[Heavy Horse]

Originally Posted by debuda

Analysis of fuel consumption data of my XUV-W6 over 10,000 KM

Debuda, now that you have been "grounded" (in Jamshedpur, I presume) over the last couple of months, have you got data on FE for city driving only? It will be interesting to see what you are getting now, especially on TF2TF basis.

Second question relates to tyre rotation at the 10K service. In the past I have always got the tyre rotation done by my tyrewalla in front of my eyes. However with all this tyretronics business in the XUV, it is better to get it done during service at the ASS. How to ensure that it is actually done. Any ideas?

[debuda]

Originally Posted by Heavy Horse

Debuda, now that you have been "grounded" (in Jamshedpur, I presume) over the last couple of months, have you got data on FE for city driving only? It will be interesting to see what you are getting now, especially on TF2TF basis.

Second question relates to tyre rotation at the 10K service. In the past I have always got the tyre rotation done by my tyrewalla in front of my eyes. However with all this tyretronics business in the XUV, it is better to get it done during service at the ASS. How to ensure that it is actually done. Any ideas?

1) The old girl and I were visiting (I try to avoid using the word 'holidaying' because I don't work and many people assume that not working is the same thing as being on a perpetual holiday!) some places in Thailand and Cambodia and got back to Calcutta a few hours ago. The XUV had been parked at a relative's place in Calcutta during our absence. We will drive back to Jampot in a couple of days time.

2) My driving in Jamshedpur is negligible, more so ever since I bought the XUV, and so I can't give you a reliable figure of FE for city driving. But I estimate it to be around 11 or 12 KMPL with AC.

3) The User Manual gives a diagram which explains how the 5 tyres have to be rotated after 10,000 KM. I made sure (in front of my eyes, as you say) that rotation was done exactly as per the book during my 2nd Free Service and you should do the same. My W6 does not have Tyretronics. In your W8, you'll need to get your Tyretronics recalibrated after the rotation and it is a simple procedure (I think it is explained in the Manual).

[Heavy Horse]

Originally Posted by debuda

3) The User Manual gives a diagram which explains how the 5 tyres have to be rotated after 10,000 KM. I made sure (in front of my eyes, as you say) that rotation was done exactly as per the book during my 2nd Free Service and you should do the same. My W6 does not have Tyretronics. In your W8, you'll need to get your Tyretronics recalibrated after the rotation and it is a simple procedure (I think it is explained in the Manual).

In front of my eyes.... that's so much easier to do with the "friendly neighbourhood tyrewalla" than at the ASS, more so since I hav'nt purchased the car from them. They just escort you to the Ac lounge and tell you to watch TV.!

I think I'll tell the ASS that I need to learn the tyretronics bit in case I have a flat, so could they please do it in front of me.

Good to know that you're now an airborne tourist...Hope you had a great time

[rkbharat]

Wonderful thread on maintaining XUV Debuda ji

Just a quick questions, did you felt ground clearance sufficient during your Nathu La drive?

[debuda]

Originally Posted by Heavy Horse

In front of my eyes.... that's so much easier to do with the "friendly neighbourhood tyrewalla" than at the ASS, more so since I hav'nt purchased the car from them. They just escort you to the Ac lounge and tell you to watch TV.!

I always try to maintain a good rapport with the concerned guys in the A.S.S. so that they allow me to observe what is being done to my car. I discreetly keep track of what the mechanic is doing without being intrusive. Even if the dealership is strict about not allowing customers in the workshop area, one can always request to speak to the mechanic or service adviser to understand what exactly is being done and why.

I owned Maruti cars for many years and I found that MASS are usually quite customer friendly and though all service centers have rules regarding not allowing customers in the service bay, they are flexible about it. The XUV is my first M&M car and my experience with the local dealer cum A.S.S. has been equally positive so far. As I mentioned earlier, personal equation is the key.

There have been occasions when my 'supervision' at the A.S.S. really helped. Once a MASS was about to pour engine oil meant for petrol cars in my diesel Swift and my timely intervention prevented this.

