[Contrapunto]

Originally Posted by KeepItSimple

Mahindra has a good product with the update of the xuv 400.
Some concerns for a purchase decision are related to the Nmc battery pack.
What are the risks to users for a thermal runaway in a hot country like India?
What about an unfortunate collision?
The resale of the car after 5 or 10 or 15 years are likely very poor as the entire market is shifting to Lfp battery packs including mahindra.
Are there any other electric vehicles in India using the Nmc battery pack?
Request some thoughts and experience from members.

Thermal runway for NMC is indeed a concern. Most manufacturers are skirting around this topic. However, I expect NMC chemistry to continue for a long time still while LFP slowly builds up. Among the mainstream models, MG ZS EV, Huundai Kona still uses NMC cells. Tata Motors (at least for the Xenon) has moved on to LFP cells which they now manufacture in India (under license from BYD AFAIK).

XUV400 NMC cells (to my knowledge) are from LG Chem which has been at the center of thermal issues across the world. ZS EV has moved on to NMC cells from CATL.

[Contrapunto]

Originally Posted by saurabh_v8

Thanks buddy for the details.
Some questions as I will be taking Delia of xuv 400 in Artic blue, some where next week.

1. Can we install front parking sensors with integration in head unit.
2. Bulb upgrade suggestions for head light
3. Any important accessory that I need to source apart from mats, flaps, door molding, car cover, door end guard and dash cam

I will recommend to not touch ANY electrical element in an EV. The mechanics are still not fully trained, and the potential for getting something wrong, on introducing some poor quality, high risk electrical parts are very high.

[nhkvarma]

Originally Posted by Contrapunto

“Legwork” before I decided to buy the XUV400 EL Pro


I have test driven almost all the “mainstream” EV models (viz. BYD E6 and Atto3, MG ZS EV, MG Comet, XUV400 and my colleague’s Hyundai Kona). I exercised restraint in not “tasting” the EV6/ E6 in spite of “temptations” by friends.

My observations from driving the updated and “refreshed” XUV400 EL Pro which is what I am actively considering for purchase.

Positives
- A little wider than almost all cars in its segment and even from a price segment above. I specifically mean the interior volume for driver and rear seat passengers. It’s not only wider, but it’s also “perceptively” wider and feels more airy with the new light coloured seats and dual tone interior. This really makes a difference in perceived space, especially if you have a full car or you have a chauffeur driving you around.

- The balance of ride and handling is the best sorted one among all cars in this cohort listed above, and definitely better than ZS EV which is more expensive. The BYD E6 was the “floatiest” and crashed through at slightly taller speed breakers - which are dime a dozen in Bangalore. This feels like driving a “normal” car.

- There is a general solidity about the build and a sense of rigidity once you are sitting inside that’s difficult to find in most crossovers after the EcoSport days.

- The seats, especially in the front and wide and very comfortable- I would again say the best in segment. The dimensions are correct for an average height and unfit Indian (“me :-) ). I personally found the ergonomics really troublesome in the latest version of Nexon.

- Strong AC- true to all Mahindras.

- Rear AC vents and USB charging points. I understand this was missing in all the trims so far. …and ….

- Good safety- but that is table stakes these days . Its comment-worthy only if its absence. This does not have the ADAS Level 2 features, but considering that I propose to use it mostly in the city and suburbs, I am OK with this.

- Last but not the least- it comes with a spare tyre. This is a boon when most EVs are completely skipping this. BYD E6, Nexon and ZS EV has a spare tyre, but Tiago EV, Punch EV, and others do not. Even the more expensive models do not even have any provision for it. I wonder how buyers find the confidence to drive on Indian roads with just a puncture repair kit. I have experienced a punctured sidewall 4 times in the last 7-8 years, thrice in the middle of nowhere on perfectly good roads!! The absence of a spare tyre would be a dealbreaker for me. This was the main reason why I did not want to wait for the MG4 or the BYD Dolphin - neither of them have a wheel well to place a spare tyre, even if you are open to paying for it yourself.

Negatives/ “Meh” points - but I would keep this section in perspective to its price point of INR 18.5 Lakh OTR

- The “bite” of the brake was a bit to sharp, this can be a bit more progressive perhaps
- Spare tyre is a space saver - this needs an upgrade on Day 1
- The rear seats could have done with a bit more under-thigh support.

,….and that’s about it.

The choice made, now its time to tie up the financing etc, and I hope no new model suddenly come out in the next 2 months sending me back to the drawing board.

I have very similar feedback about the XUV 400.

About the spare tire, I think it should not be a deal breaker. Punch have slot to buy a spare wheel and place it by ourselves. I usually consider any missing feature that's not best as aftermarket is not right. So spending a little for a regular steel wheel (which usually comes in most cars) or a same version full tire that comes with the car (more convenient as you don't have to again swap the tires after fixing a flat wheel).

