[Shreyas_H]

Originally Posted by ram87pune

Hello bhpians. Latest round of information regarding the Harrier/Gravitas duo.

1. As of now Harrier is a 2 star GNCAP car. This is mostly because of the 2.0 Multujet engine which is intruding more into the passenger cell than expected. My sources tell me that with their petrol engine it will be a 4 star car.

Oh man, that's terrible if true. I was really considering the diesel automatic as a probably contender for my next car.

Hoping this is untrue!

[OSH]

Originally Posted by Porschefire

I would be really surprised if your sources are within Tata.

If at all they are working for TML, then TML should find such rats and fire them. Such info will usually be known only to a person having a good position and this is just taking wrong advantage of that. Don't these guys have some sort of legal obligations to not disclose stuff outside ?

[ram87pune]

Originally Posted by Porschefire

First of all, thanks for the sharing insider information with the forum but with all due respects Sir, some information is best not disclosed on a public forum, especially when the manufacturer is working towards bettering the product.

I would be really surprised if your sources are within Tata.

Point duly noted Porschefire. From next time I will be more careful about posting such sensitive information. But another reason for posting this is that for one I know that my sources are never completely wrong atleast never have been and secondly me posting this here clearly sends a message to the Tata bashers that even though I am an unabashed Tata fanboy, they cannot accuse me of being one.

And regarding the location of my sources all I will say is that if I tell you then I am afraid I will have to kill you

[wheelguy]

Originally Posted by Shreyas_H

Oh man, that's terrible if true. I was really considering the diesel automatic as a probably contender for my next car.

Hoping this is untrue!

If you get to know such things about other cars from other manufacturers, no wonder then you might end up with zero cars on your list!

Scorpio is selling in good numbers even with those ratings.

Originally Posted by OSH

If at all they are working for TML, then TML should find such rats and fire them. Such info will usually be known only to a person having a good position and this is just taking wrong advantage of that. Don't these guys have some sort of legal obligations to not disclose stuff outside ?

I think oral communications wouldn't count, but they will definitely do a significant damage to the company like we are seeing here on the forum.

[Shreyas_H]

Originally Posted by wheelguy

If you get to know such things about other cars from other manufacturers, no wonder then you might end up with zero cars on your list!

Scorpio is selling in good numbers even with those ratings.

Scorpio may be selling well because the buyers are okay with a bad safety rating, which I personally am not. That's why I mentioned that if true it's terrible news for me

[Guna]

Originally Posted by Porschefire

but with all due respects Sir, some information is best not disclosed on a public forum, especially when the manufacturer is working towards bettering the product. It produces a negative perspective around it even before the manufacturer has put out an official statement.

In fact whether one should post such 'critical/sensitive information' which cannot be 'substantiated' is highly debatable matter and I was in a similar dilemma when someone (who happened to be in the core testing team of the said vehicle) told me that certain car had a problem with the ABS system (which doesn't work beyond certain speed) and the team was working to rectify the problem but continued to sell the car.
Best would be to post it but also put a disclaimer that this is a unsubstantiated info. Isn't this one of the the purpose of such forums? We can get the official statement from many other sources but inside scoops are valuable. But if something leans towards being just rumor/speculation, it should be removed by the mods.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by Porschefire

First of all, thanks for the sharing insider information with the forum but with all due respects Sir, some information is best not disclosed on a public forum, especially when the manufacturer is working towards bettering the product.

Um what? If I were considering a Harrier/Gravitas, I'd certainly want information like this.

The caveat that it is unsubstantiated has been made clear. If it's untrue, Tata can easily prove it by letting GNCAP test the car.

[Porschefire]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Um what? If I were considering a Harrier/Gravitas, I'd certainly want information like this.
The caveat that it is unsubstantiated has been made clear. If it's untrue, Tata can easily prove it by letting GNCAP test the car.

I am all for insider information, especially when it can help make my decision. But, if I were to buy a 2 million rupees car, I'd rather go with substantiated information rather than word of mouth. Yes, if I know the OP personally, the information provided would factor in my purchase decision but since I don't know him or his source, I don't think it will affect my decision.

PS: I mean no offence to the OP, just felt the information could be provided out in a better way (as opposed to it being like a Whatsapp forward, for me) hence stating my opinion here. I don't work for Tata and neither do I have any vested interests in the company. I am just posting as a newly turned admirer of it's cars.

[TROOPER]

Originally Posted by ram87pune

10. The deal with Fiat is for 70000 engines per annum for 7 years and not for a total of 7 years as I had wrongly mentioned earlier. So let's say if Tata consumes 12000 engines per year for the Omega platform then they still have to pay for the remaining 58000 engines. This is really bleeding Tata Motors.

