[4WheelPilot]

Very Informative thread Karan! Few months back we were deliberating on a suitable car to buy(Seltos vs Creta) for dad and your thread made us to go for the Seltos Turbo petrol manual! The MT vs DCT debate continued for a while and finally decided to go with 1.4 MT. It's a fun car to drive and I can't wait to be back in Odisha and drive the Seltos

[Abhi_Automobile]

Originally Posted by 4WheelPilot

Very Informative thread Karan! Few months back we were deliberating on a suitable car to buy(Seltos vs Creta) for dad and your thread made us to go for the Seltos Turbo petrol manual! The MT vs DCT debate continued for a while and finally decided to go with 1.4 MT. It's a fun car to drive and I can't wait to be back in Odisha and drive the Seltos

Which MT version of 1.4 turbo? I though the only one available was GTK, which got discontinued a while ago. What am I missing here?

Mods: Got posted by mistake. Could you please delete?

[4WheelPilot]

GTX Plus 1.4, the one which has 360 degree camera and Suroof

[karan561]

3rd Free Service;

Total Work Done was as under;

1) Engine Oil Change
2) Engine Oil Filter Change
3) Air Filter Replacement
4) A/C Filter Cleaning
5) Interior Vacuuming
6) Exterior Wash
7) All Doors Greasing as they were squeaking
8) Fuel Cap Release Function was having some issue post monsoons hence that too was taken care off.
9) 4 Tyre/Wheel Rotation.
10) All Brakes were cleaned of the brake dust.

Here are some pictures;















Total Cost was INR 2097/- & work got completed in around 2Hrs & 15mins. Good job done by Shreenath Kia, Thane.

[Nalin1]

Many thanks for updating service stories!.

KIA being a new player yet and having struck gold in India, people like me who do not own KIA cars but very interested in their progress going forward, look forward to owner's experiences.

KIA, having sold lakhs of cars now have their next biggest challenge of sustaining their brand value and products.

Only recently did I have a very close at the Seltos. Gosh, it is a beautiful car and a sureshot winner !.

[karan561]

Originally Posted by 4WheelPilot

Very Informative thread Karan! Few months back we were deliberating on a suitable car to buy(Seltos vs Creta) for dad and your thread made us to go for the Seltos Turbo petrol manual! The MT vs DCT debate continued for a while and finally decided to go with 1.4 MT. It's a fun car to drive and I can't wait to be back in Odisha and drive the Seltos

Hi 4WheelPilot,

Thanks for your appreciation towards my thread & congratulations on your 1.4 M/T .

Also, sorry for a delayed response.

Originally Posted by Nalin1

Many thanks for updating service stories!.

KIA being a new player yet and having struck gold in India, people like me who do not own KIA cars but very interested in their progress going forward, look forward to owner's experiences.

KIA, having sold lakhs of cars now have their next biggest challenge of sustaining their brand value and products.

Only recently did I have a very close at the Seltos. Gosh, it is a beautiful car and a sureshot winner !.

Hey Nalin,

Yes, updating service related information has always been my habit on all my ownership threads as it always remains a reference for me in the future, so thanks to TEAM-BHP for that

[sagwal]

Originally Posted by shaheenazk

It will not pose reliability issues if the car is brought to neutral in stop and go traffic situations and when idling at red lights. DCT is always engaging the clutch even at zero speed if drive mode D is engaged. The driver has to be mindful of this fact and avoid riding the clutch unnecessarily.

Does manual says anything about it ?
I am having DSG and nowhere it is mentioned in manual to engage N when car is idling at red lights. But even in DSG it is advised ( in team bhp threads) to keep it in N.

I still feel that car detects the brakes applied and reduces the clutch engagement so preventing the wear. If we have to shift to N during bumper to bumper traffic then what is point of having automatic car ??

[shaheenazk]

Originally Posted by sagwal

Does manual says anything about it ?
I am having DSG and nowhere it is mentioned in manual to engage N when car is idling at red lights. But even in DSG it is advised ( in team bhp threads) to keep it in N.

I still feel that car detects the brakes applied and reduces the clutch engagement so preventing the wear. If we have to shift to N during bumper to bumper traffic then what is point of having automatic car ??

If there is an option of N in DCT gear lever then obviously it is meant to be used when the car is stationary and the engine is running. Else why would the manufacturer be giving the N option in the first place? Clutch is not completely disengaged when breaks are applied. Even if shifting to N in stop and go traffic is necessary, atleast the left foot is still given rest. How hard is it to engage the left arm?

[sagwal]

Originally Posted by shaheenazk

If there is an option of N in DCT gear lever then obviously it is meant to be used when the car is stationary and the engine is running. Else why would the manufacturer be giving the N option in the first place? Clutch is not completely disengaged when breaks are applied. Even if shifting to N in stop and go traffic is necessary, atleast the left foot is still given rest. How hard is it to engage the left arm?

As per Volkswagen owner manual I could find these two instances where N position is used.

a) If the vehicle has been driven at high load for a long period, the engine can overheat when it is switched off. In order to avoid damage to the engine, allow the engine to run in neutral for approximately two minutes before switching it off.

b) Towing : Pulled vehicle (rear) >>select the selector lever position N.

[shaheenazk]

Originally Posted by sagwal

As per Volkswagen owner manual I could find these two instances where N position is used.

It seems you did not get my point.

