[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by sudev

Eeerrrr...I made the track plan and sure did drive the vehicle a lot during four days there.

Since I also did Yeti drive experiences in past and drove Outlander through hills a bit I would say

Duster
Grand Vitara
Outlander
Yeti

Ground clearance, VFM, fuel type, cost of spares and service, availability of spares, on road costs, economy in running, speed and handling capability are factors in my personal rating.

But only GV has low ratio box.

While this may be your rating, I am unable to understand how you can rate the Outlander and if it comes to that, the Vitara higher than the Yeti, given the specific parameters outlined.
It would be nice if you can share the figures which caused such a poor showing for the Yeti, which in my opinion will easily outshine the Outlander for sure and even the Vitara which was never successful either.

[sudev]

@Shankar purely from going off road GV is better.

If one was to consider agility, handling and on road driving Yeti will make mincemeat out of others. Yeti suffers from low ground clearance and the initial clutch slippage needed to get it moving.

While going off road this initial pull away is in my mind a negative. We drove one on sand and as long as you could keep momentum it was brilliant. The moment you stopped and had to start again lot of clutch slipping had to be done to make it move. Similar situation on hilly terrains where I have seen Outlander pull out with ease.

The list in any case is arbitrary classification of my "feel" of the four vehicles listed by OP.

Going a little OT : Personally I would have brought Yeti a long time back but for their higher pricing. In my mind Yeti and Aria both suffered due too higher introductory pricing. Scorpio, XUV, Fortuner etc. all kept raising prices along with demand pull. These two on other hand were not able to generate demand pull despite being good vehicles due to higher ricing.

[Sunnysm]

Originally Posted by sudev

Eeerrrr...I made the track plan and sure did drive the vehicle a lot during four days there.

Since I also did Yeti drive experiences in past and drove Outlander through hills a bit I would say

Duster
Grand Vitara
Outlander
Yeti

Thanks for your input. This was quite helpful. Where would you place the Pajero SFX in this list? I was planning to buy a second hand Pajero SFX but am wondering if a AWD Duster would make sense. I will be on road 85% of the time.

I still find the old Pajero very good looking. I was a little worried about maintenance. Don't want to end up wasting too much time with ASS. Thanks in advance.

[sudev]

Pajero has high cost of spares. But that said it is a workhorse. Problem in comparos is that unless you have cars at the same time over same track it becomes subjective. And seriously unless you have a dedicated off-road machine the 85% is more likely to be 98%+

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

But increasingly good condition Fortuners for around or under 15lacs are also beginning to hit the market. I am sitting on this boat - trying to evaluate a new 4wd Duster vs a used Fortuner.
At this point, with not much information at hand, I would likely choose a 70k-80k, 4 year old Fortuner.

This is the exact dilemma I am in at the moment, decent Fortuners in Blore will cost about 18L where as a new Duster awd should be around 16lacs.
The advantages of buying the Duster would be;

1. 3-4years of warranty where as the Fortuner will be too old for any warranties.

2. Best in class handling and ride quality where as the Fortuner handling is typically like any tall SUV and ride is a bit bumpy unless loaded.

3. Average economy of 15kmpl where as the Fortuner at best might offer 11.5kmpl

4. 2 lacs lesser than the Fortuner.

5. New vehicle will save you rs.50,000 on additional expenditure on tyres unless the used fortuner comes with new tyres.

6. Has better approach, ramp over and departure angles than a Fortuner.

7. Cost of spares is cheaper than a Fortuner, lets say for a bumper or a orvm.

8. Expected to come with ESP, EBD, Hill climb assist and Traction Control features where as a Fortuner has none.

The disadvantages of buying the Duster would be;

1. Sacrificed road presence when compared to a Fortuner. Fortuner is just too menacing with a different kind of status persona.

2. Cannot seat more than 5 occupants where as in a fortuner 5 adults and 2 children can be seated. But yes, if there are 7 people in the Fortuner, the boot space is highly compromised. So, the advantage of a 7 seater is highly subjective. I dont have dogs so the 3rd row is redundant for me personally.