Haven't driven the BYD nor considered as its price bracket is entirely different. As my preference is mostly for city raids and occasionally long ones, a car with good space, has sensors or cameras (so my spouse can handle it with confidence) would be good enough. The ZS caught my eye, particularly for its build quality and premium finishes compared to others. Moreover, it's the same model and variant available in the European market, which adds to its appeal. Despite its price being higher I was lenient to go for it, but the suspension turned me down. It exhibited a heavier swaying effect on uneven roads at slower speeds, which was a significant drawback. My test drive car was a new one. Given the scarcity of complaints about its slow-speed stiff and boaty ride quality, I'm left wondering if the one I tried was an exception or if the air pressure was unusually high.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by Contrapunto

. Among the mainstream models, MG ZS EV, Huundai Kona still uses NMC cells. Tata Motors (at least for the Xenon) has moved on to LFP cells which they now manufacture in India (under license from BYD AFAIK).

ZS EV has moved on to NMC cells from CATL.

You are misinformed. MG ZS moved from NMC to LFP from 2021 facelift model onwards. It's only in other countries where the long range MG ZS is sold does it come with a NMC pack, while the lower range model gets the LFP.

Tata doesn't use battery from BYD but rather from Gotion.

[nhkvarma]

Originally Posted by Contrapunto

Thermal runway for NMC is indeed a concern. Most manufacturers are skirting around this topic. However, I expect NMC chemistry to continue for a long time still while LFP slowly builds up. Among the mainstream models, MG ZS EV, Huundai Kona still uses NMC cells. Tata Motors (at least for the Xenon) has moved on to LFP cells which they now manufacture in India (under license from BYD AFAIK).

XUV400 NMC cells (to my knowledge) are from LG Chem which has been at the center of thermal issues across the world. ZS EV has moved on to NMC cells from CATL.

There is no warrant to claim NMC batteries having thermal issues for XUV 400 yet. Mahindra claims to have a state of art cooling tech integrated.

ZS latest is with LFP Tech. LMFP tech is now taking over LFP.

Originally Posted by KeepItSimple

Mahindra has a good product with the update of the xuv 400.
Some concerns for a purchase decision are related to the Nmc battery pack.
What are the risks to users for a thermal runaway in a hot country like India?
What about an unfortunate collision?
The resale of the car after 5 or 10 or 15 years are likely very poor as the entire market is shifting to Lfp battery packs including mahindra.
Are there any other electric vehicles in India using the Nmc battery pack?
Request some thoughts and experience from members.

NMC batteries are still preferred by some companies globally for their performance and fast charging capabilities. With no reported fatal issues for 400, so far in over a year, it instills confidence in its reliability. I believe Mahindra would have a very cautious approach and so it's unlikely they would risk introducing a thermally unstable and hazardous battery into the market, with potential repercussions on their EV future.

Apart from this, about NMC, I've been searching for user reviews on any range drop issues in vehicles like the previous gen ZS, Kona, or XUV that utilize NMC batteries over extended use or numerous charge cycles, but haven't found any significant evidence. Looking ahead, a pertinent question arises: Will Mahindra replace the battery with the same NMC or opt for LFP in the future after the battery's expected lifespan of 8 years or 1.6 lakh km?

[KeepItSimple]

Originally Posted by nhkvarma

There is no warrant to claim NMC batteries having thermal issues for XUV 400 yet. Mahindra claims to have a state of art cooling tech integrated.

ZS latest is with LFP Tech. LMFP tech is now taking over LFP.



NMC batteries are still preferred by some companies globally for their performance and fast charging capabilities. With no reported fatal issues for 400, so far in over a year, it instills confidence in its reliability. I believe Mahindra would have a very cautious approach and so it's unlikely they would risk introducing a thermally unstable and hazardous battery into the market, with potential repercussions on their EV future.

Apart from this, about NMC, I've been searching for user reviews on any range drop issues in vehicles like the previous gen ZS, Kona, or XUV that utilize NMC batteries over extended use or numerous charge cycles, but haven't found any significant evidence. Looking ahead, a pertinent question arises: Will Mahindra replace the battery with the same NMC or opt for LFP in the future after the battery's expected lifespan of 8 years or 1.6 lakh km?

This is indeed reassuring. Do you have any idea on the warranty package for the Xuv 400. Does this cover battery replacement for any issues that may arise? Of course I may have to take this up with Mahindra. Thank you.

[Contrapunto]

Originally Posted by aim120

You are misinformed. MG ZS moved from NMC to LFP from 2021 facelift model onwards. It's only in other countries where the long range MG ZS is sold does it come with a NMC pack, while the lower range model gets the LFP.

