[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

clicking pics, listening to music (where i think iphone may have an upper hand) & web browsing (timescape feature plays an important role).

Out of these, i find X10's cam to be much better in terms of picture quality & features.

The iPhone 4 does better video in terms of quality and frame rates than X10 and in terms of per pixel clarity its one of the best in the market.

Originally Posted by raj_5004

i dint get the chance to compare iphones' & X10's music quality back to back.

I have and goes without saying that iPhone is better, much better. X10 doesn't even support music equalizers.

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Timescape is one feature which i like in X10 as it integrates all my mail accounts, FB account, twitter account & even general call handling, messages & media files all together in one interface, which makes it really convenient.

I haven't used the timescape feature much but X10 can't hold a candle to iPhone 3GS when it comes to web browsing simply because it doesnt support multitouch. iPhone 4 is plain out of reach because it has the stunning high res display too.

[Newpunter]

Originally Posted by HellwratH

And except for flash, what don't you like about Safari? And as far as I remember, I have used another browsing application that had come out, umm, I think it was full browser or something that would basically take out all the extra space used by the safari to display back etc.

Other than iTunes erasing, is there anything in specific that you don't like? Apple released iTunes for both windows and mac, KIES (samsung software) is not even available for mac users! Beat that!

All the browsers on the Iphone have to use Safari as the base. They are a bit like skins on Safari. Only Opera Mini is different, but its not a full browser coz the rendering is done on Opera servers. I don't like Safari coz the tab implementation sucks. I'm someone who can't wait for a page to load and has to go to other tabs. In Safari when there is a problem with one of the tabs, you can't even move to the others. There are far superior web browsers on Android and Symbian like Opera Mobile and the Android browser and Apple has no incentive to improve Safari coz there is no competition on the Iphone.
Regarding Itunes, it is sooo slow on Windows, I hate it. I agree KIES sucks too. But the difference is that with the Iphone, you are stuck with Itunes. You have to use it to copy music, movies , apps , anything onto the phone. With the other phones, you can just drag and drop files onto the phone and they will work. But Apple wants tight control on everything and they won't even let you copy things onto the phone you paid for without using their crappy Itunes. I still don't understand why they have to have so many programs running in the background once you install Itunes. It's a bit like spyware.

Originally Posted by HellwratH

My point being, every phone has it's positives and negatives. Choose the one that suits you the most and stop bashing a phone just because it was release by a particular brand and is priced on the higher side. For most of us, even a basic nokia phone or a chinese phone might suffice, why do we have to go out and spend 10 times more to get a branded phone? Warranty you may say and I agree, iPhones have been replaced without users being asked any kind of questions and HTC service has been known to be ignorant about their own phones when it came to warranty.

Completely agree. Please note that I don't hate the Iphone. I'm pointing out the things that i don't like with it. I know there are things that it does extremely well and i understand many people buy it coz it meets their requirement. But on the other hand, there are also many people who buy it just coz it is from Apple .

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by Newpunter

All the browsers on the Iphone have to use Safari as the base. They are a bit like skins on Safari. Only Opera Mini is different, but its not a full browser coz the rendering is done on Opera servers. I don't like Safari coz the tab implementation sucks. I'm someone who can't wait for a page to load and has to go to other tabs. In Safari when there is a problem with one of the tabs, you can't even move to the others. There are far superior web browsers on Android and Symbian like Opera Mobile and the Android browser and Apple has no incentive to improve Safari coz there is no competition on the Iphone.

Who says you can't move on to a different page while one is loading or I have misunderstood you there. I regularly surf tbhp on my iPhone and I have multiple thread opened as a "new page" all of them loading at the same time. Apart from flash support, Safari is the best mobile browser if you ask me. And I dont want flash support because I know how at times it even brings my PC to a crawl. If there are better, lighter technologies out there why make an outdated slow technology as a standard.

I am not an Apple fanboy by a long shot and was looking at Galaxy S before I bought by iPhone 3GS. While the Samsung is good is doing somethings, the iPhone is better everywhere else. The user interface just isnt polished enough.

And for those who feel iPhone is expensive, compare the prices and specs of the iPhone 4 and Samsung Galaxy S unlocked and you will get the answer. The Galaxy S comes for 450 Pounds while iPhone is 500 Pounds but then the iphone gives you better camera quality and video recording, higher resolution screen, exquisite looks (it feels very expensive in hand while samsung is cheap plastic all around), iPod music player, a gyroscope along with all the other sensors and I feel its absolutely worth the price.

