[ssh1979]

General question really. I noticed that the guys at the wheel alignment garage first perform the alignment and then proceed to rotate. Is this fine?

I just "felt" that this is not right since alignment has to be the last step before the vehicle hits the road again?

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by ssh1979

General question really. I noticed that the guys at the wheel alignment garage first perform the alignment and then proceed to rotate. Is this fine?

I just "felt" that this is not right since alignment has to be the last step before the vehicle hits the road again?

It's a common misconception. But it doesnt matter. Rotating the wheels will have no effect on the alignment. Neither will a tyre change!

Most of the time, people do balancing/rotation first and then the alignment but there is no technical reason for that.

[ragsri]

Nikhil, I own a palio 1.6 sport Dec 2007 make. The original set of tyres where Goodyear and after 25K kms(it had some life into it) I changed to Yoko A drives and after 54 K the tyres have worn out again. About 6 months I had given my wheels for rim straightening/alignment/balancing. Now again it is off and wheel rim is bent bad. Can you pm me your contact details. I would like to have an inspection done at your shop.

[Thar4x4]

Dear Nikhil,

What a nice thread and information on wheel alignment, wish I could have seen this earlier.

I am doing regular service for my Zen Estilo from MASS and they check if the WA/WB is required or not every time. Lastly I was facing issues like vibration on above 80 Km/hr also it appeared as if left wheel was banging hard when going over speed breakers (speed 20/30 kms/hrs). Recorded this in last servicing but no solution or satisfactory answer so today went to a local WA/WB center and found that there was huge difference in Toe measures and which caused uneven wear out for tyres which are already done 30K kms.

Technician did a tyre rotation and said that 2 tyres have a out and need replacement. I asked him if wheel balancing is required and he said WB is not needed for tyres which are above 30K kms as rubber is hard and which will add no value.

So my questions are:
1. Is this true that WB will not add value?
2. What will be cause for left wheel banging hard, I guess suspension and going to check this with MASS?
3. Changing only 2 tyres is advisable or should I change all 5 after some time (he said 3 tyres can go 10K kms more)?

4. I am thinking on up sizing for better grip on high speed, what size and company is advisable , OE size is 145x75 R13?

I am attaching the latest print of WA.

Thanks,
Vishal.

[ajman28]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

It's a common misconception. But it doesnt matter. Rotating the wheels will have no effect on the alignment. Neither will a tyre change!

Most of the time, people do balancing/rotation first and then the alignment but there is no technical reason for that.

Are you sure about this? I agree with you on a purely theoretical point of view. But on the floor, I think there will be a considerable variation in the alignment if the balancing/rotation is done after the WA!

Originally Posted by Thar4x4

So my questions are:
1. Is this true that WB will not add value?

WB will definitely add value! Infact, WB has nothing to do with the age of the tyre. You have to balance your wheels everytime you change tyres for best results. The bouncy ride above 80kmh could be due to many reasons but one common reason is improper wheel balance.

[alias]

hi, i have a question regarding my getz, the car was running on Goodyear stock tube tires till a few weeks back,however since they had gone bald i took the opportunity to change the wheels as well with league alloys and 195/60-r 14 es 100s after getting the tires changed the car steering has tilted towards the right side now when the car is going straight, when i got the wheels and tires changed the guy who changed them told me i should do only front 2 wheels aligned and then i got the wheels aligned as well, but the issue stayed, i never had this issue earlier when before the Tyre( wheels ) got changed, any idea what may be causing the issue.

one more thing that i just remember, earlier before the getz i had a tcd baleno with same profile es 100s, the car did up to 200km/hr and the steering wheel remained stiff on those speeds , thats the reason i choose these tires, however the getz steering wheel wobbles after 100+km/hr , are these issues interlinked??? if not what can be the cause of this problem of steering wobbling after 100+kmph, a friend of mine suggested that the disks( brake disk) are the cause of this issue and that i need to get them buffed which i find had to believe. any ideas??

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by Thar4x4

So my questions are:
1. Is this true that WB will not add value?
2. What will be cause for left wheel banging hard, I guess suspension and going to check this with MASS?
3. Changing only 2 tyres is advisable or should I change all 5 after some time (he said 3 tyres can go 10K kms more)?

4. I am thinking on up sizing for better grip on high speed, what size and company is advisable , OE size is 145x75 R13?

Thanks,
Vishal.

WB will not make much of a difference with alignment but a badly balanced or unbalanced wheel can aggravate existing alignment problems. It can also cause misalignment faster than normal due to higher wear and tear.

Left wheel banging hard could be a suspension issue.

2 tyres changing is ok. Not a big deal, but ideally, 4 tyres is the best.

From 145/70-13 (not 75), you can upsize but wont find much of a difference. Very few upsize options as well.

Originally Posted by ajman28

Are you sure about this? I agree with you on a purely theoretical point of view. But on the floor, I think there will be a considerable variation in the alignment if the balancing/rotation is done after the WA!

Not true. The alignment is done only after loosening the tie rod end. Once the toe is set to the required specification, the tie rod is tightened again and the alignment will not change unless there is a very big hit to the suspension or normal wear and tear. During WB and rotation, no such major change is felt by the aligned suspension.

