[volkman10]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Honda Cars scales down operations with another VRS round.

Is HCIL contemplating something drastic on the lines of Ford or General Motors ?
---

Exodus at Honda Cars continues as another top executive quits

Navid Talib has resigned as head of operations manufacturing and planning planning strategy at Honda Cars India.



Link

[shibulijack]

One of my friends who used to work at Honda told me that a huge chunk of Honda employees are moving on to their next play, with most of them moving to MG! Apparently, there is clear unrest among the employees and they are just as clueless as we are. God forbid if Honda decides to shut shop, I sincerely hope that the employees are not left high and dry.

[Atr]

I have been working with Honda for the past 6 years. My experience has been pretty good. Had, I mean. Till 2019. I’m yet to understand why the company has gone downhill all of a sudden. No product conceptions, no innovations, nothing new. Except for fake promises and assurances.

First they introduced the facelifted Honda City. It garnered quite a fan following. Of course, the engine takes all the credit. And Honda introduced the DIGIPAD 1.0 in the New Honda City. It was followed by the Honda WR-V launched on 14th March 2017. Honestly speaking, I’ve always felt that it has and will continue to be a half hearted product. Honda knew they could not go wrong with their I-VTEC and I-DTEC engines, so they just lengthened the wheelbase of the Jazz and made a slight change in looks to introduce the WR-V.

Loyal Honda customers were on the lookout for a compact SUV from Honda’s stable and they kind of adjusted to whatever was dished out to them. As of now, “competitors” of WR-V do not even acknowledge its presence. It’s as if they don’t consider the WR-V as their competitor.

Fast forward to 2018, and Honda launched the 2nd generation Amaze which was an excellent product in itself. It boasted of a ground clearance of 172mm (there’s some doubts on this) on the petrol and a 170mm clearance on the diesel. And interestingly, it had addressed an issue no one had ever brought up. The Air Conditioning effect. Great engines, but horrible cooling in the Jazz, WR-V and the old Amaze. I’ve had personal experiences when we used the demo vehicle and my personal car to check the cooling(I own a 2008 manufactured Maruti Alto) and imagine my surprise when my Alto cooled faster and cooler than the old Amaze. The new generation Amaze had everything perfect. And as already mentioned I’ve had slight doubts over the ground clearance.

There was another incident when we had visited a customer’s house and there was a huge speed breaker near his residence. We went over in his car, an Alto, and it cleared the obstacle perfectly. Back to the Amaze, with the same load and bang! There was a huge scrape at the bottom. Needless to say, the customer was dissatisfied and chose a Baleno instead.

I was very excited when I found out that the new Honda Jazz had been launched abroad and I had sincerely hoped that the Jazz which was in dire need of a generation change would get one. But all hopes were dashed when Honda introduced a whitewashed version of the old Honda Jazz and later on introduced a sunroof. It was strange. I mean, if you wanted the fog lights you would have to buy the top end version. There are no fog lights in a vehicle which has its on road prices exceeding 8.50 lakhs.

It was then that I started looking at Honda in other markets as well. Honda Indonesia has 12 products, Honda Singapore has 7 products, Honda Thailand has 9 and Honda Malaysia has 10 products on their offering. My point being, if you are looking at the geographical area, I would like to understand why we have 4 products on the offering. And I am really tired and exasperated at their false assurances of launching an SUV in the near future.

I am also sharing some of the documents which were circulated to us to counter the competition. By competition I don’t mean Amaze vs Dzire. It was actually Amaze vs Sonet. I am unaware if any of my colleagues have used this but I, out of shame, have never used this document. They don’t treat their employees properly. It’s as if people like us are expendable. Maybe that’s the reason why we are most ill treated. And I have also stumbled upon the news that all dealers have been instructed to clear all stocks before the fiscal year end. And there are no models which Honda plans to introduce to India.

This maybe a rude awakening but a lot goes on in the service department nowadays. I have come upon people who have been over charged with maintenance costs and have expressed loads of disappointment of the degradation of service quality and vehicle standards.
Maybe this is a bell warning us that Honda is withdrawing soon.