Originally Posted by Newpunter

Regarding Itunes, it is sooo slow on Windows, I hate it. I agree KIES sucks too. But the difference is that with the Iphone, you are stuck with Itunes. You have to use it to copy music, movies , apps , anything onto the phone. With the other phones, you can just drag and drop files onto the phone and they will work. But Apple wants tight control on everything and they won't even let you copy things onto the phone you paid for without using their crappy Itunes. I still don't understand why they have to have so many programs running in the background once you install Itunes. It's a bit like spyware.

What is your PC's configuration because on my 4 year old office laptop, the iTunes runs just fine and never slows down. Its a pentium 4 1.6 Ghz with 512 MB RAM. iTunes was a nuisance when I first encountered it but now when I also use it as my music player, its all fine. I can have the same music playlists both on the phone and on my PC and all I have to do to add music to my phone is to press the button "Sync" and it takes care of everything else, even if I am putting repeat files which would be copied only once. Dare I say but I now find it convenient.

[SilentEngine]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Well, someone told me you have to use an iphone to see how good it is. i used my uncle's iphone for 5 days & frankly dint find any big difference in its user interface. people say the touchscreen (sensitivity as some say) of the iphone is the best but honestly, even my X10's screen feels the same. but then thats my opinion.

By user interface, i am talking about the design, importance given to aesthetics and the consistency in the UI. I find it really intuitive and it's easy for a new user and most importantly non geek user to get used to it. Of course this is just my opinion.

I did a spec-to-spec comparo as i feel that some of these things are highly overated in the iphone.

Specs always don't mean everything. For a normal user (not a power user like you or me) specs don't actually matter much. Of course Apple does a good job in marketing some of these features as if they are the first ones to do it (FaceTime, Retina Display etc).

A 1GHz phone running Android 2.1 is not necessarily faster than a blackberry or iPhone 3GS running on slower processors. Android is still in early stages of it's life cycle. Android 2.2 is supposed to be 2.5 times faster, why? 2.1 and earlier versions were so much slower so naturally any update will be significantly faster.
I can talk from my own experience of developing applications for native platforms for Blackberry, Android (both J2ME based) and iPhone. Android is significantly slower than Blackberry and iPhone when doing certain kind of intensive string processing, which is quite common operation for most of applications dealing with real time data.

I think what Apple does well is, it is optimized in whatever it does. It's hardware and the OS are in sync and overall you get a good user experience. (as pointed out by many in this thread already).

of course, its a good phone, but since some major features are lacking, i think it should be priced a lot less.

Agreed it's priced higher in Indian market, but you cannot go by just that. In the US market, i think it's price is justified and i wouldn't call it costly.

can brand value play such a big role? is it that i want an iphone because my neighbour has one?

yes and no. Most people buy just keeping brand in mind. It's not just any brand, but a brand which has a good track record in keeping their loyal consumers happy.

even in terms of looks, i feel all samsungs, SEs & iphones are almost equivalent-

Yes, SE always had good looks. Not sure about Samsung, i actually don't like how the galaxy S looks, it looks like samsung try to copy iPhone's looks (no offence please )

Just to clarify, my next phone might well be an Android or Win 7 based. Though i admire iPhone for the device it is, i don't agree with Apple's 'my way or high way' philosophy. It's highly restrictive.

[HellwratH]

Originally Posted by Newpunter

Regarding Itunes, it is sooo slow on Windows, I hate it. I agree KIES sucks too. But the difference is that with the Iphone, you are stuck with Itunes. You have to use it to copy music, movies , apps , anything onto the phone. With the other phones, you can just drag and drop files onto the phone and they will work. But Apple wants tight control on everything and they won't even let you copy things onto the phone you paid for without using their crappy Itunes.

Apple also hears their customers. They have allowed one app, which will make you happy .

Want some USB file transfers functionality on your iOS 4 device? Look again, it’s right there!

[ph03n!x]

Whoa! When did this become an apple vs rest thread?!! Interesting to see the exchange back and forth. Apple's product design ideology always has been make things simple, easy and yet powerful. They have extremely good products that, like many have said here, does what it is supposed to and does it well. Its my sheer level of comfort with the company that makes me say I will never buy an iPhone or anything that has the bitten-apple logo on it:

1) They control their platform too tightly for my comfort
2) Not comfortable with their business model, which centers in extending the lifetime value of whoever buys something from them - eg. If I buy an iTouch, I can't be done with apple. I have to use iTunes. And then we have the app store and what not.