For learning how to calibrate tyretronics, etc., the best way is to ask the RM who in turn would put you in touch with the concerned technician.

Originally Posted by rkbharat

Wonderful thread on maintaining XUV Debuda ji

Just a quick questions, did you felt ground clearance sufficient during your Nathu La drive?

Thanks. During my drive to Nathu La and subsequently to North Sikkim, I did not have any significant issues with GC of my XUV. There were a few minor bottom scrapes though. I think the GC of XUV is adequate unless one wants to do serious off-roading.

Actually, it is while driving on some horribly cratered roads of Jharkhand that I find the GC to be a bit on the lower side. Both my rear mud flaps have got yanked off on such roads.

[debuda]

Minor niggle -- AC air vent becomes defective

A few weeks ago I was driving with two persons sitting in the second row and one of them complained that no air was coming out of the air vent on the right side. Upon inspecting the air vent I found that though the wheel for opening / closing the vent was free to turn, the vent was stuck in the closed position.

Subsequently I got the air vent assembly replaced FOC under warranty. It was found that the linkage (made of plastic) connecting the wheel with the flap had broken.



The B-pillar air vent assembly (RHS)







View of the air vent with flap closed




View of the air vent with flap open




View of the B-pillar where the air vent is fitted

[SDP]

Originally Posted by debuda

Minor niggle -- AC air vent becomes defective

A few weeks ago I was driving with two persons sitting in the second row and one of them complained that no air was coming out of the air vent on the right side. Upon inspecting the air vent I found that though the wheel for opening / closing the vent was free to turn, the vent was stuck in the closed position.

Deja vu! Had the exact same problem (2nd row right side) during first week of ownership.

Subsequently I got the air vent assembly replaced FOC under warranty. It was found that the linkage (made of plastic) connecting the wheel with the flap had broken.

For my case the linkage was not broken but stuck.


--------------------------------------
Debuda,
On a separate note, do you feel that even with the flap completely open, the airflow on the 2nd row is not adequate?

The AC is perfect. I am not talking about the cooling capability. Just the blower power..specifically for the 2nd row.

[debuda]

Originally Posted by SDP

On a separate note, do you feel that even with the flap completely open, the airflow on the 2nd row is not adequate?

The AC is perfect. I am not talking about the cooling capability. Just the blower power..specifically for the 2nd row.

I am unable to comment on this because so far I never sat on the second row!

However, second row passengers have never complained about inadequacy of cooling or air flow.

[debuda]

ODO : 18,000 KM; Drive to Kashmir / Ladakh




I recently returned to Jamshedpur after a wonderful drive to Kashmir / Ladakh. I intend posting a picture-travelogue on TBHP but this involves selecting a handful of pictures out of the 1500 or so which I clicked and will take some time. Meanwhile, here’s the tech report :

Overall : Prior to this trip I had undertaken three major long drives from Jamshedpur – (1) to Delhi, Amritsar, Kasauli and Nainital; (2) to Gangtok, Nathu La, Lachung and Yumthang; (3) to Chilka, Vizag, Araku Valley and Gopalpur. But this trip to Kashmir / Ladakh was the big daddy of all my trips during the last 7 months of XUV ownership. Not only were the duration (25 days) and total distance (6,576 km) the highest, the degree of difficulty was much greater, even when compared to the Sikkim trip. Being the only hard core driving enthusiast in the team, I drove the entire 6,576 km myself (same was the situation during my Sikkim and Vizag trips; only during the Amritsar / Kasauli trip I could periodically relax and confidently hand over the steering wheel to my son-in-law Sandeep who is a very capable driver).

My XUV-W6 once again proved to be a reliable, capable and efficient machine. This trip involved crossing several high altitude mountain passes and some of the roads were quite bad and treacherous. Furthermore, I found a lot of water / slush / mud on high-altitude roads due to copious amounts of melting snow. One would probably feel more comfortable (less stress for the driver) with AWD / 4WD on slush, mud and ice (yes, there were a few places where I had no choice but to drive on ice, but such stretches were very few and also very short) but my FWD did not let me down anywhere.

