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Old 4th July 2019, 15:12   #1366
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries - Exide UPS

I had made up my mind to buy APC (after seeing a "Made in India" sticker on one of these units on a YouTube video where the presenter went on and on about the ingenious charging arrangement), but I guess fate decided otherwise.

Surprisingly, measuring power consumption, I realized the TV was consuming the largest amount of power (75W). Another surprise, the BLDC ceiling fan consumes 4W when still. I think I can get away with a 150AH, 12V system, with pure sine wave output, of course. I know I must buy Exide Inva Tubular, that's settled; thanks to all the enlightening comments from R2D2.

What do our inverter gurus (R2D2, Thad, Prowler, Aroy,...) have to say about Exide UPS/inverters?
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Old 5th July 2019, 09:41   #1367
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries - Exide UPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvadg View Post
..have to say about Exide UPS/inverters?
I have no experience with Exide inverters but guess they ought to be of acceptable quality at par with the likes of Su-kam, Luminous and Microtek. If you want my advice go for one of the 3 as they have satisfactory to good feedback (with some exceptions of course) from customers, plus good tech support.

I used both Sukam (24 V model) and Microtek (12 V model) at different periods of time and would rate both at 3-3.5 on 5. Decent quality with some niggles and equally decent support. To their credit there has never been a break down except for a blown fuse due to an inadvertent overload for which I cannot blame the inverter. The Su-kam also suffered a cooling fan failure after 5 years, remedied by a Rs 200 replacement by the company. Luminous ought of be of the same quality by my reckoning.

But MOST importantly neither model of inverter has ever overcharged or damaged the expensive batteries in any way. My 2 x Exide 200 AH are humming along just fine after over 6 years. Which IMO is a testament to a good charging circuit. The trickle charge voltage is rock steady at 27.6 VDC compared to the 27.4 V recommended by Exide. I have not measured ripple of course, lower the better. My Bosch and CTEK car chargers have a ripple voltage of 1-4%, a benchmark, at least for me.

My wish list? An inverter with temperature sensor and compensated charging voltage. Essential in our country.

Last edited by R2D2 : 5th July 2019 at 09:43.
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Old 5th July 2019, 13:16   #1368
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Hi Guys,

Prowler, Thanks for your input. I do not have an Inverter/UPS changeover switch on my Inverter.

Can anyone suggest the best batteries for an Inverter? Tubular preferred (recommended by dealer). I would like to go for Amaron as I have had good experiences with this brand in my cars. No idea about their Inverter batteries. Also, difficult to find in Goa.

My dealer is suggesting I go with "AutoBat" - a company I have never heard of but which he says is an established Company in Pune for the last 25 odd years. However, he may be getting a higher commision from this Company, so... He also says "Okaya" or "Escorts" Tubular batteries are other good options. Says I should steer well clear of Exide! I tend to agree with him as my first Exide battery failed within 5 months and he replaced under warranty.

What is the general consensus on this thread?

My plan is to fit a new Microtek 2.5Kva Digital Sine Wave Inverter (Microtek calls it a Static UPS) with 4 180Ah batteries to give me about 24 hours back up. This is going to cost about 50k so I need to know I am making the right decision before going ahead. The old Inverter and 2 batteries will be sold to a neighbour for about 15k. Actual investment is therefore about 35k.

As I am a complete noob in these matters please advise :
1. What is the difference between Inverter Power and UPS Power. Is it just the voltage range and a more seamless change over?
2. What is the difference between UPS and static UPS?
3. Will I be able to run an Aquaguard water purifier on the above system?
4. Will I be able to run a 1hp water pump (5 to 10 minutes max) on the above system?

Regards,
SS
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Old 5th July 2019, 13:43   #1369
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzuki san View Post
Hi Guys,

Prowler, Thanks for your input. I do not have an Inverter/UPS changeover switch on my Inverter.



What is the general consensus on this thread?

My plan is to fit a new Microtek 2.5Kva Digital Sine Wave Inverter (Microtek calls it a Static UPS) with 4 180Ah batteries to give me about 24 hours back up. This is going to cost about 50k so I need to know I am making the right decision before going ahead. The old Inverter and 2 batteries will be sold to a neighbour for about 15k. Actual investment is therefore about 35k.

