Everything about Wheel Alignment: Post your queries here

Monaro CV8 · 5th May 2010, 11:51

@ Nikhil

Here's how we progressed into isolating the fault (Supposedly):
Got the wheel alignment & balancing done from one shop, rechecked it from another shop. All good.

My Garage guy had a look at the car - suspensions, steering system, tyre rod ends, bearings & axles.
Everything turned out to be fine, except the front left axle. They tested the car, while being raised on the hydraulic jacks, wthout the wheels.
The head mechanic suspects the front left axle bearing has a play, hence the cause of all my issues (wheel noise, left pulling & high speed wobbling).

Chief Mechanic: The only way out is to change the Front Left Axle. The axle bearing cannot be repaired/ replaced.
Me: That things a staggering Rs.35+K !

Now my argument is - why the axle? Axles are supposed to be the most hardened, toughened & strongest part of a car (since it deals with transmission of power). How come it has fouled at 90K running of my car?

Got my head scratching

Cant there be any other part that needs to be looked at for fault?

Any suggestions?

Nikhilb2008 · 5th May 2010, 14:11

Well, I'm surprised that the bearings cant be replaced! Since it's a Skoda, please take a second opinion.

Gansan · 17th May 2010, 07:13

I got tyre rotation/WA/WB and water wash done free at MSM yesterday as it was offered free for insurance renewal. While going through the alignment report the SA mentioned that only toe can be adjusted in Alto. Castor and camber can't be adjusted, and if they go beyond the tolerances, the respective parts will have to be inspected and replaced, but that will be extremely rare. Is this the only way?

Digital Vampire · 17th May 2010, 09:01

After the last wheel alignment & balancing on my Hyundai Tucson, I feel a mild steering wobble between 100-115 kmph. The wobble goes away below 100 or above 115 kmph. Any suggestions on what could be wrong?

Nikhilb2008 · 17th May 2010, 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gansan

I got tyre rotation/WA/WB and water wash done free at MSM yesterday as it was offered free for insurance renewal. While going through the alignment report the SA mentioned that only toe can be adjusted in Alto. Castor and camber can't be adjusted, and if they go beyond the tolerances, the respective parts will have to be inspected and replaced, but that will be extremely rare. Is this the only way?

Yes. Perfectly right. And in the Alto, only front Toe can be adjusted. Not the rear Toe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital Vampire

After the last wheel alignment & balancing on my Hyundai Tucson, I feel a mild steering wobble between 100-115 kmph. The wobble goes away below 100 or above 115 kmph. Any suggestions on what could be wrong?

Could be a tyre issue. If it's a proper wheel balancing issue, it should remain. However, do get the balancing checked and then ask the technician to inspect the tyres as well.

Also, get the pressures checked.

If none of these work, the suspension could be at fault.

gpa · 17th May 2010, 11:35

So went to Madhus on April 17 and met Nikhil and got this problem sorted. The toe was off on the front LHS and that was corrected by the technician and the drifting has stopped.

As far as the low speed wobble was concerned, Nikhil also pointed out that two of my wheels have a very slight elliptical motion when being spun on the wheel balancer and put that down to either a problem with the tyre (MRF ZVTS) or the rim itself. I have driven over some really bad roads on the BLR-Pondy highway and perhaps this contributed to this problem.

On alternating the wheels, this problems seems to have been brought under control and is barely noticeable now.

I know this is overdue by a month, but I have been busy traveling. Thanks a lot Nikhil, for your help.

Guess, the only way for the wobble to be addressed is to change tyres, which I plan to do in a year along with a change to alloys.

Regards,
gpa

Twiny · 19th May 2010, 21:30

Why the existing weights need to be removed, prior to a routine Wheel Balancing ?

Does weights in excess of 75gm/alloy wheel indicate uneven tyre/rim wear ?

Nikhilb2008 · 20th May 2010, 08:45

Twiny --- Those weights have a certain lifespan. the clip that holds the weights to the rim loses it's tensile strength over a period of time.

Usually people get wheel balancing done once in 5,000 kms which comes up to 6 months. Sometimes more. Now, if you dont remove that clip, after another 1000 or 2000 kms, it could fall off leaving your wheel unbalanced. Then you have to again go and get it balanced! It's a hassle.

That is why it is mostly recommended to remove the old weights first and then do the balancing.

Twiny · 20th May 2010, 10:40

Thanks Nikhil... so like weight_clips, Sticker weights loose its adherence to alloys wheels, I suppose.

Nikhilb2008 · 20th May 2010, 11:00

Yup. They do. But not as often as clip on weights.

