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Old 27th December 2018, 16:16   #2431
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Have they partnered with banks as well to push the sales? Got this interesting mailer from ICICI. Don't remember getting a similar mail for any other car in the recent past.

Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs-harriericici.jpg
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Old 27th December 2018, 16:21   #2432
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
Have they partnered with banks as well to push the sales? Got this interesting mailer from ICICI. Don't remember getting a similar mail for any other car in the recent past.

Attachment 1831265
I donít think so. I got a similar mail for Marrazo from HDFC. Could be an initiative from the banks for new launches.
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Old 27th December 2018, 19:48   #2433
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Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. EDIT: Named Tata Harrier!

This is how Harrier looks when clicked with Jeep Compass!

Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs-tataharriervsjeepcompasssize4.jpg

Source
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Old 28th December 2018, 15:30   #2434
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

I don't think pricing the car in the 15-21 lakh category is a good decision, unless Tata is planning for low volume sales with higher margin, to only a few niche customers/enthusiasts.

Maybe the car is huge, may be the platform is from LandRover, may be the engine is bigger, but essentially it is almost fully localized 5 seater car and without any substantial boot capacity, even less than Duster. Also it is not bringing any exceptional features into the class to command that price.

In the end, all it would do is to increase the sale of Creta further, because people who are holding their purchases waiting for launch of Harrier, would be disappointed at the pricing and eventually turn to top-end Creta, since at the starting price of Harrier, they will be getting a similar vehicle with all bell and whistles, albeit a little smaller in size and devoid of 3-4 less used features. Along with this, it will also tempt Hyundai to increase the price of already overpriced Creta. BTW, I am also no fan of Creta due to the atrocious pricing. Just disappointed that Tata is following the same pricing path as Hyundai did with Creta.

If people buy top-of-the-line Creta, they will get :
1. All bell and whistles
2. A similar vehicle (5 seater SUV) with similar interior space, including boot.
3. 3-4 lakhs savings in the pocket

What they will lose:
1. Exterior Size and road presence
2. Bigger 2.0L engine
3. A mere 25-30 ltr additional boot capacity
4. A few less used features like brake disk wiping, puddle lamp, umbrella holder, drive modes, terrain response etc.


I think, some utilitarian features like ventilated seats, hands-free boot, rear disk brakes, sunroof, front parking sensor, power adjustable driver seat etc. would have justified this pricing and the term "class-leading features".

Last edited by SDP : 1st January 2019 at 10:20. Reason: Minor typos
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Old 28th December 2018, 16:48   #2435
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by anu007 View Post

What they will lose:
1. Exterior Size and road presence
Do people really prefer a vehicle which is bigger from outside (cumbersome to drive and park) but has the same internal space as smaller vehicle? I find it strange. I can understand the 'presence' part but a car can have a great presence without being excessively big.
Personally I believe in Honda's 'Man Maximum, Machine Minimum' philosophy.
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Old 28th December 2018, 17:02   #2436
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Not really . Just that I tend to look really close (and my background as a designer). I believe it is these small things (along with the good basics) which will eventually put the Harrier in the league of the Tuscons and CRVs of the world (which is what it 'dimensionally' equals).
What about 'financially' being NOT equal?
You sat inside a Harrier, and felt, on the inside it was dimensionally smaller than vehicles of it's segment?!
I think, it's one of the best decisions you have taken by cancelling your booking.
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Old 28th December 2018, 21:16   #2437
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by anu007 View Post
people who are holding their purchases waiting for launch of Harrier, would be disappointed at the pricing and eventually turn to top-end Creta, since at the starting price of Harrier, they will be getting a similar vehicle with all bell and whistles, albeit a little smaller in size and devoid of 3-4 less used features.
.
.
.
If people buy top-of-the-line Creta, they will get :
1. All bell and whistles
2. A similar vehicle (5 seater SUV) with similar interior space, including boot.
3. 3-4 lakhs savings in the pocket
Don't quite agree with your analysis. In your hypothesis, if you swap "Creta" with Brezza and "Harrier" with Creta, people get the same benefits as you have listed here (savings, bells and whistles, etc.). But you don't see Brezza's prices being hiked or Creta's sales numbers dropping.

