[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by camitesh

I was riding in the whereabouts of their itinerary so did caught up with these testing duo(I presume one is petrol and other is diesel)

One looks like a top variant and the other seems to be the mid variant, going by the absence of alloy wheels and roof rails, but with keyless entry and ORVM indicators.

Even the top variant seems to be missing the shark fin antenna, so it might be the second variant from top.

[Sawyer]

Having seen the Tata journey in cars for almost 20 years now, I still don't have the courage to trust them with more than a Nano purchase, and just because their cars are a little cheaper isn't motivation enough.

Tata cars have a two major problem caused reputation hangover even today: one is persistent niggles in vendor sourced parts and the second is inconsistent after sales service that often needs escalation for things to happen. Much more so than what is needed with Maruti and some others.

It is quite possible that things have changed for the better seeing the consistent sales that the Tiago is notching up, presumably in the non taxi segment. I haven't a feel for the user experience of that car against the two points.

All I see about Nexon is a car that deserves success. But I doubt that success will be price driven. If I am spending about 10 lakhs on car, I am not going to be motivated to go the Tata way to just save 50k - or having to spend another 50k is not going to stop me going that way, if the two referred issues were present/absent, as the case may be.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Tata cars have a two major problem caused reputation hangover even today..........

It is quite possible that things have changed for the better seeing the consistent sales that the Tiago is notching up........

The fact that for even the most negative opinion holders of the 'Tata Motors' brand.....the perception that ' possible things have changed', is a small battle victory in a very tough war ahead.

Tiago, Hexa....one step at a time, and the signs so far from what one sees of the Nexon; It is indeed a very big step forward for Tata!

Tata is still India's only passenger car maker and All the best to them!

[NiInJa]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Tata cars have a two major problem caused reputation hangover even today: one is persistent niggles in vendor sourced parts and the second is inconsistent after sales service that often needs escalation for things to happen. Much more so than what is needed with Maruti and some others.

That is true, my brother owns a Linea which was purchased from Pandit auto. It was one bad dealership experience. It did have some niggles and they were sorted eventually, but that does not make the car bad, does it ? We both love that car very much, even after so many years (2010- first crop) ! We rejected Honda City and Hyundai Verna and don't regret the decision even today !

At this point, I would focus more on the car than Tata as a brand. Let the car launch then we will see how many niggles it has and how well the service centers are equipped. As for our old car (Linea) I get it serviced from FNG and it has never been a problem so far. So lets not worry about such things so much

Off topic: if the Nexon were a human being I would have been in jail for stalking her everyday C'mon Tata, launch it already !!

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Tata is still India's only passenger car maker and All the best to them!

Lol. No argument from me on that, and I speak as a satisfied Nano user for almost four years now; for crowded Indian cities where one/two people have to be moved, there is no better car even now.

Fiat on the other hand thoroughly deserve to fail.

@Ninja: you may not worry about things like service centre quality, but the mass market that drives volumes has no time for inconsistent service experiences and will not put down their money if that situation remains the same.

And to another point made, when one thinks about every successful make in India today, it stands for something positive. Maruti for value for money, Hyundai for premium interiors and feel good factor, Toyota for reliability, VW for solid build. As do the others in their own distinct way. I am not able to easily point this out for Tata cars: if one had to point out a consistent positive attribute for the brand, what would it be?

[SandyX]

When the words TATA & car come up together, it's not really the truck image that comes to my mind but an idling Safari i saw eons back as a kid, which had this harsh engine note & its hood vibrating away. On top of that, it was overweight which it still is. I know they've come a lot since then but that image stuck. Then Nano came & it's something i wouldn't mind having if needed, but nothing else from them.

Now comes Nexon which is again likeable & has almost everything in place for an SUV(they call it so!) except the vital part, atleast AWD. Substantial clearance, decent motors, good interiors, compact package, likeable-with-mods exteriors & touted as an SUV, all of which does exactly what any other jacked up hatchback would do! I wouldn't have asked much from it if it's labelled a hatchback but it's not. Now that the AWD version is ruled out, one gets what's essentially the capabilities of a hatchback in the name & maybe price of an SUV, a feat perfected by other wannabes like Creta, Ecosport etc.

This is ALL personal opinion based on a belief that vehicles are put into categories based on their capabilities, something for which the Indian market doesn't seem to give nary any respect.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Tata is still India's only passenger car maker and All the best to them!

Whatever happened to Mahindra then?

They've been sticking well to their Indian roots as well, and have been very much more successful (commercially) than TATA Motors.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Whatever happened to Mahindra then?

They've been sticking well to their Indian roots as well, and have been very much more successful than TATA Motors.

UV's & motorcycles innit, and their only attempt at a car is basically a re-badged Dacia. So doesn't count in my books.

Albeit the SUV/Car boundaries very much overlap each other nowadays.

But yes as a UV/SUV maker, M&M has had very good success.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by shortbread

UV's & motorcycles innit, and their only attempt at a car is basically a re-badged Dacia. So doesn't count in my books.

Albeit the SUV/Car boundaries very much overlap each other nowadays.

But yes as a UV/SUV maker, M&M has had very good success.

KUV 100 is very much a small car like the Grand i10 or Swift, just made to look differently to take advantage of their UV roots.

Thankfully, TATA has been taking a much more straightforward approach, but that is more so because they don't have any particular strengths or well rooted sub-brands within the company.

