[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by star_aqua

he he no privacy can't roll up the windows and lock the doors.

Ahhh like that, so we married men need not worry about your comment

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

mmmm... from what I hear, a certain Blue 540 has not been drive for a long time, nor washed or greased . I wonder what would be it's state now.

Mr Aqua please arrange to deliver the keys to me asap! 540 will be taken care in TOTALITY

[star_aqua]

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

mmmm... from what I hear, a certain Blue 540 has not been drive for a long time, nor washed or greased . I wonder what would be it's state now.

i heard it the other way. hmmm.. will look into this matter seriously.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Mr Aqua please arrange to deliver the keys to me asap! 540 will be taken care in TOTALITY

Dear Jaggu 540 has keyless entry. and also keyless start and stop feature in it. Do you still need a key?

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by star_aqua

Dear Jaggu 540 has keyless entry. and also keyless start and stop feature in it. Do you still need a key?

PM me the address i shall do the needful.

But seriously, apart from the open nature what are the issues with CJ according to you?

[docfreak]

after reading the last few posts i can totally understand what u feel , the points you have listed out are exactly what i did, actually harjeev too, we both have been speaking a lot over the same topic.

what i came to was that a jeep will remain a jeep, nothing relaces it, reliability and fe are the two main concerns, obviously both linked to the over all cost of the ownership experience. so what i have done is that , give up the idea of selling itcompletely, believe in the commintment towards ur jeep, rectify the major issues , do all possible things to improve the f/e, and finally the only two components that can go wrong if ur jeep is well maintained are the electricals and the fuel line, so learn all about them and keep a fuel pump, carb , distributor and ignition coil in addition to the usual spares. then take it out and be assured that it would not stall , maybe limp at the most .

each time i thought of selling my 3b i just had a drive in it, realized each time that nothing comes close. closest was gypsy but then fe is almost same and u can build in the reliabilty and also the driving fun of the jeep can never be compared to the gypsy.

[star_aqua]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

PM me the address i shall do the needful.

Lol, even i don't know the exact address where it is now.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

But seriously, apart from the open nature what are the issues with CJ according to you?

looks: SWB looks good and attracts the crowd. a MWB sometimes looks like rural taxi. a LWB no doubt.
dust: drive it for 10km inside city, you will loose the feel of being fresh. it is similar to riding a bike without a helmet.
but you will really enjoy it while driving and until you park it in unknown place. try parking it near russel market and go for shopping . no i am not saying it wil not be there when you come back, but your concentration will be on your jeep allways.

[Jaggu]

ahhh am relieved to a great extent bike without helmet is very much doable, if its upto me.

[gbanavar]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

ahhh am relieved to a great extent bike without helmet is very much doable, if its upto me.

I agree with you, Jaggu. I love the feeling of the open ride - it can be a pain in city traffic, but still that's what I like about the 3B. In fact that is also the reason I have a half top and do not want to cover the sides up. The other obvious problem is it gets soo dusty inside even if left out for a day.

Originally Posted by docfreak

after reading the last few posts i can totally understand what u feel , the points you have listed out are exactly what i did, actually harjeev too, we both have been speaking a lot over the same topic.

what i came to was that a jeep will remain a jeep, nothing relaces it, reliability and fe are the two main concerns, obviously both linked to the over all cost of the ownership experience. so what i have done is that , give up the idea of selling itcompletely, believe in the commintment towards ur jeep, rectify the major issues , do all possible things to improve the f/e, and finally the only two components that can go wrong if ur jeep is well maintained are the electricals and the fuel line, so learn all about them and keep a fuel pump, carb , distributor and ignition coil in addition to the usual spares. then take it out and be assured that it would not stall , maybe limp at the most .

each time i thought of selling my 3b i just had a drive in it, realized each time that nothing comes close. closest was gypsy but then fe is almost same and u can build in the reliabilty and also the driving fun of the jeep can never be compared to the gypsy.

docfreak,

Don't get me wrong, I love the CJ3b. I also feel that it is also the most nimble of Jeeps and you can't beat the capabilities of the SWB. But, it is not serving my purpose right now since it has spent more time in the mechanic shop than on the road.

But, as Jaggu said it could get better since I have spent enough time fixing all the major issues and now it is a matter of letting it settle down.

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

if you emotionally feel & believe that it is best to sell it, then sell it and move on. At the end of the day, OTR is an emotional activity and best done with a vehicle that you feel are comfortable with.

I think that one learns from the experience and can use that in the next build -- you yourself mention this.

I would suggest that you go for a Gypsy (used or new, your choice). Super reliable, cost effective & a super performer even in stock form

I agree with you completely. Maybe it was a letdown that I got stuck the first couple of times in my Jeep. I need something with enough reliability that I can confidently take anywhere without fear of breakdowns and is available whenever I need it. I don't mind spending time on it, as long as I get the results.

