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Old 26th February 2020, 14:35   #541
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Default Re: In Pursuit Of An Empathetic Car Dealer & A Sales Rep With Basic IQ!

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Old 26th February 2020, 14:37   #542
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Default Re: In Pursuit Of An Empathetic Car Dealer & A Sales Rep With Basic IQ!

My honest opinion, I would not pick up any of the above list. Save a bit more, wait for some time and get into Nexon/XUV300/Venue territory.
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Old 26th February 2020, 14:42   #543
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Default Re: In Pursuit Of An Empathetic Car Dealer & A Sales Rep With Basic IQ!

It seems like you are inclined towards a petrol AT. With 90% city driving, it wouldn't be a bad decision at all to go with an automatic. Since you have budget of 10L, I would personally not suggest an AMT. That leaves us with-

1. Baleno
2. Jazz
3. Amaze

The Baleno has the best engine and feature set. Would request you to test drive a good example from some other dealer and if possible drive the Jazz right after that. The difference in the peppiness of the engine will be easily visible.

With that being said, the Jazz is no slouch either and I would choose it over the Amaze for its more premium interiors, better build and in all probability, it should be safer as well when compared to the Amaze due to its global underpinning.

Between the Jazz and the Baleno, it is the Baleno for its better engine and features, not to forget Maruti A.S.S. and its the Jazz for the better build, paddle shifters and arguably, better safety. I would personally choose the Baleno for its better engine, features being added bonus.

If you are open to buying a diesel, you may want to check Ameo TDI DSG stocks as they were going for a 2L discount. Though I would personally stay away from the DQ200 gearbox. The Ameo diesel manual is still a good choice if you can compromise on the rear space.

Aspire and Amaze are the other options but with the removal of SYNC3 from the Aspire, the car just doesn't feel like a complete package, the engine is great though, only next to the soon to be axed VW 1.5 TDi.

The Amaze diesel CVT might actually make the most economical and practical sense as you get a smooth automatic with the mileage of a diesel. With 1500 km monthly running, diesel will still make a lot of sense in your case.

Other options are-

1. Brezza VXI AT

2. Venue S DCT

The Brezza is one of the certified safe Marutis and even the VXI is decently equipped. The OTR will be close to 11.5 though. The Venue S DCT has all the features you need but packs a turbo-petrol engine and quick shifting DCT. Some people have reported DCT over-heating warnings in the Venue and the Seltos though. OTR should be around 11L.

In my opinion-

Ameo TDi Manual>Venue S DCT>Baleno

But for your case, the Amaze Diesel CVT makes the most sense.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 26th February 2020 at 19:05. Reason: Edited: 1500 km daily to 1500 km monthly
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Old 26th February 2020, 14:50   #544
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Default Re: In Pursuit Of An Empathetic Car Dealer & A Sales Rep With Basic IQ!

Maybe look at buying the Glanza from Toyota.
see if the Yaris can be in your budget.

I have a great experience with the Grand i10 CVT, it;s definitely not a fast car, but very convenient to drive in the city and okay-ish on the highway. Dealership made a hash of the delivery schedules, but i just wanted the car and not deal with them ever

I have a good experience with Ford too

I have mentioned the above wrt car and dealership.

Last edited by neofromcapone : 26th February 2020 at 14:52. Reason: typo
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Old 26th February 2020, 15:24   #545
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Default Re: In Pursuit Of An Empathetic Car Dealer & A Sales Rep With Basic IQ!

Thanks for the suggestions, I am looking for a sub4 car if possible because it will only be driven by me and may have a copassenger at times. The Venue/Nexon/Brezza options are pricier. I do not want to spend more than 10 Lacs. The Baleno somehow did not feel right, I forgot to mention that I really liked the space it offered but somehow the car feels very light and not built as well as say even the current swift. Thanks for your inputs. Still looking out for options and the Jazz may be discontinued + felt much slower than the rest when I drove a friend's CVT Jazz. Also the Amaze diesel would be too expensive + there is no reason I feel, for me to pick a diesel and pay extra as my usage is limited.

