Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

aseem · 11th August 2005, 19:22

But do the capacitors have to be from a good company? Will buying a local capacitor as opposed to the JBL capacitor effect the sound? I am sure I can do this.... However I guess I will meet you when you are in Delhi so that can have the benefit of your expertise. Thanks for this thread Sam, you the man with a magical VAN.

navin · 11th August 2005, 19:30

tri bridge mode...yeah now i remember it. all this really calls for is an amp that can dump a lof of current. aint that difficult to design or build. BTW anyone build a car amp with IGBTs? Last one I did was still FET. now however my I am thinking of building an EL84 power amp for my ipod. cool heh Sam?

Vivek, are we the last of the DIYers in India? Most of my friends from that era have crossed over to the dark side.

navin · 11th August 2005, 19:46

you can a good non polarised 2.2uf/100V cap from CTR they are yellow in colour.

Sam you fogot to mention that the resistor should be between the amp and the cap and not between the cap and the tweeter. doing the later will change effective impedance that C "sees".

Aseem, I think I said this before JBL tends to design their stuff to be bright. It is their traditional audience. Besides the way JBL do it also protects the tweeter.

Q: What are the orignal values of the cap and inductor on the XO? I hope it is a 2nd order XO atleast?

Another way to do this might be to reduce the value of L. This will reduce the Q of the crossover making the slope less steep but will also reduce the brightness. Reducing the C as Sam suggested will make a bigger difference as it changes the XO freq. so the tweeter is actually being XOed earlier say 8K instead of say 5K. if you find this to be too much play around with values between 2.2 and 3.7uf. BTW 3.7uf is an odd value. standard values are 1, 2.2, 3.9, 4.7, 6.8, and 10.

So what I am saying in very simple terms is the C of the tweeter XO sort of determines when the XO starts taking effect and the L determines the slope and the ratio of L and C determines the Q. This is a very simple explanation. As Vivek will confirm things can become a lot more complex if one really wants to get their hands dirty.

nilesh111 · 11th August 2005, 22:31

Hi Navin,

I gotta soundstream speakers also...2 avoid the parcel tray from vibrating i avoided using the original tray that maruti provides...rather i used a wooden tray from the local market...cost me around 650....it fits in perfectly....Alo i have connected 6 speakers.....the doors are in the front 2 channel and the rear in the next 2 channel...Also i have tweaked the soundstream amp in such a way that it does not put load on it...I have put it on LPf setting...believe me this system rocks,,

aseem · 11th August 2005, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by nilesh111

Hi Navin,

I gotta soundstream speakers also...2 avoid the parcel tray from vibrating i avoided using the original tray that maruti provides...rather i used a wooden tray from the local market...cost me around 650....it fits in perfectly....Alo i have connected 6 speakers.....the doors are in the front 2 channel and the rear in the next 2 channel...Also i have tweaked the soundstream amp in such a way that it does not put load on it...I have put it on LPf setting...believe me this system rocks,,

How much did the soundstream amplifier cost you?

navin · 11th August 2005, 23:33

nilesh, can the hatch lift the wooden tray? what i mean is when you open the hatch does the wooden tray go up as well?

navin · 12th August 2005, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

Navin yaar, see the price of this amplifier. They used to not build amplifiers at this price earlier.

True, if my memory serves me right the power supply of my 35x4 FET amp alone cost me about $150 but that was in 1987.

GTO · 12th August 2005, 10:19

@ Sam and Navin,

Heres a question : What would be the best upgrade in speakers for my C220 CDI, keeping the original look intact? I dont want to change the headunit since it will well integrated with the dash and has steering controls.

Also, my C180 had a rectangular subwoofer at the rear but - surprisingly - the C220 does not. Is there any manufacturer which makes these specifically for the C220 keeping a stock kinda fitment in mind?

Thanks much in advance

GTO

Sam Kapasi · 12th August 2005, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

tri bridge mode...yeah now i remember it. all this really calls for is an amp that can dump a lof of current. aint that difficult to design or build. BTW anyone build a car amp with IGBTs? Last one I did was still FET. now however my I am thinking of building an EL84 power amp for my ipod. cool heh Sam?

Vivek, are we the last of the DIYers in India? Most of my friends from that era have crossed over to the dark side.

Tri-Bridge mode... I used to use an old Kenwood 644 in the old days like that. I had put a Bolton 12" woofer in my Maruti Van... lol with a passive crossover for the woofer.
An EL84 power amp for the i-pod.... I wish i had the time to do something like that. Honestly I'm just totally fed up of flying about from One place to another.
Navin.... have fun on holiday man... honestly I hope you have a wonderful time.