[sachinayak]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

If I am spending about 10 lakhs on car, I am not going to be motivated to go the Tata way to just save 50k - or having to spend another 50k is not going to stop me going that way

I think Tata Motors understands this very well. They can no longer compete (or even exist) only by their price factor.

Honestly, at every iteration, they are taking their game to the next level

Zest/Bolt
Tiago/Tigor
Hexa
and now the Nexon.

Unlike the market leader, which took just way too many years to develop their own diesel engine, one must really give credit to Tata Motors, if what we hear about the 1.5L Diesel is true.

With the Nexon, Tata Motors seems to be leaving no stone unturned (well if you can look beyond the lack of a sun-roof or the leather-wrapped steering). Pricing alone cannot guarantee sales for Tata Motors and they seem to be realizing and acting on this aspect.

[Sawyer]

Good luck to them for sure; their biggest issue is the truck maker DNA that pops its head up from time to time, visible via the lack of enough attention to detail at times, and of not meeting expectations of passenger car users as opposed to truck and taxi fleet owners. Sometimes in the sales process, but mostly during service now, not so much at the sales stage.

They are in a good position to make cars better suited for the poor state of Indian roads better than anyone else can, seeing all I keep reading about how comfortable their cars are for long distance travels. And few Indian cities boast good roads either.

I don't worry too much about the lack of AWD in the car; this is just a gimmick that sees little use in the market that confers volumes. Being niggle free from the start, and reliable service quality is what will yield success. The other Indian demand for fuel economy is one they seem to have solved.

[amrutmhatre90]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

when one thinks about every successful make in India today, it stands for something positive. Maruti for value for money, Hyundai for premium interiors and feel good factor, Toyota for reliability, VW for solid build. As do the others in their own distinct way. I am not able to easily point this out for Tata cars: if one had to point out a consistent positive attribute for the brand, what would it be?

Tata operates / manufactures cars and sells them mainly in India only, rest of the manufactures you have mentioned operate in more than 20 countries, have more than 15-20 production facilities and some of the companies have been in the car production since 1979 or even 1934. They have the expertise and the funds to research and exposure of the world to make new cars.

Tata launched its first car in 1992 the Tata Estate and then the Sierra, after about 6 years they launched a small car which was Tata Indica in 1998. The time when Tata did not have proper R&D or exposure to the market other manufactures caught up to the game.

Now with the international exposure of JLR, Tata are making changes and they are showing.

I do not think being stand for something positive can make a brand sell cars, I feel its what the car has to offer and how satisfying it is to the buyer. For Tata I feel stand for something positive can be the Build Quality and the Value for Money Tag too, we all know Indica had this tag line.

Originally Posted by sachinayak

I think Tata Motors understands this very well. They can no longer compete (or even exist) only by their price factor.
Unlike the market leader, which took just way too many years to develop their own diesel engine, one must really give credit to Tata Motors.

Bang on mate, I am surprised how can manufacture like Maruti miss out on producing their own Diesel engine? they sell most cars having diesel engines compared to other manufactures. They are just busy making cars with tit-bits borrowed from other cars

[NiInJa]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

but the mass market that drives volumes has no time for inconsistent service experiences and will not put down their money if that situation remains the same.

Exactly what I am trying to say. I agree that inconsistent service is an issue with Tata, but there are solutions out there which can be a wee bit difficult than others but that should not stop us from owning cars which make us feel better. I am a very happy owner of a GM car whose service went from inconsistent to non-existent, but I like the car's looks and build quality (I preferred it over Maruti Ritz, it was very bad on the inside to be honest)

Tata Nexon looks good, has better space, has some features which the competition does not have at this point, and given Tata's expertise in ride and handling department we can assume it will be a good car to drive. Not to mention the engines, we don't know if they pack a punch but the numbers suggest something good. My wish is that mass market change this mentality they have about Tata, yes niggles and service can be bad, but Tata are trying and it is not THAT difficult living with a Tata car (based on my relative in Pune owning a Manza and my uncle in Mumbai owning a Vista; both happy). While some have bad experiences, many others had good experiences with respect to service.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I am not able to easily point this out for Tata cars: if one had to point out a consistent positive attribute for the brand, what would it be ?

I can think of space (or packaging), paint quality, ride and handling (compared to Maruti and Hyundai), and of late better looks and interiors compared to direct competition (Tiago vs Celerio)

[Sawyer]

Something positive is always the foundation on which brands are built. The word brand is sourced from the old branding of animals with a hot iron, and is something that is burnt into the mind in a way that it is the first thing that arises when one thinks of the brand, as something unique to the brand.

I am not sure if build quality is the first positive thing that comes to mind when one thinks of a Tata car. Value for money? Perhaps. The only thing that comes to my mind is the assurance of knowing that whatever happens, Tata will not run away from the car/problem, but will fix it even if that takes some time. Though I am not sure that is as good as producing cars that don't need this approach to be successful. So the question remains: what is the biggest positive that one thinks about when one thinks Tata cars, that influences one towards buying the car? I am not sure that in today's world, patriotism translates into money spend, so that factor isn't one that is brand worthy.

@Ninja: I saw your points; all have merit, but what would you say is what leaps to mind? It can't be a list...and maybe it is a work in progress as the cars evolve to where they need to be.

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Maruti for value for money, Hyundai for premium interiors and feel good factor, Toyota for reliability, VW for solid build. As do the others in their own distinct way. I am not able to easily point this out for Tata cars: if one had to point out a consistent positive attribute for the brand, what would it be?

There is one tagline they used in the past and it is applicable to most of their offerings even now "More Car Per Car"