As I am a complete noob in these matters please advise :
You can select Okayo instead of the unknown brand. Get only tubular batteries.
Quote:
1. What is the difference between Inverter Power and UPS Power. Is it just the voltage range and a more seamless change over?
It is just that some inverter manufacturers add extra circuitry to switch to the inverter mode when the mains input is within a narrow range. For example, Sukam inverter - the model I have switches into Inverter mode when the mains input falls to 200 V in UPS mode (170 V in the case of inverter mode). Seamless change over is not possible with normal Inverters. You need an Online UPS which always supplies from the inverter (through battery) and the battery is charged simultaneously from the mains. It is for sensitive electronics and servers. Naturally they are more expensive .

Quote:
2. What is the difference between UPS and static UPS?
Many companies use marketing lingo to describe some features. Unless you have access to their technical literature, I can't comment.

Quote:
3. Will I be able to run an Aquaguard water purifier on the above system?
A water purifier doesn't consume lot of power. Typically they use about 60 - 90 W for domestic types.

Quote:
4. Will I be able to run a 1hp water pump (5 to 10 minutes max) on the above system?
1 hp water pump using an induction motor will use around 1000 VA which is well within your stated inverter rating. But the starting current can be more than 8 A. Many inverters have a problem supplying high current when there is no mains input (cold start). Your mileage may vary.
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Old 5th July 2019, 17:26   #1370
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzuki san View Post
Can anyone suggest the best batteries for an Inverter? Tubular preferred (recommended by dealer).
Exide Invatubular, the car experience has been flaky but the inverter tubular batteries are rock solid. About 10 years of experience with this brand with 1 x 150 AH from 2009-2013 followed by 2 x 200 AH since 2013 and still going strong.

Quote:
Says I should steer well clear of Exide! I tend to agree with him as my first Exide battery failed within 5 months and he replaced under warranty.
What is the general consensus on this thread?
His commission level is doing the talking. Trust me, Exide it is. The only time I called Exide in the past decade (see above) is when I registered the batteries. Even their the quality of their car batteries has been improving according to my friends.

Quote:
1. What is the difference between Inverter Power and UPS Power. Is it just the voltage range and a more seamless change over?
It is the same thing, the biggest difference between a UPS and inverter is the former have very fast switching times. For e.g. I use APCs UPSes for my PCs and critical home electronics and the rest of the house runs off the inverter which even when set to "UPS" mode isn't quick enough to run the PC which resets during the switchover.

Quote:
2. What is the difference between UPS and static UPS?
I think they are the same thing. He may be referring to a line interactive UPS (corrects over and undervoltages and switches to battery when the power fails or if voltage is not in range) or an online UPS which supplies power to the end equipment via the batteries even when the mains is on. So, AC -->DC-->AC conversion. You can read more here:

Line-interactive vs On-line Network UPS Systems and Which Should You Choose?

Quote:
3. Will I be able to run an Aquaguard water purifier on the above system?
Yes, with a 4 battery setup, very easily. We run our Aquaguard using the twin battery 1500 VA inverter, and even a mixer/blender.

Quote:
4. Will I be able to run a 1hp water pump (5 to 10 minutes max) on the above system?
As @prowler said, most UPSes/inverters are not designed to take induction motor peak start up current. It will trip or blow a fuse. You get specific models for these loads the kinds that run refrigerators, ACs, water pumps etc. But they are more expensive.

Last edited by R2D2 : 5th July 2019 at 17:28.
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Old 5th July 2019, 21:15   #1371
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Exide Invatubular, the car experience has been flaky but the inverter tubular batteries are rock solid. About 10 years of experience with this brand with 1 x 150 AH from 2009-2013 followed by 2 x 200 AH since 2013 and still going strong.


As @prowler said, most UPSes/inverters are not designed to take induction motor peak start up current. It will trip or blow a fuse. You get specific models for these loads the kinds that run refrigerators, ACs, water pumps etc. But they are more expensive.

Hi R2D2 and Prowler,

Thanks a ton for your inputs. Much appreciated. It has cleared up a lot of doubts.

BTW, on asking the dealer the difference between Inverter and UPS, he said pretty much the same thing as you guys did (though not such a clear explanation) but also added an important point.
GST on Inverters is 28% but on UPS is only 18%!!
This is probably why a lot of Companies are now calling their systems UPS rather than Inverter.
Not sure though how true this is.