This is not a reason, rather something I am telling: As a company, Apple is extremely allergic to criticism and are extremely defensive about their products - anyone who follows Tom's Hardware would know the extents apple would go when on the defensive. And this rubs off on apple users too, they are one passionate lot! Try telling a Nokia or SE user that the company sucks, you will not get anything more than maybe a weird look. Try that with an iPhone wielding dude, and you are in for an argument - pretty similar to what we see here

[jassi]

^^ haven't seen the last few comments, but apples closed restrictive policies are quite evident from their proprietary connectors and closed software. Try using the iphone to visit nickelodeon's website or natgeo or bbc and try the flash based content like videos, games, etc. :-) I don't need a freaking youtube app to play youtube videos on my android device and all flash stuff works great.
Whats missing on android 2.2? multi-touch is there, bluetooth works, quickoffice, pdf, outlook integration, its all there. The only thing iphone had over winmo devices was the capacitive touch screen and cool UI, all other basic functionality was in development for years. And now whatever lil look and feel advantage they had, is gone with the android based phones. Winmo 7 is also going to get MS back in the game i hear. So apple had the lead on some aspects and they are a good marketing machine which works on fanboyism - but there are better choices now.

[zaks]

No its just not pure brand name, Apples products appeals to peoples intuition and the rest of the companies are just selling stuff which sometimes happens to come close to an Apple device.

They are the masters when it comes to marriage between hardware and software.

[Newpunter]

Originally Posted by HellwratH

J
Take the iPhone, even a 2g can support ios 4, the only limitation being the RAM on it. Beat that, a 2007 phone can support an OS released in 2010. Where as in android, a 2010 phone may not even support an OS released in 2010/11 .

Nope 2G cannot run IOS4. Only the 3g, 3gS and Iphone4 run it. This, inspite of the 3G and 2G sharing the exact same RAM and Processor. This is another reason why i dont like Apple. IOS4 on the 3G runs very slow and not all features are available, like multi tasking. This inspite of multi tasking being availalbe on jailbroken iphones for ages. Probably coz Apple wants to force you to throw away your old phone and make you buy the latest one.

Regarding Android 3.0, the minimum requirement is a 1GHZ processor and 512 MB RAM. So most of the current phones like the Droid X, Galaxy S, Nexus One, will be able to support it.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by Newpunter

Nope 2G cannot run IOS4. Only the 3g, 3gS and Iphone4 run it. This, inspite of the 3G and 2G sharing the exact same RAM and Processor. This is another reason why i dont like Apple.

Yes officially it doesnt but then which mobile company keeps on providing support for phones which are almost three years old??? Certain Korean company forgets about the handsets released a few months ago.

Originally Posted by Newpunter

IOS4 on the 3G runs very slow and not all features are available, like multi tasking. This inspite of multi tasking being availalbe on jailbroken iphones for ages. Probably coz Apple wants to force you to throw away your old phone and make you buy the latest one.

Yes IOS runs slow on iPhone 3G imagine what would have happened if multitasking was also enabled. It was a decision from Apple because the hardware isnt good enough. And isnt it asking too much from Apple to support a three year old handset just like they support their latest one which has much better hardware?
I have a jailbroken 3GS and multitasking is only for the browser and some other small applications.

Originally Posted by Newpunter

Regarding Android 3.0, the minimum requirement is a 1GHZ processor and 512 MB RAM. So most of the current phones like the Droid X, Galaxy S, Nexus One, will be able to support it.

I have used the much touted Android on Motorola Milestone and it sucked! Its no where near IOS by a long shot as far as user interface and usability is concerned. Yes the 2.2 is faster but it still isnt as fluid and as intuitive as IOS.

Besides another pertinent question asked above - How does it matter to a normal user if the platform is open source?
How does the OS being open source helping you? What can you do with your OS that Apple IOS4 can't and better at that?

As far catching up with IOS is concerned, other OS's have still not been able to master the pinch to zoom gestures? Try the gesture on the iPhone and then on any other competing handset and tell me which one feels better.

[jassi]

^^ @hellwrath - agree on some of your points. I agree iphone is innovative and I have gifted one to someone close as well as have one in the house. All I am saying is android has caught and so will winmo 7 on what iphone's differentiating factors - touch screen, good UI, app stores, multi-touch, etc and then they are offering somethings more like flash and so on.

I use a nexus one and use linux as my primary OS on office laptop (yes office IT staff hates me ) - so I am all for things which are open source and am not into proprietary closed systems.

As for iphone 2g running ios 4, I have a 3 year old htc diamond running android 2.1 very well, so I have no doubts on gingerbread not running on any of the current android hardware, although in some cases it maybe unofficially and with root access.

