[saurabh_v8]

Originally Posted by Contrapunto

I will recommend to not touch ANY electrical element in an EV. The mechanics are still not fully trained, and the potential for getting something wrong, on introducing some poor quality, high risk electrical parts are very high.

I have done a lot of electrical stuff here:

1. Hard wired dual channel dashcam. F7n
2. Car car rat repellent
3. Hertz Mille pro 165.3 2 way components (2 pair)
4. Class D Chinese amp (Brand: Need for Speed)
5. SANSUI Kala 1000 dsp
6. Pioneer under seat sub wx400da

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by Contrapunto

I will recommend to not touch ANY electrical element in an EV. The mechanics are still not fully trained, and the potential for getting something wrong, on introducing some poor quality, high risk electrical parts are very high.

Originally Posted by saurabh_v8

I have done a lot of electrical stuff here:

1. Hard wired dual channel dashcam. F7n
2. Car car rat repellent
3. Hertz Mille pro 165.3 2 way components (2 pair)
4. Class D Chinese amp (Brand: Need for Speed)
5. SANSUI Kala 1000 dsp
6. Pioneer under seat sub wx400da

All these accessories run off the 12v battery and associated wiring, just like any ICE car. This circuit is totally separate from the high voltage lines than connect the motor and main battery. Adding aftermarket accessories to an EV is no different than in a regular petrol or diesel car. Just that, people have a lot of unfounded apprehensions. More importantly, this gives the service people a convenient excuse to wash their hands off in case there is something inherently wrong with the vehicle that needs warranty replacement.

[DIY410]

Originally Posted by saurabh_v8

I have done a lot of electrical stuff here:

1. Hard wired dual channel dashcam. F7n
2. Car car rat repellent
3. Hertz Mille pro 165.3 2 way components (2 pair)
4. Class D Chinese amp (Brand: Need for Speed)
5. SANSUI Kala 1000 dsp
6. Pioneer under seat sub wx400da

If the Amplifier and Sub draw more current then the 12V battery, it will then start to draw power from the DC-DC converter, which has to power everything from electric power steering to all other 12V components. Some DC-DC converters also power the low voltage AC compressor. If that part fails, they are going to blame it on your aftermarket Audio system. That part is not cheap, since its usually a 3 in 1 device that also has a AC-DC charger, costing close to a lakh.

[saurabh_v8]

Originally Posted by DIY410

If the Amplifier and Sub draw more current then the 12V battery, it will then start to draw power from the DC-DC converter, which has to power everything from electric power steering to all other 12V components. Some DC-DC converters also power the AC compressor. If that part fails, they are going to blame it on your aftermarket Audio system. That part is not cheap, since it’s usually a 3 in 1 device that also has a AC-DC charger, costing close to a lakh.

1. Firstly I would like to understand if the music system is connected to 12v battery how would it draw power from dc to dc converter.

2. Also to support your claim if I play very loud music the accessory wh usage goes beyond 10. It seems power is drawn from the NMC battery. Which reduces on lower volumes and if ac is turned off

3. In ICE cars 12v battery is more than sufficient to power a much larger music system upgrade.
I am not talking of the those music systems that can play music for an entire complex.
So why should an ev draw power from NMC battery

[saurabh_v8]

Originally Posted by DIY410

If the Amplifier and Sub draw more current then the 12V battery, it will then start to draw power from the DC-DC converter, which has to power everything from electric power steering to all other 12V components. Some DC-DC converters also power the AC compressor. If that part fails, they are going to blame it on your aftermarket Audio system. That part is not cheap, since it’s usually a 3 in 1 device that also has a AC-DC charger, costing close to a lakh.

1. Firstly I would like to understand if the music system is connected to 12v battery how would it draw power from dc to dc converter.

2. Also to support your claim if I play very loud music the accessory wh usage goes beyond 10. It seems power is drawn from the NMC battery. Which reduces on lower volumes and if ac is turned off

3. In ICE cars 12v battery is more than sufficient to power a much larger music system upgrade.
I am not talking of the those music systems that can play music for an entire complex.
So why should an ev draw power from NMC battery

[DIY410]

Originally Posted by saurabh_v8

1. Firstly I would like to understand if the music system is connected to 12v battery how would it draw power from dc to dc converter.

2. Also to support your claim if I play very loud music the accessory wh usage goes beyond 10. It seems power is drawn from the NMC battery. Which reduces on lower volumes and if ac is turned off

3. In ICE cars 12v battery is more than sufficient to power a much larger music system upgrade.
I am not talking of the those music systems that can play music for an entire complex.
So why should an ev draw power from NMC battery

1. The DC-DC converter is the one that charges your 12V battery. In a engine powered car, the charging is done by a alternator.

2. The NMC battery is the primary source of power but that is High Voltage, the DC-DC converter converts that High Voltage DC to Low Voltage DC.