Sam Kapasi · 12th August 2005, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

@ Sam and Navin,

Heres a question : What would be the best upgrade in speakers for my C220 CDI, keeping the original look intact? I dont want to change the headunit since it will well integrated with the dash and has steering controls.

Also, my C180 had a rectangular subwoofer at the rear but - surprisingly - the C220 does not. Is there any manufacturer which makes these specifically for the C220 keeping a stock kinda fitment in mind?

Thanks much in advance

GTO

Hey GTO!
To the best of my knowledge, the 220 accomodates 6" circular speakers in the front and rear. Obviously the best thing would be to upgrade to components. However it may get a little sticky mounting the tweeters up front.
The C180 rectangular sub is endemic to MB. Not available seperately. However I'll look around, sorry wasnt much help.

Sahil · 12th August 2005, 12:48

This is news to me ....... i havent come across any sub woofer in my C180 till date........i wonder where its tucked away.....but i love effect from that system, the bass is presice and moves evenly through the cabin, its soft but still powerfull. I wonder how they manage to get such good effects out of the speakers ... i have a woofer in my accord with amp and pioneer speakers but the bass is just hard nothing like the mercedes effect....the accord system can be played much louder but the MB one sounds best at moderatly high voulmes.

GTO · 12th August 2005, 12:55

Thanks Sam. Can you forward me the details of the best equipped JBL outlet in Mumbai that I could visit with my car?

Sahil, there is one rectangular subwoofer on the rear shelf at the left. There is a slot for a second (to the best of my knowledge), but it is empty. Good news! The C220 has room for two subs at the rear.

GTO

pranil · 12th August 2005, 13:55

Dear Sam,

Read in AUG OD issue that JBL( Sahil International) has tied up with Hyundai to offer JBL equipment as post purchase fitmment in all Hyundai show rooms.

The staff will be trained to provide Hyundai specific advise

Wonder when this will go through. I am geting my Getz delivered in Sept 15 through Sharayu Hyundai Navi Mumbai. Any idea where I can get actual demo in Navi Mumbai.

amitoj · 12th August 2005, 14:27

Hi Sam, Navin and friends!!!

This is another "what to do?" query.

I have the following in my zen:
A Kenwood KRC-553 stereo
A 10 CD changer (kenwood, of course)
2 Rear pioneer speakers, 6 x 9 400w coax 5 way. these are on an mdf tray.
2 busted front door speakers, clarion 100w multi-axial 3 way

I need to replace the front door speakers as they have started rattling. I mean the bass on them is totally "fataa hua". So wot should i go for? Should i get a basic amp as well? how much will it all cost?

I normally listen to classic rock, metal, bhangra, modern rock and some jazz as well. Basically, bass n treble both are important for me.

Thanks
Amitoj
PS: Sorry if i am making you repeat yourself.

Vivekphadnis · 12th August 2005, 23:42

Quote:

tri bridge mode...yeah now i remember it. all this really calls for is an amp that can dump a lof of current. aint that difficult to design or build. BTW anyone build a car amp with IGBTs? Last one I did was still FET. now however my I am thinking of building an EL84 power amp for my ipod. cool heh Sam?

Vivek, are we the last of the DIYers in India? Most of my friends from that era have crossed over to the dark side.

I was not aware that we could get IGBTs in India.
iPod with EL84s. Hmm. Interesting.
I am still finding the proper circuit for my DIY 4channel car amp and yes, DIY seems to be DYIng.

11th August 2005, 19:22	#421
aseem Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 1,730 Thanked: 443 Times	But do the capacitors have to be from a good company? Will buying a local capacitor as opposed to the JBL capacitor effect the sound? I am sure I can do this.... However I guess I will meet you when you are in Delhi so that can have the benefit of your expertise. Thanks for this thread Sam, you the man with a magical VAN.
	() Thanks

11th August 2005, 19:30	#422
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,413 Thanked: 9,960 Times	tri bridge mode...yeah now i remember it. all this really calls for is an amp that can dump a lof of current. aint that difficult to design or build. BTW anyone build a car amp with IGBTs? Last one I did was still FET. now however my I am thinking of building an EL84 power amp for my ipod. cool heh Sam? Vivek, are we the last of the DIYers in India? Most of my friends from that era have crossed over to the dark side.
	() Thanks