Last edited by TejasV : 26th February 2020 at 15:37. Reason: typos, added a detailed response
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Old 26th February 2020, 15:45   #546
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Default Re: In Pursuit Of An Empathetic Car Dealer & A Sales Rep With Basic IQ!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TejasV View Post
I do not want to spend more than 10 Lacs....my usage is limited.
Why not pick a pre-owned Automatic Toyota Corolla Altis? I'm seeing 6 year old ~50,000 kilometer run examples here in Chennai at least, with asking prices hovering around 9 to 10 lakhs. If you go in for something like this, make sure it is a Toyota serviced machine with service records and if a Toyota service center can do a 100 point evaluation of the machine for you (for a fee, of course) - nothing like it!
This is a car which beats lesser sedans in its ride quality and overall performance. Since your usage isn't high, its lower fuel efficiency wouldn't matter.
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Old 26th February 2020, 15:58   #547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TejasV View Post
At some level, I believe it is one contributing reason for the fledgling car sales. With this recent experience (which could be a one-off/region specific occurrence), it felt as if the brands/dealerships just don't care about the customers anymore(at least they should try when somebody is buying) - yet complain about low sales.
Yeah, we all want a good buying experience and expect the dealer also to show some enthusiasm on the sales. And its true for everything we want to buy.

The experience you had is predominantly same across cities and across brands. Only a few SA's/ Dealers are genuinely interested in completing a sale and exceed your expectations.

When I bought my Jazz in 2015, I had contrasting experiences with a SA in Sundaram Honda and a SA? Couch Potato in Capital Honda. Though Capital Honda was near to my home, I, still went on with the deal at Sundaram Honda. SA from Sundaram was dialing me every day and was keeping me posted for a TD of Jazz Diesel. (TN RTO hasn't approved the Diesel variant and so the TD's were hard to get in the initial days). Whereas, the SA from Capital Honda showed me a Amaze Diesel and said its the same engine and I have to imagine a Jazz shell on it.


On your second question,

I would recommend you the Jazz CVT (P) as you get a brilliant engine and a car with excellent driving dynamics. Check for the thread from Mahajan Sir's on his Jazz.
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Old 26th February 2020, 18:01   #548
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I am sure you will receive useful and wise advice from fellow members on which car to choose. I'll try and address the other part of your thread about the empathetic dealer and sales man with elementary IQ.

First my conclusion and then my reasoning. It is my belief, and I may be wrong, that the OEMs are simply not investing time and training with the dealers and more importantly the dealers men on product knowledge, selling skills, listening to the customer, picking up on the unspoken thought and knowing what the others in the team are up to. It is probable that the OEMs middle and senior staff simply don't visit the field. The officers want to hide behind their desks and the dealers.

Having spent some years of my early life as a regional sales manager for a truck company this is my assessment. My beat was the old Madhya Pradesh State and our branch offices used to be housed inside the premises of the dealer. It ensured we worked together, got to know each other (even if we didn't like each other!!) and went on field visits together. And most importantly learnt from each other. I think these car OEM executives are scared to step out. Or maybe I am just an old rascal doing his, " ek hamara zamana tha"
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Old 26th February 2020, 19:18   #549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post

Having spent some years of my early life as a regional sales manager for a truck company this is my assessment. My beat was the old Madhya Pradesh State and our branch offices used to be housed inside the premises of the dealer. It ensured we worked together, got to know each other (even if we didn't like each other!!) and went on field visits together. And most importantly learnt from each other. I think these car OEM executives are scared to step out. Or maybe I am just an old rascal doing his, " ek hamara zamana tha"
Hello Narayan Sir,

Thanks for your insightful response. What shocks me is that people selling mobile phones or even smaller value products like maybe clothing are aware of their product if not the competition. There is a total lack of empathy and accountability at multiple levels at most car dealerships I have seen.