3. In a ICE car, the 12V battery is designed to primarly start the car, it has high cranking amps. Its not designed for continous high power draw. As the voltage of the battery drops due to high load the alternator starts to compensate with increases power production. So your battery is not heavily discharged after the initial engine cranking.

All EVs draw power from High voltage battery. Your 12V battery in a typical EV is only rated at 40AH which 480 Wh but for continous power draw, its only rated at 220 Wh or less.

[camaroon]

Originally Posted by nhkvarma

There's been extensive discussion surrounding NMC batteries, and it appears for most buyers it is a deal breaker to go for XUV 400.

XUV400 would have been my first choice if it had not been for the NMC Battery.

The page gives comparison of the two, https://lohum.com/media/blog/types-o...cles-in-india/

Reproducing from the above site, Some of the disadvantages of NMC batteries relative to LFP are:

• Shorter life span: NMC batteries have a shorter life span than LFP batteries, as they degrade faster with each charge and discharge cycle. They typically last for 3 to 5 years, depending on the usage and maintenance.
• Narrow operational temperature: NMC batteries have a narrower operating temperature band of between 15°C to 35°C (59°F to 95°F), and are more prone to thermal runaway at high temperatures
• Less eco-friendly: NMC batteries are less environmentally friendly, as they use scarce and expensive metals like cobalt and nickel, which have a high environmental and social impact.

The key one being the max operating temperature of 35°C. In India ambient temperatures can exceed 45°C even when the car is off and much higher if it is parked under the sun.

[saurabh_v8]

Originally Posted by DIY410

If the Amplifier and Sub draw more current then the 12V battery, it will then start to draw power from the DC-DC converter, which has to power everything from electric power steering to all other 12V components. Some DC-DC converters also power the AC compressor. If that part fails, they are going to blame it on your aftermarket Audio system. That part is not cheap, since it’s usually a 3 in 1 device that also has a AC-DC charger, costing close to a lakh.

1. Firstly I would like to understand if the music system is connected to 12v battery how would it draw power from dc to dc converter.

2. Also to support your claim if I play very loud music the accessory wh usage goes beyond 10. It seems power is drawn from the NMC battery. Which reduces on lower volumes and if ac is turned off

3. In ICE cars 12v battery is more than sufficient to power a much larger music system upgrade.
I am not talking of the those music systems that can play music for an entire complex.
So why should an ev draw power from NMC battery

[saurabh_v8]

Originally Posted by camaroon

XUV400 would have been my first choice if it had not been for the NMC Battery.

The page gives comparison of the two, https://lohum.com/media/blog/types-o...cles-in-india/

Reproducing from the above site, Some of the disadvantages of NMC batteries relative to LFP are:

• Shorter life span: NMC batteries have a shorter life span than LFP batteries, as they degrade faster with each charge and discharge cycle. They typically last for 3 to 5 years, depending on the usage and maintenance.
• Narrow operational temperature: NMC batteries have a narrower operating temperature band of between 15°C to 35°C (59°F to 95°F), and are more prone to thermal runaway at high temperatures
• Less eco-friendly: NMC batteries are less environmentally friendly, as they use scarce and expensive metals like cobalt and nickel, which have a high environmental and social impact.

The key one being the max operating temperature of 35°C. In India ambient temperatures can exceed 45°C even when the car is off and much higher if it is parked under the sun.

1. Based on the same link if you are driving xuv400 for 200k + kms in 3-5 years then yes your battery will start degrading and you won’t have any warranty post 160k kms
2. Ev Batteries have cooling mechanism just like any ice car that ensures optimal temperature
3. All ev batteries are insulated from external conditions. Evs are driven in desserts as well with no challenges at all.

Ideally a car buyer should no worry about LFP or NMC battery. Most luxury ev have NMC.

Reasons one should not buy an ev:
1. For achieving a good range in ev one need to drive very carefully. If we drive petrol cars in a similar way I believe we may have 30% better efficiency
2.Home charging set up requires electric meter with minimum 7.5kwh capacity, dedicated parking space and lot of opposition from residents and security for fire and other issues
3. You cannot exploring into the abyss. long journey needs to be planned.
4. You cannot go to a local garage so having service station near one’s house is an absolute must

[vickster]

Hi

Do you know what prices are being offered now for the 2024 Xuv 400 pro variant.? I took a test drive recently and it seems like a well sorted car and seems better value compared to the nexon ev long range.
Here in Kerala, the dealer quoted a price of Rs.18.62L on road. Is it around the same elsewhere too?

Thanks.

[vickster]

Hi

Is this the Long range variant you have mentioned about? Seems really low. Owners of the ore face lifts vehicles have told me the worst they have got is in the range of 240 - 250kms. What is your average speed?

[nhkvarma]

Originally Posted by camaroon

XUV400 would have been my first choice if it had not been for the NMC Battery.

