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Old 14th January 2023, 12:10   #76
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

I took my mind's way. Letting go that Octavia for these reasons

1. Its 2 year old demo car (even if it is less abused).
2. It's a sedan. It's a petrol. Not a practical and wise choice by any means for my use case.
3. It's a Skoda. I need a heavy pocket to take care of this machine.
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Old 14th January 2023, 19:19   #77
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Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv View Post
6. Not an enthusiast car in any sense. Even at speeds of 80-90, when I tried to manoeuvre, I can feel the fish tailing.
It has ESP/ESC - so you'll not be able to make it fishtail and lose control at that speeds on normal roads. It's just that the steering response is sharper than you expect a vehicle of its size, that is typical of a Scorpio.

Here is the NCAP video, watch till the very end, there is the video clip of the ESP test as well.

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Old 14th January 2023, 22:02   #78
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Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
It has ESP/ESC - so you'll not be able to make it fishtail and lose control at that speeds on normal roads. It's just that the steering response is sharper than you expect a vehicle of its size, that is typical of a Scorpio.

Here is the NCAP video, watch till the very end, there is the video clip of the ESP test as well.

https://Youtu.be/IKdpfkOQA84
You may be right since I am not used to BOF cars (except for the GL and GLS experience which is almost 13-14 years back) and probably my comparison is with the monocoques and sedans. However, probably because of this Scorpio N doesn't give me that confidence to do triple digit speeds out on the highways.

Last edited by Livnletcarsliv : 14th January 2023 at 22:17.
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Old 16th January 2023, 17:47   #79
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Progressive update 3.
Today, I did an extensive TD of the Tiguan.

Positive observations
1. It's an absolute driver's delight. However, Octavia is still the benchmark. Nothing beats that sedan dynamics.
2. Size-wise, it is sufficient enough for 5 adults. This is way spacious than an Octavia, especially at the back seats.
3. Handling is fantastic for a car of this size.
4. Being a CKD, the quality of materials used are top notch. Nothing better than this in terms of build quality, finesse, fit & finish.
5. It's a head turner for me in terms of looks. Looks are understated, simple and elegant. I liked it.
6. Boot space is sufficient for most of the cases.
7. DQ381 is way better in terms of reliability than a DQ200.

Negative observations
1. The suspension is way too hard for our roads. Even though I may be exaggerating, the ride quality difference is day & night compared to Harrier and Octavia.
2. This feels like it is more suitable for highways and good roads. The moment you get bad roads or even undulations and speed breakers for that matter, it is definitely felt inside. The ride becomes uncomfortable.
3. Feature list - even though this is not a negative since I am not a gizmo person, as per market standards it lacks many features for this price like ventilated seats, 360 camera, etc.
4. The turbo lag and the slow throttle response is very evident compared to the Octavia. Probably this is because Tiguan is taller and 200+ kgs heavier than Octavia.
5. Mileage. Being a 2L petrol DSG, I assume that the mileage will be in single digit in the city limits and around 12-14 on the highways.
6. The AC controls are not user friendly. It is definitely a bane to use, especially when driving.
7. Being a CKD, I understand that the cost of maintenance will be twice than that of Harrier. Even if I opt for the 4 + 2 years warranty and 4 years service package, I assume that I will still end up paying twice the cost.
8. Tiguan is definitely not worth 40L compared to the market standards. This is no Kodiaq with that DCC, 7 seats, features, and quality to command such a high premium.
9. The sports mode just like the Octavia is a joke. It only increases the rpm during gear change.

Overall this is typical European VW that is probably reluctantly trying to satisfy the Indian customers in the Indian conditions. It is still on my list, not a top contender though.