At the same time, I understand a little of their side of the story too. For example VW had zero cars at their showrooms and the sales rep said that was the scene since Dec 2019. They only will get the next lot in June when BS6 kicks in. I shudder at the overheads the dealership has to take care of for 6 months with zero sales. Doesn't help that they were not doing great to start with. It's easy for me to complain but the situation has become messed up at many levels.

The sales reps have turned into meet&greet MBA grads and interns from local colleges who just are not driven, or incentivised to make a sale.

Same with Seltos and Kia too. The reps at both major showrooms at Kondapur & Jubilee Hills just didn't want to talk if you weren't there to book. They were pompous about the fact that they are selling so much, but do not realise it's the product that is doing the heavy lifting there.

Guess there is no simple solution to this - we as car lover's are forced to compromise on the car buying experience as we love a certain car and go-ahead even if everything else is bad. But what about people who don't know as much? I think that's a major reason why Maruti wins, their Arena dealerships have seasoned reps with years of experience and for a newbie looking out for a car, all you need is a little hand holding to take the plunge. I really wish other brands could do that too, as in my case - I really just want a no-fuss petrol automatic hatch and would have bought any car if the dealership experience gave me a nudge to book.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 16:17   #550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TejasV View Post
It is as much about the cars as it is about the dealership experience, especially when they options as so varied. With this recent experience (which could be a one-off/region specific occurrence), it felt as if the brands/dealerships just don't care about the customers anymore(at least they should try when somebody is buying) - yet complain about low sales.

Also, what would you buy if you were in my shoes?
You are quite right that the dealership experience does matter a lot because you go in with an expectation to get good service and being ignored or having to walk out just spoils the day.

7 years ago when I was searching for my first (new) car, the first showroom we visited was the Maruti showroom nearby. We were very well treated and were shown and informed about all desired cars. Similar experience at the tata showroom. The salesman seemed genuinely interested and answered all queries. He even showed us the newly launched Storm and offered a test ride even though we were interested in the D90 Vista only.

Similarly when we went to evaluate the Mahindra offerings, on just a phone enquiry, Sahyadri motors brought the test car to my office at my convenient timing and gave a test ride to both me and my FIL.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 17:20   #551
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Default Re: In Pursuit Of An Empathetic Car Dealer & A Sales Rep With Basic IQ!

Grand i10 comes with a torque converter (TQC) and not a CVT. The i10 Nios comes with AMT now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neofromcapone View Post
I have a great experience with the Grand i10 CVT, it;s definitely not a fast car, but very convenient to drive in the city and okay-ish on the highway.
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Old 20th July 2020, 22:06   #552
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Default First time Buyer Dilemma - Need Inputs

Dear BHPians,

I am a newbee here and am in this usual dilemma that most first timers face. Need to buy a new car for the first time and faced with that “not so sure” kind of feeling!!

The confusion for me is more on the brands rather than the products themselves considering the service experience stories!

I completed my learning lessons before lockdown and due to lockdown could not go ahead and purchase. But now it became a need and go ahead with it.

Here are my requirements:

Safety - Buildquality + features (+ncap rating too). That leaves maruti (except probably brezza and s-cross) and other entry level hatchbacks.

Service experience - This is very important for a first timer and this is where I am a bit concerned about tata motors.

Comfort - Decent rear seat space for 2 adults with average height of 5.5. Would be great if arm rests are available as elders may find it comfy for long journeys.

Hatchback and Manual- I think hatchback is good for first time buyer but I am open to suggestions. Definitely manual.

Usage and Mileage - I dont plan on using for daily commute but covid situation may change it. Office is around 15km so to-and-fro will be stressful in traffic. I will try to reduce this daily routine by opting for work from home but the point is, I may use for daily city drive. Definitely will go for weekend highway drives, visit rural areas, village roads with rough packages, and sometimes may be ghats (although its rare).

Fun to Drive - Frankly I just went for classes and have not experienced on what is fun factor in car driving. I guess it evolves but having seen reviews and research, I guess Ford gives this and Figo/Freestyle are good even in petrol.

No used car - Newbee and given covid situation, not sure if i can take this chance. New car would be a peace of mind but pointers that differ are welcome.