3. Does not have a low ratio when compared to a Fortuner for those offroad moments where absolute crawling might be needed.
4. Duster has a wading depth of 350mm where a fortuner has a monstrous 700mm.

Debatable points;

1. Can the Duster AWD actually perform as good or better off the road than a Fortuner with Better Torque to Weight ratio per ton, Better body dynamics (monocoque vs ladder chassis on the Fortuner), Intelligent electronic aid (EBD, ESP, TC & Hill assist) with Auto & lockable 4x4 option, Better Centre of Gravity, Better Approach-Ramp over-Departure angles, almost similar ground clearance (10mm lesser) and "650kgs lesser kerb weight" to lug???

2. Duster AWD is equipped with an extra short 1st gear to create a low-ratio feel while in 4x4 mode, this feature is working wonders in the Dacia Duster as per some reading that I have done on european forums. Our european counter parts have taken this car in places we cannot even imagine (courtesy youtube). Unless we try we wont know.

3. How often does an urban SUV owner take his SUV off road, irrespective of the vehicle he/she owns? If the answer is rarely, does the off-road spec comparison actually matter? Lastly, an SUV owner will not (or very rarely will) subject his vehicle to terrains that are fully suited for Thar or more serious off-roaders, well, then dont the Duster and Fortuner play an even game on that front for all?

Let me know what you guys think.

[sudev]

Most owners do not take their cars off road.

For those who do. Off road definitions can vary. On one end off roading in itself for fun and pleasure means doing extreme things. Extreme enough to need specially modified vehicles. Even standard Thar or Gypsy are not suitable. On other hand off roading as part of excursion or picnics need different - milder - capabilities like say for slush or loose terrain.

A wise driver should know his vehicle and its capability before trying or venturing out. Always try to have a alternate back up route while testing vehicle capabilities or going off road. Going in only to discover that there is no way out will only need calls to tractor's or JCB's or winching.

End of the day no vehicle has go any where and do anything capability. Else we would have had them atop Mt. Everest for sure by now!!

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

6. Has better approach, ramp over and departure angles than a Fortuner.

You sure about this? I think it should be otherwise.

Expected to come with ESP, EBD, Hill climb assist and Traction Control features where as a Fortuner has none.

Fortuner has VSC in the 4X4 variant which should work like a traction control. VSC = Vehicle Stability Control

Does not have a low ratio when compared to a Fortuner for those offroad moments where absolute crawling might be needed.

Heard, the AWD has very low 1st gear, but that would not cut in for a low ratio and anyways a proper 4X4 is on a different orbit as far as off roading goes wrt to an AWD.

Duster has a wading depth of 350mm where a fortuner has a monstrous 700mm.

No Duster or any AWD cars can do

this

. I am still amused.

Depends on what you want & what priorities outweigh the others.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by Sheel

Fortuner has VSC in the 4X4 variant which should work like a traction control. VSC = Vehicle Stability Control


No Duster or any AWD cars can do this. I am still amused.

Depends on what you want & what priorities outweigh the others.

VSC is different from traction control. VSC is to help the vehicle maintain composure during evasive maneuvers. Traction control is to ensure that the Tyre having the max traction get the max power to get out of stuck situation


That video is scary. Although he came out successfully I would not recommend any one to try this irrespective of the capability of the vehicle. That is tempting fate to the limit. The fortuner was pushed to the edge of the road by the water force if the width of the road is same as what it is at the beginning of video. Couple of more feet to the left and he would have been history.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

VSC is different from traction control. VSC is to help the vehicle maintain composure during evasive maneuvers. Traction control is to ensure that the Tyre having the max traction get the max power to get out of stuck situation .

Is it not the work of an AWD? Traction control IMO helps in launching a vehicle.

Maybe I mistook that for ESP.

[4x4addict]

I don't think it makes sense to compare a Fortuner & Duster 4x4. Both serve a different market and different purpose.

Fortuner is a tough 4x4 with a Torqy engine and Low Range, Duster is a softroader more capable than most outher soft roaders.