Last edited by Livnletcarsliv : 16th January 2023 at 17:50.
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Old 16th January 2023, 20:15   #80
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Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv View Post
9. The sports mode just like the Octavia is a joke. It only increases the rpm during gear change.
.
Did you check this extensively? On my Tiguan Allspace, the difference is obvious. When ever I feel the need for my car to be extra responsive (like on a single lane highway where you need to quickly overtake OR you are in a hurry to reach a place within the city traffic) I put it to sports mode and I can see it immediately dropping a gear and stay there for longer, which results in quicker accelerations.
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Old 16th January 2023, 20:34   #81
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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Did you check this extensively? On my Tiguan Allspace, the difference is obvious. When ever I feel the need for my car to be extra responsive (like on a single lane highway where you need to quickly overtake OR you are in a hurry to reach a place within the city traffic) I put it to sports mode and I can see it immediately dropping a gear and stay there for longer, which results in quicker accelerations.
Exactly thats what I mean. In normal mode the gear change is at the optimum rpm. Which means, we are not tapping full torque or power. In sports mode, the gear change is at a higher rpm. In sports mode, we get to use an increased rev range which increases the torque as well as power availability. This is normal in all cars (that have drive modes). In a 40L car, I expected a little more - change in steering and suspension dynamics. However, I guess the logic here is that Tiguan's suspension is already stiff enough that they (VW) don't want to further stiffen the suspension in sports mode to make the ride from bad to worse.
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Old 16th January 2023, 20:44   #82
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Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv View Post
In a 40L car, I expected a little more - change in steering and suspension dynamics. However, I guess the logic here is that Tiguan's suspension is already stiff enough that they (VW) don't want to further stiffen the suspension in sports mode to make the ride from bad to worse.
Steering certainly gets stiffer in sports mode. Throttle inputs also feel sharper. But changing the suspension dynamics would need extra hardware (like the DCC on Kodiaq).
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Old 16th January 2023, 21:56   #83
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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Steering certainly gets stiffer in sports mode. Throttle inputs also feel sharper. But changing the suspension dynamics would need extra hardware (like the DCC on Kodiaq).
But so uncomfortable and stiff suspension for Indian roads on a 40L car is definitely unacceptable. It is a deal breaker (for me atleast). Exactly DCC solves this. Of course, it will increase the cost by another 2-3 lakhs which is not worth it. Of course, another aspect is the audio experience, which again is average for a premium car. Well, the steering weighs up as the speeds increase. I am not sure about the throttle inputs though as I did not notice much.
Please let me know how do you manage this stiff suspension set-up?

Last edited by Livnletcarsliv : 16th January 2023 at 22:17.
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Old 16th January 2023, 22:54   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv View Post
Please let me know how do you manage this stiff suspension set-up?
I keep the tyre pressure couple of notches below the prescribed level which makes it liveable on bad roads (but never 'plush') but it kind of compensates on highway drives with a great ride quality. But at times it becomes irritating within city and I keep thinking about making the ride softer/plusher (downgrading to a smaller rim, changing to 'comfort' oriented tyres etc).
If the ride comfort is one of the top priority, you should probably skip the Tiguan.

Last edited by Guna : 16th January 2023 at 22:56.
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Old 17th January 2023, 09:25   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv View Post
But so uncomfortable and stiff suspension for Indian roads on a 40L car is definitely unacceptable. It is a deal breaker (for me atleast). Exactly DCC solves this. Of course, it will increase the cost by another 2-3 lakhs which is not worth it. Of course, another aspect is the audio experience, which again is average for a premium car. Well, the steering weighs up as the speeds increase. I am not sure about the throttle inputs though as I did not notice much.
The Kodiaq thread has owners mentioning that there isn't much perceived difference in ride quality between DCC's comfort/sport mode either, suspension wise.

The comfort mode doesn't convert Kodiaq into a plush CitroŽn C5, is one of the ways to interpret this.

The unfortunate reality is, no car is perfect in this 30-40L budget. Some buying criteria need to be prioritized over the others, and peace needs to be made with the universe.