Thanks once again.

Regards,
SS
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Old 6th July 2019, 08:54   #1372
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Thanks R2D2.
On a related note, where are you getting your distilled water from?
Please look at this thread (Distilled Water : A scam running?)
Just took a look at my bottle of distilled water and saw sediment at the bottom.

Last edited by mvadg : 6th July 2019 at 08:56.
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Old 6th July 2019, 09:11   #1373
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvadg View Post
On a related note, where are you getting your distilled water from?
I get it from a reputed lab chemical supplier or from a pretty well known "manufacturer" (rather distiller) of distilled/deionised water

Quote:
Just took a look at my bottle of distilled water and saw sediment at the bottom.
In that case it is certainly not DW, don't use it as it could damage the batteries. DW water remains clear month after month year after year.

Ask around at battery shops and enquire where they get their supplies from. They will have the real thing.
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Old 6th July 2019, 10:13   #1374
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
I get it from a reputed lab chemical supplier or from a pretty well known "manufacturer" (rather distiller) of distilled/deionised...

Ask around at battery shops and enquire where they get their supplies from. They will have the real thing.
This was the bottle I bought from the dealer who replaced my Honda Aviator battery (Exide completely sealed glass matrix) . I fully expected it to be the real thing. So its a good thing I never top up my car batteries.(sealed anyway). A lab supplier quoted Rs 420 per 5 litres! BANGALORE members please suggest a reliable, reasonably priced source.
The depths to which we've fallen...
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Old 6th July 2019, 11:39   #1375
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzuki san View Post
I would like to go for Amaron as I have had good experiences with this brand in my cars. No idea about their Inverter batteries.

I've been using Amaron inverter [used to be called tribal back then,now they label simply Home UPS] for the past 10+ years now. Never had an issue with the inverter or batteries. Last battery that i changed was a flat plate one which lasted 8 odd years. Now I have Amaron Tall Tubular batteries [Amaron Current] at work and home. Workplace one has done service for about 6 years so far without a glitch. The newer tall tubular batteries fro Amaron 150 , 165 and 200 AH have a warranty of 36 months [flat replacement] + 18 months [pro rata basis]
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Old 6th July 2019, 17:14   #1376
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

I have a Luminous Zelio home UPS/Inverter with 150 AH tall tubular battery. When it is time to replace the battery can I choose a bigger battery (say 200 AH) or should stick to the same 150 AH?
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Old 6th July 2019, 21:47   #1377
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Isn't that a matter pf staying within the inverter's charging capacity? I think it should be stated in the manual.
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Old 7th July 2019, 17:00   #1378
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Isn't that a matter pf staying within the inverter's charging capacity? I think it should be stated in the manual.
+1 the recommended battery sizes are mentioned in the manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
I have a Luminous Zelio home UPS/Inverter with 150 AH tall tubular battery. When it is time to replace the battery can I choose a bigger battery (say 200 AH) or should stick to the same 150 AH?
The size of battery should be determined by 2 things:

a) Duration and frequency of outages
b) Inverter specifications. Check the manual. Most can use between 80-200 AH. This is determined by the charger circuit specifications.

If the 150 AH is serving your purpose then its no point spending more to buy a bigger battery. But then it doesn't hurt to have a larger capacity model, budget and inverter permitting.
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Old 9th July 2019, 01:13   #1379
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by WasavaTyres View Post
I've been using Amaron inverter [used to be called tribal back then,now they label simply Home UPS] for the past 10+ years now. Never had an issue with the inverter or batteries. Last battery that i changed was a flat plate one which lasted 8 odd years. Now I have Amaron Tall Tubular batteries [Amaron Current] at work and home. Workplace one has done service for about 6 years so far without a glitch. The newer tall tubular batteries fro Amaron 150 , 165 and 200 AH have a warranty of 36 months [flat replacement] + 18 months [pro rata basis]
Hey Wasava,

Thanks for the info.
I tried, unsuccessfully to source Amaron batteries here in Goa.
Not in stock was the general reply.

Regards,
SS
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Old 19th July 2019, 20:03   #1380
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

I was in the market today for replacing my ageing inverter battery with an Amazon tall tubular 150AH battery. The lowest quote I got was Rs11.4K after trading in my old battery. Hope the rate is normal.
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