The page gives comparison of the two, https://lohum.com/media/blog/types-o...cles-in-india/

Reproducing from the above site, Some of the disadvantages of NMC batteries relative to LFP are:

• Shorter life span: NMC batteries have a shorter life span than LFP batteries, as they degrade faster with each charge and discharge cycle. They typically last for 3 to 5 years, depending on the usage and maintenance.
• Narrow operational temperature: NMC batteries have a narrower operating temperature band of between 15°C to 35°C (59°F to 95°F), and are more prone to thermal runaway at high temperatures
• Less eco-friendly: NMC batteries are less environmentally friendly, as they use scarce and expensive metals like cobalt and nickel, which have a high environmental and social impact.

The key one being the max operating temperature of 35°C. In India ambient temperatures can exceed 45°C even when the car is off and much higher if it is parked under the sun.

1. Regarding battery lifespan, I think NMC batteries typically endure 1000 to 1500 cycles before dropping to 80% health, compared to LFP batteries lasting around 1500 to 3000 cycles. However, the battery warranty runs out by 1.6 lac km already which is approx 600 to 700 cycles.

2.NMCs have been present in the Indian market for a while now. Models like the old MG ZS, Kona, Mercedes, and now the 400 have all been enduring Indian summers, and I've never heard of any thermal issues with them. Global studies suggest that ICEs and hybrids carry history of higher heat-related accidents and fatalities than EVs. Besides, I am also trying to find any real life or tested results if black EVs are more vulnerable to thermal instabilities than lighter ones but no luck yet.

3. EVs are not ecofriendly as we think and yes, NMCs much lesser than LFPs as per current information. It's devastating to witness how NMC batteries are sourced in Indonesia and Africa. However, materials like lithium, copper, and aluminum remain prevalent in both cases and have detrimental effects on water, biodiversity, and human rights, particularly within their respective supply chains.

[wocanak]

Originally Posted by nhkvarma

3. EVs are not ecofriendly as we think and yes, NMCs much lesser than LFPs as per current information. It's devastating to witness how NMC batteries are sourced in Indonesia and Africa. However, materials like lithium, copper, and aluminum remain prevalent in both cases and have detrimental effects on water, biodiversity, and human rights, particularly within their respective supply chains.

If you look at the data below for a 60kWh battery, you will understand the narrative which is being fed. Hardly 5 to 30 kgs of each metal is used, most of the Indian EVs are 40 kWh, so scale this numbers down by 2/3. Further Indian EVs volume is mainly LFP, so apart from common metals only 4 kgs of Lithium. Note that 1.2l ICE engines start from 100 to 120 kgs of Aluminium and go to 200+ kgs for larger engines. Now each full tank is 20+ kgs of fossil fuel, the extraction, refining, transportation and burning of that makes the pollution from mining these these 10 to 20 kgs much smaller in comparison. Sure, EVs use fossil fuel based electricity, but that share is going down and renewable share is increasing in all countries, including India. Is there any scope for such rapid improvement for ICE and fossil fuels?

Source: https://www.mining.com/web/the-key-m...an-ev-battery/

[saurabh_v8]

Originally Posted by vickster

Hi

Do you know what prices are being offered now for the 2024 Xuv 400 pro variant.? I took a test drive recently and it seems like a well sorted car and seems better value compared to the nexon ev long range.
Here in Kerala, the dealer quoted a price of Rs.18.62L on road. Is it around the same elsewhere too?

Thanks.

I don’t think there is any difference in price across city as there is no road tax in my state Maharashtra and your state kerela.

Assuming the variant here is el pro long range with out dual tone.

This should cost 18.2L

Ex showroom: 17.49
TCS: 17490
Registration: 1200
ACKO insurance: 50k

Pardon my math, the figure is off by 2-3k

[sachinshastry]

Originally Posted by nhkvarma

It's devastating to witness how NMC batteries are sourced in Indonesia and Africa. However, materials like lithium, copper, and aluminum remain prevalent in both cases and have detrimental effects on water, biodiversity, and human rights, particularly within their respective supply chains.

This propaganda seem to have spread well all over the internet. I wonder why people are so concerned over "human rights" only when it comes to battery production, whereas totally ignore it when it comes to oil extraction. As wocanak has pointed out, the quantity of the rare earth metals used in a NMC battery is less (around 20kg for a 40kwh pack) . LFP batteries contains no nickel and cobalt.

Coming to oil, has it not caused countries to go to war with each other? Its also a well known fact that some countries have been using the oil money to sponsor anti-social and anti-national activities all around the world. Many oil rich countries are also put under sanctions due to various geo political complications. Rich oil companies have been involved in lobbying the governments in many poor countries to exploit the resources despite people's opposition there. Oil spills causing damage to marine life is well known. So does this not have detrimental effects on water, biodiversity and human rights? Why treat EV as a villain and oil as a saint in terms of ethical sourcing? The problem lies in supply chain which needs to be sorted out in both. But branding EVs as evil for it is not justifiable.

Sorry for going off the topic, but just wanted to talk about this, as I see every youtube video these days against EVs seem to show only one side of the story and completely ignore the other. It seems as if straight out of a "toolkit".