Last edited by GoBlue : 17th January 2023 at 09:44.
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Old 17th January 2023, 13:53   #86
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Originally Posted by GoBlue View Post
The unfortunate reality is, no car is perfect in this 30-40L budget. Some buying criteria need to be prioritized over the others, and peace needs to be made with the universe.
That's the truth. There is no PERFECT car at any budget.

You prioritize based on your need. Some criteria/examples could be -

1) Do you really need a new car and are you READY to buy?
2) Price, FIX a budget range say Rs. X +/- 5 lakhs, otherwise it becomes a sliding scale)
3) Choice of powertrain i.e. engine/transmission/drive train, whether you need diesel, petrol, EV; automatic vs. manual, AWD etc.
4) Seating capacity 2,4,5,6,7 etc. and body shape, sedan vs. SUV etc.
5) Your MUST have features, pick a few and prioritize those. Could be 6 airbags, could be 5 star safety, could be premium music system, front/rear sensors etc.
6) What makes you (or your family) HAPPY that fits the above criteria.

This should lead you into a handful number of vehicles. Pick the one that makes the most sense. India is not an international developed market where you will have plethora of good reliable vehicles after selecting these.

I assumed a few and here are the results.

It seems to me XUV700 fits the bill, in your budget, reading all the comments, as it was identified early on by GTO and others.

Good luck and happy motoring.
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Old 17th January 2023, 16:16   #87
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv View Post
Not considered - Citroen C5 (IMO scores bad in terms of looks, rear seat, ASS network, cost, value), Hector (IMO scores bad in terms of brand, looks, center console, etc), Octavia (not a sedan person). Is there anything that I missed to consider?
If you can live with not having the latest ignore all the anti FWD rant and checkout the outgoing X1. Quick steering, fuel efficient yet quick diesel motor, proven Aisin gearbox, reliable (even better at the end of its lifecycle) and good ground clearance! If you want to keep the purchase in the 40L territory the Tucson loses out on the presence (subjective) but scores high on all other aspects.

Last edited by manson : 17th January 2023 at 16:32.
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Old 17th January 2023, 22:03   #88
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re: Sold my lemon Tata Harrier | What car next? EDIT: Bought Hyundai Tucson

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBlue View Post
The Kodiaq thread has owners mentioning that there isn't much perceived difference in ride quality between DCC's comfort/sport mode either, suspension wise.

The comfort mode doesn't convert Kodiaq into a plush CitroŽn C5, is one of the ways to interpret this.

The unfortunate reality is, no car is perfect in this 30-40L budget. Some buying criteria need to be prioritized over the others, and peace needs to be made with the universe.
That's not a good news with respect to the DCC. Then I guess it is exaggerated. Regarding the comfort, I am definitely not expecting C5 level, but atleast C5 minus 1 or 2 levels. On a rating of 1-5, if C5 scores 5, Harrier scores 3.5-4, Tiguan scores 2.

With respect to the options available in the market, I am slowly trying to handshake with the reality by compromising here and there. Will finalise the list once I take the TD of all the options available/considered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inwester View Post
1) Do you really need a new car and are you READY to buy?
2) Price, FIX a budget range say Rs. X +/- 5 lakhs, otherwise it becomes a sliding scale)
3) Choice of powertrain i.e. engine/transmission/drive train, whether you need diesel, petrol, EV; automatic vs. manual, AWD etc.
4) Seating capacity 2,4,5,6,7 etc. and body shape, sedan vs. SUV etc.
5) Your MUST have features, pick a few and prioritize those. Could be 6 airbags, could be 5 star safety, could be premium music system, front/rear sensors etc.
6) What makes you (or your family) HAPPY that fits the above criteria.

This should lead you into a handful number of vehicles. Pick the one that makes the most sense. India is not an international developed market where you will have plethora of good reliable vehicles after selecting these.

I assumed a few and here are the results.

It seems to me XUV700 fits the bill, in your budget, reading all the comments, as it was identified early on by GTO and others.