It makes sense to own a Fortuner only if you need a Full size 7 seater SUV. If you want a compact daily runabout which is economical and has decent 4x4 performance the duster 4x4 is the way to go. Ideally one should get both :-). If that is not possible then pick based on your needs, no point trying to prove that one is better than another. Both serve a different purpose & need.

[shankar.balan]

A very very responsible and sensible post. Thank you for this. About time we all realised and internalised that any vehicle is only as good as its driver and its state of upkeep.

Originally Posted by sudev

Most owners do not take their cars off road.

A wise driver should know his vehicle and its capability before trying or venturing out. Always try to have a alternate back up route while testing vehicle capabilities or going off road. Going in only to discover that there is no way out will only need calls to tractor's or JCB's or winching.

End of the day no vehicle has go any where and do anything capability. Else we would have had them atop Mt. Everest for sure by now!!

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

I don't think it makes sense to compare a Fortuner & Duster 4x4. Both serve a different market and different purpose.

Fortuner is a tough 4x4 with a Torqy engine and Low Range, Duster is a softroader more capable than most outher soft roaders.

It makes sense to own a Fortuner only if you need a Full size 7 seater SUV. If you want a compact daily runabout which is economical and has decent 4x4 performance the duster 4x4 is the way to go. Ideally one should get both :-). If that is not possible then pick based on your needs, no point trying to prove that one is better than another. Both serve a different purpose & need.

Regarding your first point; agreed, they do serve a different image quotient, space purpose but area of usage is almost identical amongst 98% of owners.

Regarding your second point; check the torque per ton of both the SUVs, you will surprise yourself. Yes, the Fotruner has a low ratio gbox bit 650kgs extra to lug with considerably higher COG due to a poor track to height ratio, do you think this wont play and adverse roll neutralizing the benefits of the biblic low ratio? Also, the Duster costs half as much as a Fortuner, IF desperately deeded, there is quite a bit of a room to make the SUV more capable off road with all the extra moolah in the kitty

Regarding your third point; Agreed.

In addition to what I have already stated below I have one more point to add; brakes on the Fortuner are below par!!!

[The Wolf]

Received a call from Renault showroom to check out the Duster AWD, which is actually neither on display nor available for a test drive. Everything is scheduled for the 22nd of this month. Even the pricing is not available, but is expected to be about 1.25lacs more than the 2wd top end model. So the OR price for the Duster AWD in Blore is expected to be around 16.23Lacs.

All the changes expected are there including the 3 most important ones, the suspension is independent on all 4s, the spare wheel is in the boot instead of under carriage now to allow for slightly higher GC and lastly an added intercooler. I was not allowed a test drive so cannot comment on the ride quality or general performance or behavior at this time. The engine clatter outside is loud and same as before however inside the car with windows up its barely any audible. The new design steering feels chunky to grip and there are no vibrations transferred to it of the cabin at idle. I had experienced this in the earlier models, something seems to have been done, could be as simple as modified mount material for the engine/gbox.

Size of the tyre is the same 215/65/R16 MRF Wanderers however now the same comes shod on graphite color 5 spoke alloys called Anthracite Alloys which are supposed to be lighter and stronger. They look pretty I'd say. 235/70 tyres should be the max anyone could go on these alloys without suspension mods/body lift I'd reckon. No AWD sticker on the car as shown in some websites including tbhp however there is an AWD chrome logo in the rear now and the B pillar receive matte black color stickers similar to many a cars out there.

The gears feel easier to slot and clutch is much lighter than older models and the interior option is available only in the black/grey combi with fabric black-red combo. Dash looks sturdy and as if will last forever but unappealing and old even with the rubberized soft touch material now.

The door frame receives an extra beading to avoid water seepage and the windows too receive the same treatment. Looks kinda bad from inside if observed closely. Very rudimentary.

[TB16]

^^ That means around 14.5-15 OTR here in delhi. Maybe even more. That surely is too much. Wish they launch the 4x4 in lower variants aswell.

[The Wolf]

Anyone looking for the specs of Duster including AWD, follow the attachment.