11th August 2005, 19:46	#423
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,413 Thanked: 9,960 Times	you can a good non polarised 2.2uf/100V cap from CTR they are yellow in colour. Sam you fogot to mention that the resistor should be between the amp and the cap and not between the cap and the tweeter. doing the later will change effective impedance that C "sees". Aseem, I think I said this before JBL tends to design their stuff to be bright. It is their traditional audience. Besides the way JBL do it also protects the tweeter. Q: What are the orignal values of the cap and inductor on the XO? I hope it is a 2nd order XO atleast? Another way to do this might be to reduce the value of L. This will reduce the Q of the crossover making the slope less steep but will also reduce the brightness. Reducing the C as Sam suggested will make a bigger difference as it changes the XO freq. so the tweeter is actually being XOed earlier say 8K instead of say 5K. if you find this to be too much play around with values between 2.2 and 3.7uf. BTW 3.7uf is an odd value. standard values are 1, 2.2, 3.9, 4.7, 6.8, and 10. So what I am saying in very simple terms is the C of the tweeter XO sort of determines when the XO starts taking effect and the L determines the slope and the ratio of L and C determines the Q. This is a very simple explanation. As Vivek will confirm things can become a lot more complex if one really wants to get their hands dirty.
	() Thanks

11th August 2005, 22:31	#424
nilesh111 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dahanu Posts: 23 Thanked: 3 Times	Hi Navin, I gotta soundstream speakers also...2 avoid the parcel tray from vibrating i avoided using the original tray that maruti provides...rather i used a wooden tray from the local market...cost me around 650....it fits in perfectly....Alo i have connected 6 speakers.....the doors are in the front 2 channel and the rear in the next 2 channel...Also i have tweaked the soundstream amp in such a way that it does not put load on it...I have put it on LPf setting...believe me this system rocks,,
	() Thanks

11th August 2005, 23:33	#426
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,413 Thanked: 9,960 Times	nilesh, can the hatch lift the wooden tray? what i mean is when you open the hatch does the wooden tray go up as well?
	() Thanks

12th August 2005, 10:19	#428
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 71,916 Thanked: 322,072 Times View My Garage	@ Sam and Navin, Heres a question : What would be the best upgrade in speakers for my C220 CDI, keeping the original look intact? I dont want to change the headunit since it will well integrated with the dash and has steering controls. Also, my C180 had a rectangular subwoofer at the rear but - surprisingly - the C220 does not. Is there any manufacturer which makes these specifically for the C220 keeping a stock kinda fitment in mind? Thanks much in advance GTO
	() Thanks

12th August 2005, 12:48	#431
Sahil Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 6,354 Thanked: 8,002 Times	This is news to me ....... i havent come across any sub woofer in my C180 till date........i wonder where its tucked away.....but i love effect from that system, the bass is presice and moves evenly through the cabin, its soft but still powerfull. I wonder how they manage to get such good effects out of the speakers ... i have a woofer in my accord with amp and pioneer speakers but the bass is just hard nothing like the mercedes effect....the accord system can be played much louder but the MB one sounds best at moderatly high voulmes.
	() Thanks

12th August 2005, 12:55	#432
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 71,916 Thanked: 322,072 Times View My Garage	Thanks Sam. Can you forward me the details of the best equipped JBL outlet in Mumbai that I could visit with my car? Sahil, there is one rectangular subwoofer on the rear shelf at the left. There is a slot for a second (to the best of my knowledge), but it is empty. Good news! The C220 has room for two subs at the rear. GTO
	() Thanks

12th August 2005, 13:55	#433
pranil BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Navi Mumbai Posts: 153 Thanked: 3 Times	Dear Sam, Read in AUG OD issue that JBL( Sahil International) has tied up with Hyundai to offer JBL equipment as post purchase fitmment in all Hyundai show rooms. The staff will be trained to provide Hyundai specific advise Wonder when this will go through. I am geting my Getz delivered in Sept 15 through Sharayu Hyundai Navi Mumbai. Any idea where I can get actual demo in Navi Mumbai.
	() Thanks

12th August 2005, 14:27	#434
amitoj Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Windham, NH USA Posts: 3,406 Thanked: 3,502 Times View My Garage	Hi Sam, Navin and friends!!! This is another "what to do?" query. I have the following in my zen: A Kenwood KRC-553 stereo A 10 CD changer (kenwood, of course) 2 Rear pioneer speakers, 6 x 9 400w coax 5 way. these are on an mdf tray. 2 busted front door speakers, clarion 100w multi-axial 3 way I need to replace the front door speakers as they have started rattling. I mean the bass on them is totally "fataa hua". So wot should i go for? Should i get a basic amp as well? how much will it all cost? I normally listen to classic rock, metal, bhangra, modern rock and some jazz as well. Basically, bass n treble both are important for me. Thanks Amitoj PS: Sorry if i am making you repeat yourself.
	() Thanks