Good luck and happy motoring.
Appreciate your effort and recommendations. Yes, I am already in the process of evaluation of all the options that is mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manson View Post
If you can live with not having the latest ignore all the anti FWD rant and checkout the outgoing X1. Quick steering, fuel efficient yet quick diesel motor, proven Aisin gearbox, reliable (even better at the end of its lifecycle) and good ground clearance!
Yes, I will be doing a X1 TD shortly - most likely this week. However, there are 2 things that I want to know
1. Given that the new X1 is around the corner, and compared to market standards (Tiguan, Tuscon, 700, Kodiaq, Harrier, etc), how is the outgoing X1 perceived? Based on the discounts available, what is a fair price for X1 20d (55L ONR - carwale)?
2. Am I right to assume that the average maintenance cost per year is around 1.5lakh?

Last edited by Livnletcarsliv : 17th January 2023 at 22:05.
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Old 17th January 2023, 22:50   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBlue View Post
The Kodiaq thread has owners mentioning that there isn't much perceived difference in ride quality between DCC's comfort/sport mode either, suspension wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv View Post
That's not a good news with respect to the DCC. Then I guess it is exaggerated.
Probably it is because they can only change the dampening while the springs remain the same. But the default suspension which comes on the lower trims (without DCC) itself is supposed to be comfortable enough (downside would be more body-roll)
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Old 18th January 2023, 19:45   #90
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Progressive update 4.

I did an extensive TD of the Tucson 2WD Diesel AT and here are my observations.

Positive
1. It is almost as good to drive as a Tiguan. In fact, I was so surprised that a Hyundai can deliver so much, especially on the driving dynamics part. Of course, Tiguan is the SUV benchmark here upto 50L in terms of handling.
2. Loaded to gills with all the features and gizmos. No constraints on space either.
3. Also comes with the ADAS.
4. The quality is top notch being a CKD. The fit and finish is excellent.
5. Being a Hyundai, reliability is a given.
6. The car won't feel dated for at least the next 5-7 years. Even longer than that as well.
7. NVH levels are good. May not be the best but the nothing to complain for those in the front seats. I expect better NVH levels for such an expensive Hyundai.
8. Audio experience is better than Tiguan, Octavia, Scorpio N. I felt Harrier experience was marginally better and Hector experience was way better.

Negatives
1. The ride, especially at the rear, felt a bit hard (not as bad as a Tiguan though). I was also able to hear the tyre noise at the rear. Being a CKD Hyundai and a global model, I kind of doubt the points 1 & 2. Generally the NVH and ride is good in Hyundai's. I checked the tyre pressure (through the on-board TPMS) as well. Did not notice any deviation. Still wondering why and what happened.
2. It is significantly expensive as a package. Yes, one of the main reasons is it comes as a CKD. Cheaper by 5L would have made this an excellent package.
3. The interior trim colour is biege which is pain to keep it fresh and clean. At 40L, Hyundai should have given an interior dark colour trim option.
4. Looks are subjective. However, it is not my kind.
5. Paddle shifters are a miss. Given this price, that would be nice to have.
6. While Seltos comes with a rear blinds, I don't understand why Hyundai skipped this in a Tuscon. Not a deal breaker though.
7. Spares - cost and availability. Even in this forum there are quite a number of concerns/complaints about the delay in spares availability and also the cost of service.

Overall, I like the most of it. While I am trying hard to compromise on the looks (both interior and exterior), my biggest concern is the snob value - Is it worth spending 42L for a 5 seater Hyundai while I get => 70%-80% of Tucson (Harrier, Hector, 700) for 12-15L cheaper?. I feel that 700, Hector and the facelifted Harrier to be 100% value for money than this Tucson. Of course, reliability and ASS experience are the biggest exceptions in favour of Hyundai though (Hector is again a no-nonsense car with probably a better ASS experience than Hyundai). I am definitely not convinced with the pricing of Tucson.

Last edited by Livnletcarsliv : 18th January 2023 at 19:56.
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