While I agree with your general notion that Tata should price low, the only variant that matters (or the one that matters the most) is the top end variant. The pricing of said variant (or possibly top but one) will determine the success of the vehicle. In other words, IMHO a prospective Harrier customer is someone who is willing to park 18-20 lakhs and therefore is not even considering Creta (like a prospective Creta customer won't consider the Brezza).
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Old 28th December 2018, 21:44   #2438
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeevith View Post
In other words, IMHO a prospective Harrier customer is someone who is willing to park 18-20 lakhs and therefore is not even considering Creta (like a prospective Creta customer won't consider the Brezza).
In that statement there are quite a few assumptions which do not hold true IMHO.
  • All people I know who are seriously considering the Harrier also are considering the Creta. Some of them have also booked the Harrier and are waiting to see how it weighs up
  • The Creta Diesel 1.6 in Bangalore ranges between 16-19 lakh so if this is the Harrier price bracket then yes they are closely priced
  • At that price point the Creta sells 11000 units a month and the closest 5 seater Compass 1000+ so my bet is Tata is hoping to convert Creta buyers as a 1000 units a month does not justify a Harrier as Tata Motors has stated they expect the Harrier to make them a steady No:3 in the Indian automotive sales
  • The Hyundai brand in our market is at this point is placed better than Tata Motors. Tata Motors is on the journey to improve its brand positioning but its still WIP
  • Now the most important Creta,Harrier,Compass are all compact SUVs while the Brezza and the Nexon are subcompact so a Brezza-Creta comparison is well apples to oranges. Also the Brezza top end costs half of the Creta top end so there is no comparison either on pricing or segment

So in short for the Harrier to be successful a number of Creta customers have to be converted. My calculation as per Tata Motors statements even those made recently put the figure at 5000+ units a month. Now if those customers do not come from Creta buyers I do not see any other group that can constitute that number. In fact I expect a pricing of 18+ will not be able to get Tata Motors the numbers they need. I think smart as Tata Motors management is they have realised this and if you look at their PV division heads last interview he has gone on record that while they think its a premium product the 16-20 pricing is "not quite" in his own words.

Last edited by nainan : 28th December 2018 at 21:47.
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Old 28th December 2018, 22:17   #2439
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by nainan View Post
So in short for the Harrier to be successful a number of Creta customers have to be converted.
This is absolutely correct. A potential Harrier customer has to answer the very obvious question " Why not the Creta ?" " What does the Harrier offer that the Creta doesn't ?" Styling , may be ? Land Rover heitage ? Immaterial , I would say. Creta sells so much in the price range that the Harrier intends to play in that it(Harrier) will have to standout, which it does, in terms of styling. But what else ?

This is regardless of the fact that Harrier is a much larger vehicle, which might be its Achilles heel in cities where it will sell the most. Even the XUV500 has seen its numbers dwindle but that atleast comes with 7 seven seats. So has the numbers for the Compass.

Last edited by coldice4u : 28th December 2018 at 22:31.
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Old 28th December 2018, 23:22   #2440
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj View Post
What about 'financially' being NOT equal?
You sat inside a Harrier, and felt, on the inside it was dimensionally smaller than vehicles of it's segment?!
I think, it's one of the best decisions you have taken by cancelling your booking.
What I meant is, if they really pay close attention to the minute details, eventually (may be in 5 years) this car can draw potential customers of CRV or Tuscan. I know at the moment it probably competes with XUV500, Creta etc. Dimensionally it doesn't feel smaller (that is the whole point).
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Old 29th December 2018, 00:29   #2441
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Not really . Just that I tend to look really close (and my background as a designer). I believe it is these small things (along with the good basics) which will eventually put the Harrier in the league of the Tuscons and CRVs of the world (which is what it 'dimensionally' equals).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
What I meant is, if they really pay close attention to the minute details, eventually (may be in 5 years) this car can draw potential customers of CRV or Tuscan. I know at the moment it probably competes with XUV500, Creta etc. Dimensionally it doesn't feel smaller (that is the whole point).
This post is totally off topic to this thread, but
I completely agree with your statements regarding design language.
Design aesthetic is a reason that Jon Ive is highly regarded in Apple and was much loved by Steve Jobs.