Originally Posted by ram87pune

So Hexa stays at least till 2023 and also the Varicor engine will stay because that is Tata's only option after the completion of the 7 year period of the Fiat Multijet for the Omega platform.

Was having a chat with GM of service of Automatrix Mangalore, about the Hexa's engine. At that moment he told that there's info that the Varicor 2.2 is expected to be plonked into the Harrier.

He did credit the fiat 2.0 diesel to be amazing. But he repeated that the Varicor 2.2 is expected in the Omega Arc platform SUVs.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by TROOPER

Was having a chat with GM of service of Automatrix Mangalore, about the Hexa's engine. At that moment he told that there's info that the Varicor 2.2 is expected to be plonked into the Harrier.

He did credit the fiat 2.0 diesel to be amazing. But he repeated that the Varicor 2.2 is expected in the Omega Arc platform SUVs.

Unlikely, The Varicor 2.2 is designed for rear wheel drive applications. It is unlikely to be adapted for transverse engine mounting. The 2.2 has always been used for longitudinal applications.

Even if TML had the slightest inkling of such an adaption, they would not have gone ahead to sign up power train deals with Fiat and Hyundai.

[The Rationalist]

I would like to believe what has been shared. Tata has published Altroz's 5* safety results, anyone with minimum common sense can sense something amiss when their flagship product has not yet been crash tested. They have tested every single car except Harrier! They are speaking in future tense about safety of a vehicle which has been launched. Come on guys, don't be so naive. As much as admire Tata, one need to call a spade a spade.

Harrier is not a safe vehicle untill otherwise proved, the onus is on Tata to do that. They can't give excuses for not testing it.

[manjunathkl]

This rumor seems inaccurate. It is highly unlikely that Fiat's 2.0 ltr diesel engine will just cave-in to the passenger space of a JLR designed platform car. Jeep Compass with the same engine has scored 5*s. If Tata's flagship car has failed the test so badly, they wouldn't go gung-ho about Nexon and Altroz's 5*s which raises the same question on Harrier too.

I feel this is what has happened: Tata didn't expect Harrier to be such a slow performer in sales. They are obviously re-working the product plan to make it sustainable and profitable. Making a 7 seater variant suggests that point.

Harrier is positioned in D1 segment. This segment doesn't have a Maruti competing. NO one in the auto industry in their right mind will let such an opportunity go waste by producing an unsafe car for a premium segment. Harrier will score atleast 4*s when it will be tested.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

I would like to believe what has been shared.
Harrier is not a safe vehicle untill otherwise proved, the onus is on Tata to do that. They can't give excuses for not testing it.

That's the beauty of rumours. It can be shaped into what one wants!
Harrier might as well not meet the lofty standards Tata has set for their recent cars, but there's a good chance it might still trump its competitors. That's how poor the safety scene in India is. So, there's nothing worrisome for Tata.

You might try to put words in their mouth, but I don't think Tata will be foolish to admit it even if that's the case.

[sachinayak]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

Harrier is not a safe vehicle untill otherwise proved, the onus is on Tata to do that. They can't give excuses for not testing it.

Isn't this true and applicable for absolutely any car in the market? Including the likes of Innova Crysta, Fortuner or perhaps even is closer competitors like the Kia Seltos and MG Hector.

Am i missing something?

[The Rationalist]

Originally Posted by sachinayak

Isn't this true and applicable for absolutely any car in the market? Including the likes of Innova Crysta, Fortuner or perhaps even is closer competitors like the Kia Seltos and MG Hector.
Am i missing something?

Of course, unless the car is a CBU/CKD which has been tested at a different country. I'm not at all a Toyota or for that matter a fanboy of any brand. I analyze things for the facts. I don't assume a car is safe just because the manufacturer produces safe cars in Western countries.

I have said my next car would be a Tata or Mahindra, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna defend them blindly. XUV 500 won't get a good crash rating, that's why they didn't test it. About Toyota, they know for sure Innova won't make the cut. They have tested Etios, so it's not that they haven't tested their cars. Coming to Koreans and Japanese, as long the cars make volumes they won't bother or else the government should have some spine.

Any reasons according to you that Tata haven't tested Harrier yet? Let me get enlightened about only one car among their stable being mysteriously left out of crash testing! One doesn't need to have use too much of grey matter to know why. They will test it only when they are sure it will at least secure 4*. They may be trying all within their means to reach that stage, but the cars all ready on the roads can't be told to be safe. Nexon's 5* star rating was after improvements to the 4* star rated Nexon. You can't say all Nexon's are 5* crash rated, it's only from December 2018 onwards if I remember correctly that Nexon became 5* rated.