High-altitude performance : During this trip I could distinctly perceive the reduction of engine power at high altitudes as long distances needed to be covered between the altitudes of 13,000 to 18,000 feet and many mountain passes had to be climbed. There were 5 adults plus a fair amount of luggage in the XUV and so it could be considered almost fully loaded. But the XUV engine has adequate power on tap and by choosing a lower gear and maintaining a slightly higher RPM all obstacles could be easily crossed.

View of the luggage space.



Incidentally, out of the 5 of us, my own baggage was the minimum, both in weight and volume. Note the apt tag on my daughter's bag!



Sub-zero temperature issues : Though I drove through mountain passes early in the mornings when the ambient temp was minus 4 deg C, the car was never parked overnight at sub-zero temperatures (unlike during the Sikkim trip) and so there were no issues like starting problem, diesel freezing or ice on the windshield. Incidentally, low temperatures slightly compensate for high-altitude as far as engine power is concerned. At high altitudes, the number of molecules of oxygen per litre of air greatly reduces, reducing the quantity of fuel that can be combusted in each cylinder and, in turn, the power output. However, colder air is a bit denser and is easier to compress in the turbocharger (greater boost pressure) and this partially compensates for the rarefied air at high altitudes. Please note that this compensation is only partial, otherwise the reduction of engine power at altitudes greater than 13,000 feet would not have been so obvious to me.

Suspension : Performed wonderfully throughout. With the XUV almost fully loaded, the suspension was subjected to some bad jolts but took them in its stride. Suspension of the XUV certainly inspires confidence. There were no squeaks or any abnormal noise heard from the suspension.

Ground clearance : On the whole, I found the GC adequate. But there were a few bottom scrapes, usually while crossing large puddles with invisible submerged boulders or raised areas. While going from Srinagar to Kargil, I had to cross one such large water-filled crater near Zozi La and I could hear the sound of the bottom getting scraped. After coming out of the puddle, there was a loud noise of something rubbing against the ground. When I stopped the car and peeped under it, I saw that a part of the engine bottom guard (black plastic) was hanging loose and touching the ground.


Due to melting snow, there are many large puddles, even flowing streams, on high-altitide mountain roads.


Luckily, there was a flat paved road surface just 20 metres ahead of where this problem took place. The road was also quite wide there. So I drove the car 20 metres (with the scraping noise coming) and parked it on the flat paved road. A Xylo which was ahead of me heard the scraping noise and stopped to help. I decided to get under the car to find and fix the problem. The driver of the Xylo helped me in jacking up the front RHS of the car. Thereafter, I spread a sheet and crept under the car. After inspection it was clear that I needed to cut off the part of the bottom guard which was bent and touching the ground.


Jacking up the XUV takes a lot of effort. Maybe I should invest in a small hydraulic jack.



The broken part of the engine guard which was touching the ground can be seen in this picture.



First, I tried to cut off the bottom guard with a pair of scissors. It didn’t work as the plastic is thick and hard. Luckily, I was also carrying a mini hacksaw in my tool kit and with it I could saw off the bent part within a minute. The problem was solved.

Tyres : The Bridgestone Duelers worked very well and offered adequate traction and cushioning under adverse conditions. I would like to place on record here that unlike some other XUV owners I have never yet faced the problem of misalignment or the car pulling to one side. While driving on straight and smooth roads I sometimes leave the steering wheel to ascertain whether the car is pulling to one side. Also, I periodically examine (visually) the front tyre treads for signs of uneven wear. So far everything seems to be fine.

Interestingly, a few months back when I happened to be enquiring about the wheel alignment setup at my ASC at Jamshedpur, my R.M. advised me against getting the alignment adjusted there as there were reports of alignment getting worse after the adjustment!

Steering : Fully satisfied.

Engine : No complaints. Keeps on delivering effortlessly. As mentioned earlier, there was perceptible drop in power output at altitudes above 13,000 feet and I needed to push it harder. During this trip the turbo whine somehow seemed more audible than before, though I couldn’t exactly understand why. I need to concentrate on this sound during my future long drives.

Transmission : Fully satisfied.