I also liked the build experience, even through I felt like strangling my mechanic, the tinkerer and painter every other day.

I might get to try out a 550 that may be coming up for sale in the next week or so. I want to try it out see how it "feels". I like the Gypsy because of the reasons you mention and its agility.

How does the wheel base of the Gypsy compare to that of a 3B and 550?

[Jaggu]

If its reliability i would still go with Gypsy, nothing comes close.

[harjeev]

Hey ganesh
Buddy its been a long time since we spoke last but anyways its never too late. The thought process that you are passing and going though currently in your mind is exactly what I was going through a couple of months back. Having my hands full with 3 vehicles (MM550, 2 CJ3B's LHD & RHD) and still no vehicle, in which I was comfortable to cruise on the highways.
Please do not misunderstand me, I really liked my MM550. It was a wonderful vehicle, quite reliable, decent FE but being the old generation of diesels it used to take a long time in coming to the comfortable cruising speeds of 80 km/hr, whereas for OTR's it was great. Additionally another thing I was not comfortable with in the MM550 was the in-cabin engine noise in comparison to the Gypsy. Taking to the fellow companions while driving was a chore. So cut the long story short with a heavy heart I sold off the MM550 and bought the gypsy.
Few of the points which compelled or one could say pushed me over the edge for choosing the gypsy were
(1) the wide availability of the spares and service network
(2) cheap to maintain
(3) high speed highway cruise-ability
(4) sometime in future if I wanted to participate in the desert storm or raid I wanted a vehicle which would be up to the task
(5) Delhi registration.
So these are some of the things that made me choose the gypsy.

Further I would have never sold the MM550, but the money quotient was an issue. No way I could afford to keep 4 off-roaders not to mention other vehicles in my stable. Parking is a big issue in Delhi and maintaining such fleet required a lot of time. Money goes without saying.


Further what I am thinking now is maybe, MAYBE ill let my RHD CJ3B go and then keep only the LHD CJ3B and the Gypsy. The reason being that technically there's no difference between the LHD & RHD so there's no point keeping both and the LHD not being driven and just rotting away uncared for. So if I sell my RHD I can restore the LHD and then enjoy it in totality
Just a thought!!!
What say everyone???


PS: What I have posted above are just my thought and no way a verdict on whether the Gypsy or the CJ3B or the MM550 is better or worse. These are just my thought and the way I feel about things and this is what the forum all about, expressing one's thought freely over the WWW.
I in no way mean or meant to hurt anyones thoughts or feeling!!!
Cheers

[starter]

Originally Posted by gbanavar

Hi Deepak,

I share your sentiments, but, I have spent a LOT of time & money on my Jeep. Quite honestly, I can have 2 for the price of one. I am sure I will miss it, but don't you think there is a price point to consider that will offset the effort.

Dear Ganesh,
After investing so much time and money, hearing that you are giving away, pains me. But, i understand that you are doing it for a reason.
Definitely, this experience of building him up is priceless.
So, lets go find a nice Gypsy You could drive mine and see if you like it. If yes, then you could either buy a brand new one or we could try finding a well maintained one.
Cheers,
Deepak

[Jaggu]

Ganesh if you are buying and if i understand correct your requirements, i would only suggest a spanking new gypsy. Make the payment asap if you dont have registration options outside BLR.

[gbanavar]

@Harjeev: Hi, it has been a while since we spoke.. I have been busy re-furbing my house for a few months, and my Jeep restoration process helped quite a bit in dealing with the contractors

You are the best person to provide input; since you owner all three vehicles in question - CJ3B, MM550 & Gypsy. So, I definitely value your inputs, and I know you don't want to hurt anyones feelings with your thoughts. As you said, no one should take offense since you are trying to help based on hard experience.

I understand your situation completely. I am in the same boat and in my case want one vehicle that meets 90% of my needs - and still provides the built, not bought satisfaction. I agree with what you are trying to do - and, it would seem like a waste to keep multiple vehicles that you cannot use regularly, while others are desperately trying to find good vehicles. Another factor is to have cash flow which is very difficult if not impossible when you are doing up many vehicles. Heck, I have trouble explaining why I keep spending on my Jeep and Bullet all the time!! I can imagine your plight having 4 off-roaders at home!

So, everyone is leaning towards a Gypsy eh? Well, let me find a "bhakra" for my Jeep first then I will seriously get into some trials of Gypsy and 550.

Originally Posted by starter

Dear Ganesh,
After investing so much time and money, hearing that you are giving away, pains me.

So, lets go find a nice Gypsy You could drive mine and see if you like it. Deepak

It pains me more that I am not able to use it everyday, lest I break something else that needs fixing! That is the reality.

I will take up on your offer to ride your Gypsy and try it out, thanks!!

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Ganesh if you are buying and if i understand correct your requirements, i would only suggest a spanking new gypsy. Make the payment asap if you dont have registration options outside BLR.