In the Walter Isaacson book about Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs spoke about his father and a wooden cabinet.

Quote:
Fifty years after the fence was constructed, Jobs showed it to Isaacson, still standing and recalled a lesson about making things of quality that he learned from his father. Touching the boards of inside of the fence, he said that “He loved doing things right. He even cared about the look of the parts you couldn’t see.”
Quote:
He said that his father refused to use poor wood for the back of cabinets, or to build a fence that wasn’t constructed as well on the back side as it was the front. Jobs likened it to using a piece of plywood on the back of a beautiful chest of drawers. “For you to sleep well at night, the aesthetic, the quality, has to be carried all the way through.”
Source: Steve Jobs’ obsession with the quality of the things unseen

I believe you are completely justified in your criticism about how the Harrier has been put together with regard to its design aspect / shortcomings.

Last edited by Ithaca : 29th December 2018 at 00:35.
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Old 29th December 2018, 00:58   #2442
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by nainan View Post
In that statement there are quite a few assumptions which do not hold true IMHO. Now the most important Creta,Harrier,Compass are all compact SUVs while the Brezza and the Nexon are subcompact so a Brezza-Creta comparison is well apples to oranges. Also the Brezza top end costs half of the Creta top end so there is no comparison either on pricing or segment.

So in short for the Harrier to be successful a number of Creta customers have to be converted. My calculation as per Tata Motors statements even those made recently put the figure at 5000+ units a month. Now if those customers do not come from Creta buyers I do not see any other group that can constitute that number. In fact I expect a pricing of 18+ will not be able to get Tata Motors the numbers they need. I think smart as Tata Motors management is they have realised this and if you look at their PV division heads last interview he has gone on record that while they think its a premium product the 16-20 pricing is "not quite" in his own words.
Like I said in the earlier post I too think Tata should price low (at least for the initial shock value), but I don't believe their only (or rather overwhelming) target is the Creta. I.e., the 5000 units aren't all going to come from Creta (think XUV, Scorpio, Tucson). IMHO this is an attempt to create a new segment (albeit not a very differtiated one), wherein the difference between the Creta and the Harrier may not be as broad as the Brezza and the Creta, but somewhere in the thereabouts.

Also, the Brezza top end manual variant cost 10 lakhs (ex-showroom) where as the Creta costs 15 lakhs. Not exactly half like you suggested.
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Old 29th December 2018, 01:03   #2443
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeevith View Post
5000 units.
Did TATA Motors claim a sales target of 5000 units? Yearly or monthly?
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Old 29th December 2018, 01:04   #2444
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Did TATA Motors claim a sales target of 5000 units? Yearly or monthly?
Not a clue! Was picking up on the number quoted in Nainan's post.

Last edited by Jeevith : 29th December 2018 at 01:05.
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Old 29th December 2018, 07:37   #2445
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re: Tata H5X Concept @ Auto Expo 2018. Named Tata Harrier! EDIT: Launched @ Rs. 12.69 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeevith View Post
In other words, IMHO a prospective Harrier customer is someone who is willing to park 18-20 lakhs and therefore is not even considering Creta (like a prospective Creta customer won't consider the Brezza).
Here is a link to a thread where the prospective customer did consider the Nexon and Creta as the next car and to be frank couldn't justify the premium Creta is charging over the Nexon. I believe the same will apply to Creta vs Harrier debate too, if the latter is priced in the compass territory.

Link: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/what-...ml#post4465074 (Tata Nexon vs the others)

Having said that, my gut feeling is that Tata must be laughing out loud for the brilliant decision they took by offering that vague pricing in a tweet months before the car's launch/actual price reveal. Pages after pages, posts after posts, we have discussed the pricing of the Harrier. Some have justified the rumoured 21L price for the top end variant and some have got offended. But subconsciously all of us have that figure in our mind. And my gut feeling is that Harrier will be priced bang on into the Creta price bracket and due to this price leak, everyone will gladly accept the final sticker price. I personally do not think they will price it more than the Hexa.
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