[Atr]

Honda Amaze vs Kia Sonet.pdf

This is what is being circulated to us to counter the "competition". Honda needs to be reminded that they have the WR-V which has also been pitched against the Kia Sonet. If the OEM doesn't consider its own products good enough for the competition, how on earth do you expect your customers to procure the same ??

It's laughable and embarrassing with this coming from Honda.

[SchumiFan]

Originally Posted by Atr

It's laughable and embarrassing with this coming from Honda.

There is no S variant for diesel CVT. Does Honda know their products themselves? I will do my part to advise anyone not to buy any of their products until they clarify their stand on their future in India. City is their prime model now. CR-V is gone, so is the Civic.

Their showrooms are deserted and their sales executives are barely interested. Can't have the premium attitude when you sell not so premium products.

3L difference between petrol and diesel automatic for VX variant effectively rules out any sales for that model which already has an anaemic engine.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by Atr

Attachment 2248700

This is what is being circulated to us to counter the "competition".

I'm not even going to comment publicly on most of that, I'm just laughing at it. They've literally combed through every point in the reviews and found every little detail where it's been suggested that the Amaze is better.

I never even thought the Amaze was competition to the Sonet, I ranked it more with the Kiger, Magnite and Punch, but that's a story for another day.

What I want to point out however is that Honda's not allowed to communicate the South African Amaze's Global NCAP rating to Indian customers, and they're also supposed to make clear the combined adult and child occupant protection rating and shouldn't advertise just one of them.


(Global NCAP's publication guidelines at least for older Latin NCAP tests)

Perhaps Honda wouldn't be pleased if Kia used the Amaze's rear armrest issues (in the child protection dynamic test) against them?


About that 4-star adult protection rating, joke's on them. If they really wanted to advertise it in India, they should have sponsored a test on an Indian car anyway.

While crash test performance might be similar for both, they actually have a chance at grabbing that fifth star for India in case it manages to pass the R95 side impact test and the passenger seatbelt reminder meets requirements. Why? Because the Indian car gets a passenger-side seatbelt reminder, which the African car didn't, which disqualified it from five stars. The offset test score was enough for five stars.

(It's probably not a good idea to say the above on the public forum, because if someone at Honda reads it they might start telling customers the Indian Amaze is a five star car or something of the sort)

I actually think that if someone can drag Honda Cars India out of this pit they've fallen into, it might be Global NCAP. People just aren't convinced that they're engineering them like they used to, and no amount of talk of having 'internal standards' will convince customers like an independent, third-party rating will.

Surely that hypothetical (if possible) five-star adult protection rating for the Amaze will get Honda back in the news again? (And no, Honda, four stars won't cut it anymore) No foreign manufacturer has yet achieved a five star adult protection rating under Safer Cars for India and I'm sure the market will take it very positively if Honda becomes the first. The race is already on and I think Honda should definitely consider participating voluntarily (if they don't leave by then).

On another note, criticising the diesel Sonet's torque-converter for not being as smooth as a CVT takes things to a new level, even for Honda.

Also, are you sure you're allowed to share this publicly and it's not under an embargo? I would have thought it was quite dangerous to do so.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by Atr

This is what is being circulated to us

Originally Posted by ron178

Also, are you sure you're allowed to share this publicly and it's not under an embargo?

The fine print at the bottom of each page says:

Honda Internal Training Document. Not to be circulated outside

As much as I appreciate you sharing this valuable document, are you sure it's wise to share it on a public forum?

[Moto$apien]

Honda'ah has lost much of its Mojo because of confused marketing and product mix.

No aspirational products, no engine transmission commonality.

They should work on the glitz bit and price their offerings sensibly to come back in contention of the today's buyers.

With so many passionate Honda fans, the right product will definitely sell.





120bhp WR-V Diesel CVT with panaromic roof, 17" wheels and City's interiors pls

[eccentric]

Originally Posted by ron178

The fine print at the bottom of each page says:

As much as I appreciate you sharing this valuable document, are you sure it's wise to share it on a public forum?