And no i am not a phone gamer (just ps3) - just saying phones need flash. The youtube app on nexus one is now redundant, it was there for when there was no flash support. I can play youtube, hulu, bbc iplayer videos, goto flash based internet radio sites and it all works from my browser - i don't need an app for everything, its a web enabled world and the browser is my client if i want it that way (agree apps are needed to make experience better in some cases) - yes even for cloud apps like salesforce or webex. Apple needs to be slightly more accepting to whats needed by consumers and just give it, i remember how their bluetooth could not be used for bluetooth transfers, or how itunes bought media is so restrictive when amazon offers drm free music.

So i am in this for because of a philiosophy i follow and live, not fanboyism. Maybe the same can be said about apple followers,maybe not - to each their own

[extreme_torque]

@jassi -- How does flash runs on the mobile? Doesnt it slows it down?

[jassi]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

@jassi -- How does flash runs on the mobile? Doesnt it slows it down?

nothing slow on my nexus one

YouTube - Flash Player 10.1 on Android 2.2 "Froyo"

i don't need to install a separate app for each of these activities - 2 games, 2 video sites, yahoo finance. Apps are good but you wont install an app for everything if you can just browse to it


here is another one

YouTube - Flash Player 10.1 on Android 2.2 (Nexus One)

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

The iPhone 4 does better video in terms of quality and frame rates than X10 and in terms of per pixel clarity its one of the best in the market.

most of us use our phone's cam more for pics rather than video. even the difference of video quality of iphone & X10 is just marginal, to be frank.

I have and goes without saying that iPhone is better, much better. X10 doesn't even support music equalizers.

true. X10's music player is pathetic, hope they add atleast equalizers in the update! the loudspeaker is so feeble, its practically useless!

I haven't used the timescape feature much but X10 can't hold a candle to iPhone 3GS when it comes to web browsing simply because it doesnt support multitouch. iPhone 4 is plain out of reach because it has the stunning high res display too.

i will diagree here. use the timescape to know how good it is. just because the X10 does not support multi touch, does that mean it is poor for web browsing, i dont think so.

if you compare, i would say multi touch is the only feature absent in the X10 compared to the iphone.

Originally Posted by SilentEngine

By user interface, i am talking about the design, importance given to aesthetics and the consistency in the UI. I find it really intuitive and it's easy for a new user and most importantly non geek user to get used to it. Of course this is just my opinion.

of course, you maybe right. but what i look for in an expensive phone is that - it should just not only get things done, but it should do it in a stylish way!!! the UI of X10 IMO is better as its more fascinating than the iphone's.

Note: i am comparing with the X10 since i dont own the Samsungs.

Specs always don't mean everything. For a normal user (not a power user like you or me) specs don't actually matter much. Of course Apple does a good job in marketing some of these features as if they are the first ones to do it (FaceTime, Retina Display etc).

very true. but when we are comparing the phones here, we wont just take an average user into consideration, right?

Agreed it's priced higher in Indian market, but you cannot go by just that. In the US market, i think it's price is justified and i wouldn't call it costly.

totally agree. even i have said i feel its a phone not worth its price, its price in india.

yes and no. Most people buy just keeping brand in mind. It's not just any brand, but a brand which has a good track record in keeping their loyal consumers happy.

so i can still safely assume the major contributor is the brand.

[AbhiJ]

I dont use an iphone myself because I do not like it much however my dad (2g & 3gs) has been a user for the last 3 years..

What I love about the iphone:

1) Design - Very Clean, Simple. They got the design spot-on the first time. All changes after that (3g, 3gs,4) has been evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

2) Simplicity - My 1.5 yr old daughter unlocks it, manages to find the photos, albums, and then scrolls through the pictures - On her own.
My 63 year old mother also managed to do the same the first time she used the iphone - without any training.

3) The Touch Screen - The usability/implementation of the touch screen is far better than any other devices I have seen.

4) Software - The software is exclusively designed for the iphone, so it works very well. It is also very easy to install s/w and there is a lot of it.

5) Quality - The iphone is built superbly and built to last. 3 yrs + and 100s of drops later, our 2G is still going strong. Battery lasts about 1.5 days.

Why I dont use an iphone:

I need my mobile to great at its basic purpose : i.e. a phone, which IMO the iphone is not.

For most Nokias, the device is a phone first, and the rest of the features are add ons.
In the Iphone, I feel that the "phone" is just an extra feature. That said, I do feel the iphone is one of the worlds best gadgets.

When it comes to basic usability as a phone (dialing, contact search etc), my Nokia E72 beats it hands down.