Brakes : No major issues. On two occasions a shrill metallic grinding noise was heard from one of the front wheels (without the application of brakes) with the car moving at slow speed. As I had faced this issue earlier, I simply kept driving and on both occasions the noise vanished after a few minutes as suddenly as it had appeared. I think this noise comes when some hard particle gets lodged between the brake pad and disc. On one of the occasions the noise started after crossing a deep muddy puddle.

Air-conditioning : For the first time since purchasing the car 7 months ago, AC was put to the acid test with ambient temp. in the region of 43-44 deg C. And it passed the test with flying colours.

Cruise control : Both while driving to Delhi and returning from there, I took the Yamuna Expressway and used cruise control continuously on the Y.E. Thus my cruise control was tested over a distance of approx 350 km during this trip and it worked flawlessly.

Breakdown : I got a real scare when I started from Kargil (for Leh) on the morning of 17 May and after 500m or so the car stopped and refused to restart (though the starter was cranking the engine properly, it was not starting). 'Check Engine' lamp came on and there were also some strange symptoms (brake lights remaining on without applying brakes, remote locking / unlocking non-functional, infotainment system remaining ON even without inserting ignition key).

First I tried to reboot the system by disconnecting and reconnecting the battery. But it didn’t help. To make matters worse, the engine could not be cranked now. I called M&M Roadside Assistance and they made me talk to a technician who advised (even after being briefed in detail about the symptoms) me to purge the fuel system. Though I was not convinced, I purged the system as advised but the engine could not be started.

When I reported the situation to M&M, they decided to send a flat bed truck from Srinagar and carry the XUV to a Service Center at Srinagar. This was going to be a major exercise as Zozi La pass (very bad and treacherous roads) needed to be crossed between Srinagar and Kargil. Also, at least 2-3 days would have been lost. I was convinced that the problem was with electronics only and could be rectified in-situ. After many phone calls I finally convinced the Service Manager in charge of J&K to render in-situ assistance and not take the XUV to Srinagar. I also requested Heavy Horse (I had his phone number) to escalate the matter as there were 5 (including 2 young ladies) of us in the XUV and the entire Ladakh trip was at stake. Finally, a M&M dealership-cum-ASC (dealing in Boleros, Scorpios) was identified in Kargil and they were directed by M&M to render assistance in-situ.

My XUV was towed to the Kargil ASC just 2 KM from where I was stranded. During investigations some moisture was found inside the fuse-box inside the engine compartment. After drying it with compressed air everything became normal and the engine started.


Purging the fuel system -- an exercise in futility.




A Bolero pick-up truck getting ready to tow my XUV.




The tow rope brought by the pick-up truck parted even before my XUV could get moving. Then my own nylon rope (bought in Delhi) came in handy.




Little moisture was found in the fuse box inside the engine compartment.




My XUV being attended to at M/s Vehicleage, Kargil.



Apparently, the problem occurred because I got the XUV washed at Kargil the previous evening. Some water was splashed inside the engine compartment during the washing.

Overall, the support and response received from M&M during this ordeal was quite positive. They even offered to give us a car free of cost to proceed with our planned trip to Leh while my XUV was taken to Srinagar and repaired. Because the Kargil workshop was not equipped to service XUVs, M&M decided to follow their standard operating procedure of towing the car to the nearest XUV workshop (Srinagar). It took a lot of effort on my part to persuade them to deviate from their SOP and render in-situ assistance. This turned out to be the best decision (both for M&M and me) as the root cause of the electronic fault was a relatively minor one.

Niggles :

1. One peculiar niggle with the music system started about halfway through the trip. With the car running and the music playing (any source) there would be a sudden loud low frequency sound from the speakers and the music would stop. The indications of music playing and volume level would be seen on the display but no sound comes from the speakers. Initially we all thought that the sound was coming due to some loose object rolling about inside the car and dashing against something; only later I realized that there was no loose object and the sound was apparently coming from the speakers. After turning the ignition off and on, the music system returns to normal.
   