Jaggu & Gypsy Boy,
I really appreciate all your inputs, but, let me ask you this - will a brand new Gypsy not be a pain in the you know what, when you have to be worried about scratching it up on OTRs, one, and two, you will have to keep it in stock condition since you will not have the heart to do cut & weld mods on a brand new vehicle?

I would rather get a used one (knowing that it is getting more and more difficult to find them) with a good heart (I know there are a lot of other threads going about what to look for in a used Gypsy) and then be able to mold it to your liking?? Yes, I am looking for better reliability, but down want to loose out on performance mods!

[Kandisa]

Hi Ganesh,
I have been a silent observer of your thread and really liked the way you have attempted to something different to your 3b.
IMHO the kind of purpose you intend to use your vehicle should be the primary criterion for choosing the vehicle and the subsequent restoration & modification. There can be various categories e.g. for exclusive off-roading/ Primarily off-roading along with some on-road drive/ expedition type of trips which doesn't involve much of rigorous off-roading but demands a reliable 4x4 vehicle and not doable in cars.

Deciding this is important, particularly for jeep-beginners like us who can't afford to run around all the time for maintenance of the vehicles and don't have much of technical knowledge to do things on our own. I could have easily gone for a 3b and it would have cost me lesser than what i 've spent on the 440, but just keeping the purpose in mind i didn't do that.

Assuming you now want a reliable 4x4 which can perform without much fuss, offcourse a bran new gypsy is the best choice. Having said that, its also not a bad idea to go for a good condition 540/550 type of jeep and modifying it properly for once to suit your need. Offcourse it depends on whether you want a diesel vehicle after driving a 3b!
These are just some of my thoughts, though i am just a novice enjoying jeeping through some offbeat trips here and there and not an elite offroader who tests his vehicle in the OTR's through the toughest entry/exit point

[gbanavar]

Originally Posted by Kandisa

Hi Ganesh,
I have been a silent observer of your thread and really liked the way you have attempted to something different to your 3b.
IMHO the kind of purpose you intend to use your vehicle should be the primary criterion for choosing the vehicle and the subsequent restoration & modification.

Offcourse it depends on whether you want a diesel vehicle after driving a 3b!

Hi Kandisa,

You got it, I wanted to build something different than the cliched "army jeep". In fact I was going through some old files and ran into these images of a $60K US Jeep, which I wanted to model mine after. I think I got pretty close to it looks wise and cost wise (just kidding).

I agree with you about deciding the purpose and requirements - but, what happens when some requirements change over a period of time? As an example, let's say I am very enthu about having a completely dedicated off-roader, but due to constraints I am not able to go off-roading all that frequently. You have to re-evaluate requirements every now and then and decide it it worthwhile to change.

Now, the CJ3Bs are very valuable as a legend and have high vintage value, but I can't just keep it at home and not use it on an OTR. I am not talking about cosmetic damage, but I don't want to be in a situation where I am worried about damaging hard to get parts and hold back. On the last OTR, I really wanted to get into the water, but I was afraid that the engine may shut off because of my carb/starter issues and did not want to cause unnecessary damage to my vehicle.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by gbanavar

Jaggu & Gypsy Boy,
I really appreciate all your inputs, but, let me ask you this - will a brand new Gypsy not be a pain in the you know what,

I dont agree, the peace of mind factor itself will outweigh the whole thing. You dont really need to do anything if you want to do regular offroad ie unless you plan to do extreme trails. Did you see starter in the annual OTR, that was his first time off road, but he and his vehicle came out with almost no damage. Which includes scratches, a good company solid color like red and white itself is a big insurance. You get EMI options also with brand new purchase.

Originally Posted by gbanavar

I would rather get a used one (knowing that it is getting more and more difficult to find them) with a good heart (I know there are a lot of other threads going about what to look for in a used Gypsy) and then be able to mold it to your liking?? Yes, I am looking for better reliability, but down want to loose out on performance mods!

Its close to impossible to find a good vehicle, trust me i tried for 1 month and.... well thats a story which i will update soon.

Now the above Quote is confusing for me, what exactly do you want the vehicle for?

a) Daily use + Offroad trips + Bullet proof reliability for next few years atleast?

OR

b) Extreme trails + occasional use + occasional visit to workshops?

Another interesting theory which i believe in, modifications rarely ends, if they end you get bored and sell the vehicle. Its similar to jeeps are not bought, they are built and i have gone through one such circus, and trust me you will not feel it happening to you

What i would suggest is:

Day 1) Gyspsy soft toppy + Decent radials 6.25 Lakhs. You can actually swap the tyre and alloy from CJ and save and make it 5.85 L

Monsoon time 2) Crawlers + Lockers 75k?

1.5 year to 2 years later 3) Chop off that darn rear overhang 15k?

Plan the finance and just proceed! and call me before you give that gypsy OE wheels off he he