I see nothing wrong in sharing this here. No such engineering intricacies of the i-VTEC or the i-DTEC are exposed. Are the Engineering Drawings or Bill of Materials or Production Plan or Technical Delivery Conditions been encapsulated in that document to be termed as confidential and not to be circulated? The slides don't even have an official Honda logo and seems to be done by a newly joined Intern, to say the least.

This document reveals how pathetic the market research of Honda is! Just piecing together data from Autocar India and classifying it as, "Internal Training Document" is nothing but a joke, IMHO.

Again, Honda must be ashamed to call themselves as reliable, anymore. We have engine mount problems in their Amaze which they haven't rectified yet.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post5202747 (Engine mount problems in the Honda Amaze)

As long as Honda relies on useless media junks, they would be scripting such valueless articles while incurring heavy losses year after year.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/86673115.cms

[Atr]

Originally Posted by ron178

Also, are you sure you're allowed to share this publicly and it's not under an embargo? I would have thought it was quite dangerous to do so.

No, that I wasn't aware of. How can I get it down ??

[car_guy1998]

When I went to give our 2014 City Diesel for 1.2L Kms service yesterday, and since the service advisors were busy attending other customers, I thought why not check the new Honda City and while checking the new Honda City, I asked the sales guy regarding the future of Honda in India.

He told that Honda will not be closing the operations in India in the near future and he apparently told that Honda might be launching 3-4 models next year, i.e, a City-based hatchback as well as a crossover, which will be a competitor for Creta/Seltos and Taigun/Kushaq as well as MG Astor, and City Hybrid.

And, when I asked him about losses faced by Honda, he told that the losses happened due to semiconductor shortage.

And, as per the SA, around 5-6 sales guys had left the job at Honda dealership and joined at Kia.

By hearing this, I feel Honda should really focus on getting new models in India, or else, they will be having the same fate as Ford or Chevrolet. If they are really keen on ceasing the operations in India, then we might have to sell off our Honda City and get a car from different brand.

We were planning to get another Honda City and that too a Petrol CVT, as the replacement for our City Diesel. Although I love the present gen Honda City, the bleak future and lacklusture attitude of Honda made me think.

[W.A.G.7]

Originally Posted by Atr

It's laughable and embarrassing with this coming from Honda.

What?!!! This is one of the most atrocious documents that I have seen. Surely, you can do much much better than that, Honda! This is really a laughable attempt by Honda. After reading the document, I feel the way forward for them is "Exit" only. They have so many competent cars; as well as engine and gearbox combos around the world. I wonder what's stopping them from launching those in India.

I just wish someone at Honda really reads all the feedback and the opinions quickly; else they are going to be wiped out very soon from India.

[Nikhil Beke]

he apparently told that Honda might be launching 3-4 models next year, i.e, a City-based hatchback as well as a crossover, which will be a competitor for Creta/Seltos and Taigun/Kushaq as well as MG Astor, and City Hybrid.

Haven't we heard enough about Ford launching Ecosport facelift (with that atrocious front grill) and Endeavour bi-turbo just before Ford disappeared? Same happened with Chevrolet, with CEO herself claiming massive investments just a year before they ultimately folded. Would be sceptical about taking words of a SA seriously on this.

[Axe77]

This is an interesting video by zigwheels dedicated precisely to this concern of Honda’s future. Personally I would definitely like a 2.0 innings for Honda in India. Partly because in the past I have loved their cars (we’ve owned three Hondas for a collective 175 - 180,000 clicks approx and the fact that vibrant competition and multiple brands in the country are good for us - the consumers.

https://youtu.be/WUKtNoWPEYg

[ampere]

Given the decline of diesel, Honda if they push on the right product strategy they can surely come back big time. I think last few years have been bad thanks to shift to X-Overs and diesels. And both were not a big plus for Honda. Though they came back with a diesel.

Now that diesel is almost off thanks to BS6, they should focus on their core strength. Another point they need to realise, there is no escape to getting a good x-over to India. We have been discussing HRV / Vezel almost a decade now! Honda can't just ride on Jazz alone. So definitely a strong X-over, a strong I20 competition is a must.

City will continue to sell with good features and space and that sweet iVtec.