuations. The temperature gauge also went above the half level mark in the stand still traffic till I switched on the A/C, after which it came down to 1/3rd level. I usually don't prefer washing the engine bay due to the problem of headlight moisture, but the wash was done in my absence and hence they washed the engine bay.

While starting after a couple of hours, it happened that the RPM stayed around 2000 and was revving by itself for a couple of times till I engaged the gear and started driving. But today, the problem seems to have rectified though the idle RPM while cranking in the morning stayed steadily at 1000; the normal being 700 or so (without A/C).

Has anyone faced this issue?

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I had my car washed early this week and while driving back, I experienced major idle rpm fluctuations. The temperature gauge also went above the half level mark in the stand still traffic till I switched on the A/C, after which it came down to 1/3rd level. I usually don't prefer washing the engine bay due to the problem of headlight moisture, but the wash was done in my absence and hence they washed the engine bay.

While starting after a couple of hours, it happened that the RPM stayed around 2000 and was revving by itself for a couple of times till I engaged the gear and started driving. But today, the problem seems to have rectified though the idle RPM while cranking in the morning stayed steadily at 1000; the normal being 700 or so (without A/C).

Has anyone faced this issue?

It is OK to wash the engine but with low pressure water. High pressure may cause moisture or water ingress. One of the sensors in your car may have suffered from this problem. Be especially careful about the ECU on the right hand side of the engine bay. There's a small rubber plug that must be always in place. Also these are older cars and wire insulation & connectors may have developed small indiscernible cracks which cause this problem. One needs to be careful.

I have noticed my 1.6 GTX (it was my Dad's vehicle) idling a just a tad rough after a wash or the engine is cold. It goes away after the engine has warmed up. So a rough cold idle is not unusual. Just FYI, the car had to go thru a HT coil replacement about 8-10 years ago.

[SunnyBoi]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I had my car washed early this week and while driving back, I experienced major idle rpm fluctuations. The temperature gauge also went above the half level mark in the stand still traffic till I switched on the A/C, after which it came down to 1/3rd level. I usually don't prefer washing the engine bay due to the problem of headlight moisture, but the wash was done in my absence and hence they washed the engine bay.

Low speed of radiator fan is not working. Check the resistor and replace it.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

While starting after a couple of hours, it happened that the RPM stayed around 2000 and was revving by itself for a couple of times till I engaged the gear and started driving. But today, the problem seems to have rectified though the idle RPM while cranking in the morning stayed steadily at 1000; the normal being 700 or so (without A/C).

Does your car rev like this without touching the throttle pedal?

https://youtu.be/vUfEU_oDd5Y

If yes, throttle position sensor is acting up. You may need to change the throttle body soon.

[rikhav]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I had my car washed early this week and while driving back, I experienced major idle rpm fluctuations. The temperature gauge also went above the half level mark in the stand still traffic till I switched on the A/C, after which it came down to 1/3rd level. I usually don't prefer washing the engine bay due to the problem of headlight moisture, but the wash was done in my absence and hence they washed the engine bay.

While starting after a couple of hours, it happened that the RPM stayed around 2000 and was revving by itself for a couple of times till I engaged the gear and started driving. But today, the problem seems to have rectified though the idle RPM while cranking in the morning stayed steadily at 1000; the normal being 700 or so (without A/C).

Has anyone faced this issue?

Hi
SInce the time ignition coil in my car failed after a wet wash in the engine bay, I have stopped using water to clean in engine bay. Infact, have stopped high pressure air too as it loosens the headlight connectors as they have become very fragile due to age

About the rpm staying at 1000 during a cold start, its been happening in my petra the same way. The RPM drops to 700 once the engine has warmed a little bit

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by SunnyBoi

Low speed of radiator fan is not working. Check the resistor and replace it...

I guess it's shot. Checked the fan today and it works only around 5s after switching on the A/C and is LOUD (Stage 2). Now, I most probably need to source the resistor, second time in almost 6 months!

Originally Posted by SunnyBoi

... Does your car rev like this without touching the throttle pedal?...
If yes, throttle position sensor is acting up. You may need to change the throttle body soon...

Yes, it was like this. But, thankfully, it's all good now and the RPM is stable. Guess it was the water wash which caused it.