WB will definitely add value! Infact, WB has nothing to do with the age of the tyre. You have to balance your wheels everytime you change tyres for best results. The bouncy ride above 80kmh could be due to many reasons but one common reason is improper wheel balance.

It does have something to do with the age of the tyres. Not age per se but tyre wear. As the tyre wears, the point of imbalance changes and this is why balancing id required periodically to re-balance the tyre.

Originally Posted by alias

hi, i have a question regarding my getz, the car was running on Goodyear stock tube tires till a few weeks back,however since they had gone bald i took the opportunity to change the wheels as well with league alloys and 195/60-r 14 es 100s after getting the tires changed the car steering has tilted towards the right side now when the car is going straight, when i got the wheels and tires changed the guy who changed them told me i should do only front 2 wheels aligned and then i got the wheels aligned as well, but the issue stayed, i never had this issue earlier when before the Tyre( wheels ) got changed, any idea what may be causing the issue.

one more thing that i just remember, earlier before the getz i had a tcd baleno with same profile es 100s, the car did up to 200km/hr and the steering wheel remained stiff on those speeds , thats the reason i choose these tires, however the getz steering wheel wobbles after 100+km/hr , are these issues interlinked??? if not what can be the cause of this problem of steering wobbling after 100+kmph, a friend of mine suggested that the disks( brake disk) are the cause of this issue and that i need to get them buffed which i find had to believe. any ideas??

It sounds like an alignment problem. Go back to the alignment centre and tell them to fix the issue. steering Wobbling after 100kmph is a typical balancing problem. If there is a problem with the brake discs, you will find the steering wobbling only when you brake hard.

[ajman28]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Not true. The alignment is done only after loosening the tie rod end. Once the toe is set to the required specification, the tie rod is tightened again and the alignment will not change unless there is a very big hit to the suspension or normal wear and tear. During WB and rotation, no such major change is felt by the aligned suspension.

I agree to your point, theoretically. But on the ground, don't you notice a difference in alignment values (and sometimes very significant changes) when you do a WB after the WA? I have noticed this in many cases. I am not sure why it happens. It could be probably due to the change in the manner the clamps are fixed each time during the WA. But whatever the case, you do detect a change in the WA values when WB is done after WA.

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

It does have something to do with the age of the tyres. Not age per se but tyre wear. As the tyre wears, the point of imbalance changes and this is why balancing id required periodically to re-balance the tyre.

I totally agree with you. Tyres do need WB as they wear. I should have made my statement clearer. My bad :( What I meant to say was even brand new tyres require WB and in that context age is not a factor.

[alias]

It sounds like an alignment problem. Go back to the alignment centre and tell them to fix the issue. steering Wobbling after 100kmph is a typical balancing problem. If there is a problem with the brake discs, you will find the steering wobbling only when you brake hard.[/quote]


hi Nikhil,
thanks for the valuable advice, yes it was an issue with the alignment, got the alignment done again at Henur at a computerized alignment shop and the issue has got corrected completely.
thank you again.
regards,
alias

[tarunt]

Hello,

I have a question regarding wheel alignment weights. I have a 2012 Laura. Today when I was at the car accessories shop getting my sun film removed, i notice that a flat piece of what looked like rubber was sticking out of the alloy wheel. I pulled at it and it came off easily and I think it is a set of weights used in wheel alignment. Its divided into 3 parts (looks like 3 pieces of white chocolate) and has some numbers on it.
Now for the questions ..
1. Is it a weight used in alignment?
2. why did it come off ... the car is 2 months old ... is it normal?
3. what needs to be done now?
Any advice will be appreciated.

Tarun

[Nikhilb2008]

It looks like a stick on weight. It has come off because the adhesive has worn out. Probably because it wasnt stuck on properly in the first place or maybe it was an old, used weight which has been reused on your car to save money.

The wheel weight is used in wheel balancing and not alignment.

Get the wheels rebalanced. Otherwise, you might find undue vibrations cropping up in your car.

[skumare]

I recently got my Vista's wheels aligned, the service center corrected only the deviation in the bottom most pair of values that appear on the computer screen. They mentioned that they normally don't do the top 2 parameters unless there is a specific problem. Is this normal?

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by skumare

I recently got my Vista's wheels aligned, the service center corrected only the deviation in the bottom most pair of values that appear on the computer screen. They mentioned that they normally don't do the top 2 parameters unless there is a specific problem. Is this normal?

Very normal. Most cars have only adjustable TOE. Camber, Caster are not adjustable. And only Front Toe is adjustable(moslty).

[skumare]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Very normal. Most cars have only adjustable TOE. Camber, Caster are not adjustable. And only Front Toe is adjustable(moslty).

Thanks, I see that Camber and Caster are "red" on the screen, what are the implications if these are not corrected to zero/green?

[ajman28]

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

Very normal. Most cars have only adjustable TOE. Camber, Caster are not adjustable. And only Front Toe is adjustable(moslty).

I thought you could adjust the camber too in the Vista! Do you have a list of cars with adjustable toe & camber?

Originally Posted by skumare

Thanks, I see that Camber and Caster are "red" on the screen, what are the implications if these are not corrected to zero/green?

Please provide the values - both actual and recommended.