Budget - 8.5L max OTR

When I did the research, I see some choices

Ford Figo/Freestyle - Top trims offer 6 airbags and freestyle having ARP, TCS even in titanium. Ford is appreciated in many forums for driving dynamics and now service is also good. But, the top trims I feel are overpriced and does not give decent boot space. Probably I can live with it but they are still somewhat inferior to Tata (correct me if i am wrong and that will make me elated) in safety such as ncap (figo/freestyle 3 and altroz 5) and build. I was shown by a friend the difference between the door “thuds” sometime ago in both show rooms on the sameday (thud may not be an indicator for quality but still, I am a rookie and your inputs will clear).

Altroz - Number 1 in safety and decent in space plus features. However, I am very concerned about tata service and that “not sure” feel again. Lot of service stories are not on the good side. It may be case based but still, I am a bit nervous about it.

Honda - Only Amaze fits in budget (jazz overshoots) and has 4-star ncap and service quality is appreciated too in general. Again, not superior to tata in safety as such and not superior to ford in driving dynamics.

VW Polo - Same not so good service image and will rear seat comfort and space be a problem for elders? 2 people in back is my requirement. Every forum is talking a lot about TSI highline plus but how about the lesser variants? will it be too low on power (75bhp and 95nm) for highway drives and eventually one will feel the need?

Hyundai Elite i20 - Hassle free service and lot of bling features but I think its not necessarily superior to ford in safety or service and definitely not superior to altroz in safety (i20 is also 3 star in ncap). Definitely priced high and i only get base variant in my budget.

Will 3 pot vs 4 pot make a big difference ( hyundai and honda are 4-pot)? Please suggest.

My heart says go for Ford. Product wise Altroz is good too given the 5-star ncap and decent features but uneasy feel on the service. Will I be making a mistake if I choose ford?

Please throw in pointers that hopefully clear my confusion.
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Old 20th July 2020, 23:11   #553
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Default Re: First time Buyer Dilemma - Need Inputs

Given that you are looking a definite highway / long drive car, safety and that 3-pot/4-pot engine should be the biggest factors that are hard to evaluate in a short test-drive.

If elders would be occupying the rear seats, then comfort of ingress/egress would also be somewhat important for them.

All the options you are evaluating are capable ones and it is more about matching your requirements and priority to the vehicle. Tata's A.S.S. is not as bad as it is made out to be and the others won't give you a royal throne in comparison.

Ultimately you will have to live with the vehicle and service center visits will be far and few in between.

Take your family / regular occupants out for a test drive in each of the vehicles you are considering; more often than not you will find your answer when you drive "that perfect vehicle for you".

If you are a newbie w.r.t buying and owning a car, I would recommend not to rule out the used car route. The learning experience of owning/maintaining a car teaches you a lot over the first few months and you wouldn't want to get that at the cost of a brand new car. Plus the depreciation of a used car will be insignificant.
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Old 20th July 2020, 23:27   #554
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There is hardly any difference between a hatchback or a compact sedan or a compact crossover from a beginner’s prospective. You get used to whatever you are driving. I learnt driving on a Scorpio. Secondly, note that Tata provides prepaid maintenance packs that take care of EVERYTHING. I have 3 year/100k km gold AMC on my Hexa. Vehicle is closing in on 90000km, and my total service cost has been zero. Beat that. Similarly, modern day Ford cars also have low service costs.

Since you expect occasional and family use for your car, usage will not be much and things like FE or ultra lightness of controls won’t really be so critical. This also means that service costs shouldn’t be a deciding factor. You’ll be getting one service done every year irrespective of your choice.

If I were you, I’ll add 50k to the budget and get a Skoda Rapid Rider variant. This is the best value you can get for your money. A solid, safe, sturdy and comfortable car with a cracker of an engine and all basic equipment. Drives like it belongs to a full segment above the cars you have listed, which it actually is. It is an ideal car for highway drives with family. This car is the steal of the year. Skoda also offers maintenance packs. You can always add things like alloys later on.