Tata doesn't use battery from BYD but rather from Gotion.

Thanks . I stand corrected.

[nhkvarma]

There's been extensive discussion surrounding NMC batteries, and it appears for most buyers it is a deal breaker to go for XUV 400. Despite the vehicle being on the market for over a year, I haven't been able to find any user feedback on range drop issues after a certain number of miles or charging cycles. I'm eager to see if anyone has any reviews on this.

In Hyderabad, I encountered a Mahindra salesperson who seemed to be the most knowledgeable individual I've ever spoken to at any car dealer. He appears to be well-versed on the cars he is marketing. According to this person, one advantage of Mahindra is that, in addition to the standard 8-year warranty on the battery, the company offers to replace individual cells that have reached the end of their lifespan rather than replacing the entire battery unit. However, I have a few doubts regarding this:

Is this information accurate?
Does the same policy apply to other cars, such as Tata and MG?
On a slightly different note, in the future, say after 8 years of battery life, will Mahindra be able to provide replacement cells or battery units, considering the news that the company is transitioning entirely to LFP for its future cars? Or will they offer LFP replacements later on?

[DIY410]

Originally Posted by nhkvarma

gAccording to this person, one advantage of Mahindra is that, in addition to the standard 8-year warranty on the battery, the company offers to replace individual cells that have reached the end of their lifespan rather than replacing the entire battery unit. However, I have a few doubts regarding this:

Is this information accurate?
Does the same policy apply to other cars, such as Tata and MG?
On a slightly different note, in the future, say after 8 years of battery life, will Mahindra be able to provide replacement cells or battery units, considering the news that the company is transitioning entirely to LFP for its future cars? Or will they offer LFP replacements later on?

So can they theoretically replace the individual cells, the answer is yes.
But it's not practical. In the old EV days of E2O, Reva which runs of 48v or 16 cells in series, its possible to replace.

But in a HV 400v pack, which is also liquid cooled and has several hundered or thousands of cells, its not possible to replace individual cells because there are so many spot/laser welds, fuses, thermal pads, fire insulation, cooling channels. So without breaking open a lot of stuff, it doesn't make sense to replace individual cells.

Tesla is now offering LFP packs as replacement to older Model 3 customers, who bought cars with NMC pack for warranty claims. But whether Mahindra can is a whole different matter.

[saurabh_v8]

Dear experts,

My xuv 400 is giving a range of 185kms on 80% charge with 50 kms range remaining.

I have completed 2 charge cycles

I drive in bumper to bumper traffic with proper cooling and upgraded music system.

I prefer driving in L mode

Driving in Mumbai borivali to andheri in peak hours

My wh/km is 196.

Pl comment on the range

[nhkvarma]

Originally Posted by KeepItSimple

This is indeed reassuring. Do you have any idea on the warranty package for the Xuv 400. Does this cover battery replacement for any issues that may arise? Of course I may have to take this up with Mahindra. Thank you.

Yes, the battery and motor comes with an official 8 year or 1,60,000km warranty. I am not sure about the terms and conditions with it, but must be the usual ones such as normal usage, recommended maintenance etc.

[mally2]

Originally Posted by saurabh_v8

Dear experts,

My xuv 400 is giving a range of 185kms on 80% charge with 50 kms range remaining.

I have completed 2 charge cycles

I drive in bumper to bumper traffic with proper cooling and upgraded music system.

I prefer driving in L mode

Driving in Mumbai borivali to andheri in peak hours

My wh/km is 196.

Pl comment on the range

Your whkm is too high. The ideal range you should be able to bring it to should be 140-150 whkm. With lots of practice and skill 120-130 is possible

[smrtdvl]

Originally Posted by saurabh_v8

Dear experts,

My xuv 400 is giving a range of 185kms on 80% charge with 50 kms range remaining.

I have completed 2 charge cycles

I drive in bumper to bumper traffic with proper cooling and upgraded music system.

I prefer driving in L mode

Driving in Mumbai borivali to andheri in peak hours

My wh/km is 196.

Pl comment on the range

The range is on the lesser side. Request you to reset wh/km once you charge it to 100% Just press the set button for 5 seconds and it is done.

[saurabh_v8]

Originally Posted by nhkvarma

Yes, the battery and motor comes with an official 8 year or 1,60,000km warranty.

True for battery.

But everything else has 3 years unlimited kms warranty. Which can be extended by another 3 years and unlimited kms by paying INR 33k plus gst.

[saurabh_v8]

[quote=

XUV400 NMC cells (to my knowledge) are from LG Chem.[/QUOTE]

Not any more. Farasis Energy from China is supplying the battery.