The purpose of Neutral is to let the engine rev freely when the vehicle is stationary, say at traffic lights or in bumper to bumper traffic. In order to let the engine freely, it has to be disengaged from the transmission (which in turn rotates the wheels). The clutch is what does the job of disengagement/engagement repeatedly depending upon the driving conditions. In earlier days, clutch had to be engaged manually by FULLY depressing the clutch pedal to either disengage/engage the engine from the transmission. Now-a-days that has been taken over by CVT, AMT and DCT. However, the clutch has not been removed. Instead, there are two clutches mated to odd and even number gears in case of DCT. To increase the longevity of the clutch plates, the Neutral option must be used whenever the vehicle is stationary and if the engine is running.

This is a working principal of DCT equipped cars and it cannot be over-looked. This information will not be found in the manual. If you still want to operate the vehicle by riding on the clutch, (by slightly taking off the foot of the brake pedal) then nobody is stopping you but it shall lead to premature excessive wear and tear of clutch plates and over-heating of the transmission. Replacement of DCT transmissions is a very, very costly affair.

[sagwal]

Originally Posted by shaheenazk

It seems you did not get my point.

To increase the longevity of the clutch plates, the Neutral option must be used whenever the vehicle is stationary and if the engine is running.

This is a working principal of DCT equipped cars and it cannot be over-looked. This information will not be found in the manual. If you still want to operate the vehicle by riding on the clutch, (by slightly taking off the foot of the brake pedal) then nobody is stopping you but it shall lead to premature excessive wear and tear of clutch plates and over-heating of the transmission. Replacement of DCT transmissions is a very, very costly affair.

Thank you so much for detailed explanation. I am also keeping it in neutral at red lights to be on the safe side.


Below is the youtube link of Channel Engineering Explained where he clearly states at beginning of the video that no need to keep the car(7-speed dry clutch DCT) in Neutral at stop as. This is very renowned youtube channel about cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W42zsFYjZvM

On T Roc UK forum and found this:
trocforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1664&p=24763&hilit=Creep#p2476 3
Regarding moving into N, no not required. The car detects the brakes applied and reduces the clutch engagement so preventing the wear. This from VW some years ago when I was new to DSG

"Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding your Volkswagen Tiguan’s DSG transmission.

I have forwarded your enquiry to our Technical Support Team, who has offered the following advice regarding the creep control of your vehicle’s DSG transmission; please note the information offered is not for use on any non-approved forums:

Creep control "Creep" refers to the creep behaviour which a conventional automatic gearbox with a torque converter exhibits when the engine is idling and a gear is selected. The creep control function works like this: when the engine is idling and a gear is selected, a defined slip torque is set at the clutch (clutch torque) causing the vehicle to "creep". This allows the vehicle to be manoeuvred (e.g. when parking) without using the accelerator pedal, thus enhancing driving comfort. The vehicle behaves as one would expect an automatic gearbox to. The clutch torque is adjusted to between 1 and 40 Nm, depending on the driving condition and vehicle road speed.*A special feature of the creep control is that of reduced clutch torque at vehicle standstill with the brake applied, whereby less torque is required of the engine (the clutch is further open). Clutch torque is reduced to approx. 1 Nm, depending on the brake pressure. The tendency of the vehicle to creep is reduced accordingly.

I hope this information proves to be of use.

Thank you for contacting Volkswagen UK

[shaheenazk]

Originally Posted by sagwal

Below is the Youtube link of Channel Engineering Explained where he clearly states at beginning of the video that no need to keep the car(7-speed dry clutch DCT) in Neutral at stop as. This is very renowned Youtube channel about cars.

Creep control "Creep" refers to the creep behaviour which a conventional automatic gearbox with a torque converter exhibits when the engine is idling and a gear is selected.

Thank you for contacting Volkswagen UK

Engineering Explained guy is a very knowledgeable person and even I follow him. However, if your car's clutch plates prematurely wears out or if there is an issue with the transmission because of over-heating due to riding the clutch in stop and go traffic, he is not going to pay for your bills. Better to be safe than sorry. If you want to be very sure about this then find out if the engine is FULLY disengaged from the transmission automatically when it comes to complete standstill without putting the gear lever into Neutral.

[sagwal]

Originally Posted by shaheenazk

If you want to be very sure about this then find out if the engine is FULLY disengaged from the transmission automatically when it comes to complete standstill without putting the gear lever into Neutral.

Found this in owner manual


Thanks to its design, the DSG® dual clutch gearbox is more efficient than an automatic gearbox. Whereas in an automatic gearbox the torque converter is constantly in use, in the DSG® dual clutch gearbox the clutch can be opened at idling speed, thus saving fuel.

[shaheenazk]

Originally Posted by sagwal

Found this in owner manual


Thanks to its design, the DSG® dual clutch gearbox is more efficient than an automatic gearbox. Whereas in an automatic gearbox the torque converter is constantly in use, in the DSG® dual clutch gearbox the clutch can be opened at idling speed, thus saving fuel.

If the clutch is really open (which I am presuming they mean full disengagement from the transmission) at idling, then why is DSG infamous for over heating issues? Is it because there is a defect in the technology or is it because people drive their vehicles equipped with DSG, on half clutch in stop and go traffic?

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by shaheenazk

If the clutch is really open (which I am presuming they mean full disengagement from the transmission) at idling, then why is DSG infamous for over heating issues? Is it because there is a defect in the technology or is it because people drive their vehicles equipped with DSG, on half clutch in stop and go traffic?

Guess full disengagement depends on the pressure you're applying on the brake pedal. If one applies the brake full and hard, it disengages fully. But people tend to move in b2b traffic by only modulating the brakes by making use of the creep function. During such instances, the clutch doesn't disengage fully and is the root cause of overheating issues what we keep hearing on DSG/DCT equipped cars.

VW India group taking off DSG from their Vento, Rapid
and Polo and opting for torque converter is a clear indication that DSG isn't a great choice for Indian city driving conditions. Or were there other reasons too?