The thing is, many times, a wheel requires more weights if you have tried to balance it with the existing weights. But when oyu remove the existing weights, it requires much lesser.

When you do this with a normal clip on weight, you can re-use the removed weight(if it shows lesser EXTRA weight) but with sticker weights, once you remove it, you cannot reuse it.

Reusing even clip on weights isnt recommended. some tyre shops use removed weights and the problem with this is they fall off after a while.

liner4u · 20th May 2010, 11:01

@Nikhil : I have a skoda fabia which has clocked 52k. The front set of tyres are just 10k old but I get steering vibration in speeds excess of 60kms. I have checked the alignment but still the problem exists. Also my steering position is not centered and has a tilt to the left. I asked the alignment people to rectify this and they did, but after a few hundred kms its back to the same tilt position. I am confused and wondering what to do. Please help

Nikhilb2008 · 20th May 2010, 11:09

Well, since the problem was solved after alignment, it means it is an alignment problem only.

Do get it checked again. And the alignment shouldnt get spoilt after a few hundred kms. but it can happen ocassionally.

The vibration seems to be due to bad balancing. Or excessive tyre pressures. Or uneven tyre wear.

I would put it down to a combination of bad balancing and uneven tyre wear. I'm assuming you have uneven tyre wear because your alignment also seems a little off.

Nikhilb2008 · 3rd June 2010, 00:11

YouTube - Wheel Alignment: Why Do Cars Need Wheel Alignment

YouTube - Wheel Alignment: What Causes Alignment to Change

Found these two awesome videos! Seems to be uploaded by someone working at Hunter, but they are really informative and easy to understand.

http://www.hunter.com/pub/undercar/2470T/index.htm

drrusso · 3rd August 2010, 00:34

@Nikhil

I own a Fiat GP MJD which has clocked 12400 km. While crossing 6000 km i found the steering wheel to be tilted to the right. I did not give it a big issue, but then i find the front wheels wear more but evenly than the rear ones & i feel the mileage has been impaired by 1 km for every litre of diesel.

Before 1st service my MJD gave me a 17.3 km/l ., but now it is 16.1 km/l in the city. On highways it was 22 km/l & now it is 18.4 km/l.

I am in a dilemo what to do. Please advice.

Thanx.

Nikhilb2008 · 5th August 2010, 13:28

Alignment is wrong. when Alignment is wrong, even mileage can drop.

5th May 2010, 11:51	#76
Monaro CV8 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pune Posts: 578 Thanked: 567 Times View My Garage	update on my case.. @ Nikhil Here's how we progressed into isolating the fault (Supposedly): Got the wheel alignment & balancing done from one shop, rechecked it from another shop. All good. My Garage guy had a look at the car - suspensions, steering system, tyre rod ends, bearings & axles. Everything turned out to be fine, except the front left axle. They tested the car, while being raised on the hydraulic jacks, wthout the wheels. The head mechanic suspects the front left axle bearing has a play, hence the cause of all my issues (wheel noise, left pulling & high speed wobbling). Chief Mechanic: The only way out is to change the Front Left Axle. The axle bearing cannot be repaired/ replaced. Me: That things a staggering Rs.35+K ! Now my argument is - why the axle? Axles are supposed to be the most hardened, toughened & strongest part of a car (since it deals with transmission of power). How come it has fouled at 90K running of my car? Got my head scratching Cant there be any other part that needs to be looked at for fault? Any suggestions? Last edited by Monaro CV8 : 5th May 2010 at 11:56.
	() Thanks

5th May 2010, 14:11	#77
Nikhilb2008 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,195 Thanked: 10,177 Times	Well, I'm surprised that the bearings cant be replaced! Since it's a Skoda, please take a second opinion.
	() Thanks

17th May 2010, 07:13	#78
Gansan Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 4,625 Thanked: 5,917 Times	I got tyre rotation/WA/WB and water wash done free at MSM yesterday as it was offered free for insurance renewal. While going through the alignment report the SA mentioned that only toe can be adjusted in Alto. Castor and camber can't be adjusted, and if they go beyond the tolerances, the respective parts will have to be inspected and replaced, but that will be extremely rare. Is this the only way?
	() Thanks

17th May 2010, 09:01	#79
Digital Vampire BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Utopia! Posts: 605 Thanked: 121 Times	After the last wheel alignment & balancing on my Hyundai Tucson, I feel a mild steering wobble between 100-115 kmph. The wobble goes away below 100 or above 115 kmph. Any suggestions on what could be wrong? Last edited by Digital Vampire : 17th May 2010 at 09:03.
	() Thanks