Strictly from your short list, I’ll pick Altroz. And will then direct you to the Nexon XZ petrol manual which costs about the same after discounts, simply for that sweet sweet turbo petrol. And the extra ground clearance.

Last edited by Shreyans_Jain : 20th July 2020 at 23:45.
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Old 21st July 2020, 01:01   #555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinn View Post
I am a newbee here and am in this usual dilemma that most first timers face. Need to buy a new car for the first time and faced with that “not so sure” kind of feeling!!


Here are my requirements:

Safety - ...
Service experience - ...
Comfort - ...
Hatchback and Manual- ...
Fun to Drive - ...
I was also shopping for my first car 6 months ago with similar requirements in a similar budget, i.e. a safe fun to drive petrol manual. I went with Tata Nexon BS4. Let me share what made me decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinn View Post
Will 3 pot vs 4 pot make a big difference ( hyundai and honda are 4-pot)? Please suggest.
In case of refinement/NVH, Yes. 3 cylinders are noisy. I have been asked if my petrol Nexon is a diesel by a Maruti Swift owner.

In case of performance, 3 cylinders are supposed to have a weak low end and I have felt that in my nexon. Reviews of altroz also suggests the same. Below 1500 rpm, you don't have much grunt and you will need to work the gears. But once you get the hang of keeping the revs in sweet spot, it is not too much of a bother.

I have test driven the Honda Amaze and felt that it was more suited to people who drive slow and smooth. The car is quiet and there is enough power in low rpms to drive sedately. But only after 2000 rpm, you really feel the surge. The steering also felt light compared to Nexon and Beat. From what I have heard from reviews, Hyundai 1.2s are also similarly lethargic and their steering is also light. Maruti's k12 engine is good though, I opted not to check out the ignis due to the same safety factor you mentioned.

3 cyllinder engines are noisy but the tata revotron and ford dragon are said to be good performers. In the case of Altroz, extra weight could be a downside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinn View Post
My heart says go for Ford. Product wise Altroz is good too given the 5-star ncap and decent features but uneasy feel on the service. Will I be making a mistake if I choose ford?

Please throw in pointers that hopefully clear my confusion.
Since the first car owned by family was Chevrolet, we did have enough share of poor after sales experience. While I was considering for a new car, even though I liked the Ford Figo blu, the uncertainty of Ford in Indian market then (Before the JV with Mahindra was announced) and with the experience with Chevrolet was a deciding factor. I decide to go for a Indian or more established brand which won't leave our shores soon. Also the ford figo was on a diet and shaving off fat to compete with the swift. The body shell was rated unstable in NCAP and didn't inspire confidence in me.

I haven't driven a ford yet, but from the Maruti, Hyundai's and above mentioned honda amaze, Tata Nexon's driving dynamics is not that bad. The steering has a nice heft to it and high speed stablity and braking is confidence inspiring. See the Team-BHP official altroz review. (Tata Altroz : Official Review)

Coming to your ford vs Tata problem, I felt that both are about equivalent in service experience. I feel that service qualms are more affected on an area to area and shop to shop basis. Do inquire with other users in your area regarding service experience. Here's my experience with Tata,
  • After booking the car, It took about a week and half for the car to be delivered after my PDI. I did opt for accessory package and vinyl flooring, teflon and underbody coating was provided free of cost. Hence it might take that time, and I'm just impatient.
  • I had to wait about 4 hours for my car wash (car was on queue) on first service before I called it quits and told them I would do it myself. I gave them pass on it as it was post-lockdown scenario.
  • On first service, I have requested Tata for their genuine foglight, day/night irvm and rear parcel tray and service manager said they will place in the order and will call me up once items arrive. It's been 2 months since and no calls received yet. I haven't followed up either as I went back to my native place post lockdown.
  • After delivery and service, I have received calls from Tata requesting feedback. When I marked average for something (I think it was communication as there had been many delays in getting hold of the showroom guys after booking ), I received a callback from Tata asking what the problem was and promised they would address it. Don't know if it had any effect whatsoever.
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