2. Some minor body squeaks raise their ugly heads sometimes on rough roads.
   
3. One of the horns (left side) stopped working towards the end of this trip. The reason was that one of the two electrical wires to that horn snapped. It may be recalled that one of the wires of the same horn had snapped earlier during my Sikkim trip. If the wires to the horns repeatedly break off, it can definitely be interpreted as either a design flaw or sub-standard quality of wiring.

Mileage : I don’t have much faith on the DIS reported mileage any longer. It is indicative, at best. In my case, whenever I reset it and go for a long drive, it usually increases to 18.0 kmpl quite soon and gets stuck there. So I have to rely on tankful-to-tankful method only.

The overall mileage over this entire trip works out to a phenomenal 15.63 kmpl. This mileage has been calculated over 6648 km by TF to TF method and is reasonably accurate. AC was used non-stop in the plains (where ambient temp. was as high as 43-44 deg C) and as required in the hills. It is worth noting that even while driving in Srinagar, Gulmarg and Pahalgam AC was required. During most of the driving in the mountains there were 5 adults and lots of luggage in the car. During the legs Jamshedpur-Delhi and Srinagar-Delhi-Jamshedpur there were 3 adults plus their luggage in the car.

Battle scars : On a narrow mountain road my XUV was lightly grazed by an Army truck. It was entirely the Army driver’s fault as a big convoy of trucks was coming from the opposite direction and I had pulled over and completely stopped my car to allow the convoy to pass. A few trucks passed my car without any problem but this one bad driver came too close to my car and grazed it. Fortunately, the damage was not much – a few deep scratches.


Battle scars!

[nitinralli]

Good to see only common niggles came out in this trip (break screeching, plastic guard coming off etc) and nothing serious. It does inspire confidence to take XUV to these extreme places.

[SS-Traveller]

Thanks for a detailed technical report.

Originally Posted by debuda

During investigations some moisture was found inside the fuse-box inside the engine compartment. After drying it with compressed air everything became normal and the engine started.

Apparently, the problem occurred because I got the XUV washed at Kargil the previous evening. Some water was splashed inside the engine compartment during the washing.

Couldn't help but smile at your predicament. One of the SOPs of my long trips is never to perform a high pressure wash of the car anywhere on the way. As long as my windshields, lights and ORVMs are clean, I don't mind 1" of mud on the rest of the car.

The SOP was adopted after my Amby engine stopped and refused to start 1500 km from home, some 25 years ago, due to moisture in the distributor cap after a thorough pressure wash. Of course, it was not too difficult to fix, compared to a complicated electronics-loaded car like the XUV.

Edit: I find it ridiculous that the RM advised you against getting the alignment adjusted as there were reports of alignment getting worse after the adjustment! Checking alignment values is the least he can do for a car undertaking a cross-country trip.

Shall look forward to your travelogue.

[anandtheleo]

Nice trip, about the music player problem, the symptoms seem similar to the problems faced in my W6. They replaced the silver box in my vehicle. Do check out my post on this in the niggles thread.

[SDP]

Thanks for the detailed report. We did hear about the engine not starting issue through Heavy_Horse. Glad that it was a minor issue.

One question: From the time you discovered that the car is not starting, till the time you were back on road after getting the issue resolved at Kargil M&M A.S.S., how many hours were lost?

[debuda]

Originally Posted by SDP

One question: From the time you discovered that the car is not starting, till the time you were back on road after getting the issue resolved at Kargil M&M A.S.S., how many hours were lost?

We were back on the road in about 3 hours. This time could have been shorter, had the problem occurred after 9:30 AM when offices, dealerships and workshops are ready to face the day's challenges. Since my problem started around 8:30 AM, it took about 1 hour more for M&M to get their act together.

[carzone]

Nice report debuda sir. Now, looking forward to your TL.

Good to hear that the XUV performed as per the expectations on high altitudes as well. That breakdown would have made you lost many hours.

On a positive note, nice to see that M&M are being customer friendly by providing a spare car even in that area. Nice move there.

They even offered to give us a car free of cost to proceed with our planned trip to Leh while my XUV was taken to Srinagar and repaired.