[man_and_machine]

3rd row seats not front facing, the lines are more upright, and the rear looks boxy. Looks like a Sumo gold version of the safari. The interiors are visible, but the seats seem to have been made a bit more upmarket.

I am wondering now, what is the market that Safari will fill in now? The same market that the older safari did? That would be a loss for Tata, the upper and lower markets are taken by Mahindra and the storme (atleast from the initial feels ) does not have anything special to take them on.

I am watching this thread closely, but will it entice me to make a buy? not sure!

[mayuresh]

Current Safari prices moved Northward today again on their website by 8 to 10
thousand. Post budget rise I suppose.

Since auto expo this is 2nd (or may be 3rd) rise in prices of current version.

Becoming increasingly curious where exactly Storme is going to be placed or are
they thinking of withdrawing current model when they launch Storme.

[mercedised]

Originally Posted by jkdas

Local TASS said their guys got trained and hence it should be coming soon.

Yep! Same here, the mechanics of TASS at which I get the service told me that they got training 2 months ago and the version of Safari had a integrated center screen (on dashboard).

[vijaythacker]

I was at the TASS to get my indica serviced, both the owner and SA are my good friends, while chatting on a cup of tea, they confirmed that new safari is almost ready with launch,though no confirm dates given yet but would be launched soon is what they told me.Hopefully soon.

[mpescatori]

Originally Posted by condor

So it was possible to sell it without the side-facing seats ?

India specific ? Does EU follow India-style norms, or US style norms (gas guzzlers attract higher taxes) ?

Allow me to provide my small contribution.

EU does not need to follow US norms, as many EU norms are actually much more stringent than US norms (i.e., halogen headlamps which are replaceable when they burn out, as opposed to sealed beam lamps where you must replace the entire unit).

The 2.2 DICOR Safari was phased out because Tata failed to meet the exacting Euro5 regulation.
All unsold Safaris were registered by 31 December 2010 and sold in 2011 as "Zero mileage company-owned".

Furthermore, 1 January 2011 was the watershed date by which side-facing seats were outlawed, so Tata was late on schedule, again.
The reason was passenger safety: all seats must be facing forward in order to allow for seatbelts to function without posing a risk to 3rd row passengers (i.e. lateral whiplash)

I'm sorry to say Tata lost a lot of customers with these two failures to adapt to EU norms, and Mahindra, Skoda (Yeti), Dacia (Duster), and Uaz (Patriot) won the low-cost 4x4 market.

Having bought Land Rover, Tata already had all the expertise, engineering and know-how it needed in Gaydon (Land Rover HQ),
all they had to do was copy&paste the Discovery's forward-facing 3rd row seats.

Hopefully Tata will be back on the EU market with an improved, Euro5 version of its 2200cc engine.
May I also add, the 5-speed G76 gearbox may be strong and reliable, but when the competition offer 6-speed manual, with a six-/seven-speed sequential automatic as option,
a 5-speed manual is less than adequate.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by mpescatori

May I also add, the 5-speed G76 gearbox may be strong and reliable, but when the competition offer 6-speed manual, with a six-/seven-speed sequential automatic as option,
a 5-speed manual is less than adequate.

Thanks for the info.

Tata had displayed an Aria automatic with a 156 bhp version of the 2.2 Dicor mated to a six speed auto tranny. There was also a new six speed manual transmission on display.

Whether Tata will fit these into the Storme is a different question altogether!!

[ajay0612]

Originally Posted by mpescatori

Furthermore, 1 January 2011 was the watershed date by which side-facing seats were outlawed, so Tata was late on schedule, again.
The reason was passenger safety: all seats must be facing forward in order to allow for seatbelts to function without posing a risk to 3rd row passengers (i.e. lateral whiplash)

Thanks for this info. It got me out of of dilemma on my next vehicle purchase :-). Only this thing (front facing seats) would have saved Safari. Now it is headed Aria's way.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by condor

Correct. So the side-facing seats was not a show stopper in selling the Safari there.

Please read mpescatori's comment about safety regulation regarding side facing third row seats.

I am not that crazy to make up stories about safety regulations in Europe.

[condor]

@4x4Addict - the difference there was - he gave an explanation for more than just the side-facing seats

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by condor

@4x4Addict - the difference there was - he gave an explanation for more than just the side-facing seats

Side-facing seats are a show stopper in the EU. That 4x4Addict didn't have the other info is immaterial.

Anyway, the Storme without front facing seats in the last row will definitely impact consumer decision, because front facing seats are more practical not to mention safer than side facing ones. It looks like a minor change that should be included in the India specific version, IMHO.

[condor]

Originally Posted by VeluM

Side-facing seats are a show stopper in the EU. That 4x4Addict didn't have the other info is immaterial.

The Euro-5 norms would be the show-stopper, well ahead of the side-facing seats. Between the two, it would be easier to change the side-facing seats to front facing. But moving from Euro-3 to Euro-5 (at the time they had to stop selling there) would have been too much. Tata has met BS-IV, but BS-V would probably need a new engine itself.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by condor

But moving from Euro-3 to Euro-5 (at the time they had to stop selling there) would have been too much.

They were required to shift from Euro-IV to Euro V, not from Euro-III to Euro-V. Europe went Euro IV w.e.f. i January 2005 and Euro-V w.e.f. 1 January 2010.

Originally Posted by condor

Tata has met BS-IV, but BS-V would probably need a new engine itself.

Tata 2.2 Dicor engine started life as a Euro-IV engine, so coming out with a Euro-V version shouldn't be a major problem.

The reason Tata didn't bother to come out with a Euro-V version and forward facing seats was that export sales form an insignificant portion (about 5%) of Tata's Indian vehicle production and European sales even less. Had Tata been exporting say 25% of Safari's production to Europe they sure would have been quicker on this front.

[condor]

Originally Posted by directinjection

Tata 2.2 Dicor engine started life as a Euro-IV engine, so coming out with a Euro-V version shouldn't be a major problem.

But they didnt/have not yet done so. Hopefully the Storme will be BS-V ?

.. export sales form an insignificant portion (about 5%) .. . Had Tata been exporting say 25% of Safari's production to Europe they sure would have been quicker on this front.

Agree. This could be the reason for not pursuing things. But a gap in product availability will mean having to re-establish themselves almost from scratch.

Let's see how things go.

[4x4addict]

Eitherway, I am glad that mpescatori has cleared the air. Many people believe that Safari is a hot selling item in europe. They only sell a handful and compete purely on price and nothing else. It will now be difficult for Tata to compete purely on price alone.

[Thar4x4]

Safari storme is still in testing, spotted it on Pune Banglore highway near Khandala last Friday, when I inquired with driver he said its marlin not Safari :P