17th May 2010, 11:35	#81
gpa Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,790 Thanked: 345 Times	Update on my drifting Alto So went to Madhus on April 17 and met Nikhil and got this problem sorted. The toe was off on the front LHS and that was corrected by the technician and the drifting has stopped. As far as the low speed wobble was concerned, Nikhil also pointed out that two of my wheels have a very slight elliptical motion when being spun on the wheel balancer and put that down to either a problem with the tyre (MRF ZVTS) or the rim itself. I have driven over some really bad roads on the BLR-Pondy highway and perhaps this contributed to this problem. On alternating the wheels, this problems seems to have been brought under control and is barely noticeable now. I know this is overdue by a month, but I have been busy traveling. Thanks a lot Nikhil, for your help. Guess, the only way for the wobble to be addressed is to change tyres, which I plan to do in a year along with a change to alloys. Regards, gpa
	() Thanks

19th May 2010, 21:30	#82
Twiny BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cochin-Bangalore Posts: 322 Thanked: 63 Times View My Garage	Why the existing weights need to be removed, prior to a routine Wheel Balancing ? Does weights in excess of 75gm/alloy wheel indicate uneven tyre/rim wear ?
	() Thanks

20th May 2010, 08:45	#83
Nikhilb2008 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,195 Thanked: 10,177 Times	Twiny --- Those weights have a certain lifespan. the clip that holds the weights to the rim loses it's tensile strength over a period of time. Usually people get wheel balancing done once in 5,000 kms which comes up to 6 months. Sometimes more. Now, if you dont remove that clip, after another 1000 or 2000 kms, it could fall off leaving your wheel unbalanced. Then you have to again go and get it balanced! It's a hassle. That is why it is mostly recommended to remove the old weights first and then do the balancing.
	() Thanks

20th May 2010, 10:40	#84
Twiny BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cochin-Bangalore Posts: 322 Thanked: 63 Times View My Garage	Thanks Nikhil... so like weight_clips, Sticker weights loose its adherence to alloys wheels, I suppose.
	() Thanks

20th May 2010, 11:00	#85
Nikhilb2008 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,195 Thanked: 10,177 Times	Yup. They do. But not as often as clip on weights. The thing is, many times, a wheel requires more weights if you have tried to balance it with the existing weights. But when oyu remove the existing weights, it requires much lesser. When you do this with a normal clip on weight, you can re-use the removed weight(if it shows lesser EXTRA weight) but with sticker weights, once you remove it, you cannot reuse it. Reusing even clip on weights isnt recommended. some tyre shops use removed weights and the problem with this is they fall off after a while.
	() Thanks

20th May 2010, 11:01	#86
liner4u BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Chennai Posts: 70 Thanked: 2 Times	@Nikhil : I have a skoda fabia which has clocked 52k. The front set of tyres are just 10k old but I get steering vibration in speeds excess of 60kms. I have checked the alignment but still the problem exists. Also my steering position is not centered and has a tilt to the left. I asked the alignment people to rectify this and they did, but after a few hundred kms its back to the same tilt position. I am confused and wondering what to do. Please help
	() Thanks

20th May 2010, 11:09	#87
Nikhilb2008 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,195 Thanked: 10,177 Times	Well, since the problem was solved after alignment, it means it is an alignment problem only. Do get it checked again. And the alignment shouldnt get spoilt after a few hundred kms. but it can happen ocassionally. The vibration seems to be due to bad balancing. Or excessive tyre pressures. Or uneven tyre wear. I would put it down to a combination of bad balancing and uneven tyre wear. I'm assuming you have uneven tyre wear because your alignment also seems a little off.
	() Thanks

3rd August 2010, 00:34	#89
drrusso Newbie Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 6 Thanked: 0 Times	@Nikhil I own a Fiat GP MJD which has clocked 12400 km. While crossing 6000 km i found the steering wheel to be tilted to the right. I did not give it a big issue, but then i find the front wheels wear more but evenly than the rear ones & i feel the mileage has been impaired by 1 km for every litre of diesel. Before 1st service my MJD gave me a 17.3 km/l ., but now it is 16.1 km/l in the city. On highways it was 22 km/l & now it is 18.4 km/l. I am in a dilemo what to do. Please advice. Thanx.
	() Thanks

5th August 2010, 13:28	#90
Nikhilb2008 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,195 Thanked: 10,177 Times	Alignment is wrong. when Alignment is wrong, even mileage can drop.
	() Thanks