[himanshugoswami]

Originally Posted by Venkatesh

Safari Taillights design revealed by Pratap Bose

Attachment 2107393

also, the fact that this shows a starlit sky may be alluding to a pano sunroof.

[Beelzebub]

[UP!!!!]

I think naming Gravitas as Safari has made things more interesting.
I wasn't paying much attention to this car earlier but now since it has "Safari" badge, I'm inclined towards it.

A masterstroke from Tata.

[vigneshkumar31]

As much as Mr Pratap Bose fends off people with quick dismissals regarding any question about the naming, or the AWD, I will wait if and when the AWD option is added to the Safari.

The market today is much different from what it was in the days of the VX 4X4. The AWD variant would find takers especially in the present scenario where folks don't mind spending for a lifestyle quotient. While the Safari name will hold buzz for a while, it has to really face it's nemesis when the new 5OO is launched. And if M&M reintroduces it's W11 unique Option AT+AWD variant , Tata can sit and watch what kind of demand it garners. And then probably include a refreshed version after another eternity while M&M goes to the bank smiling like they did with the Scorpio and the previous gen XUV.

[CARDEEP]

Thanks for the screen shots @Beelzebub

Seemingly Pratap Bose"s attitude is stubborn, sadistic & arrogant. He seems less willing to listen (even). Just toeing single line, ignoring & distancing Dan's IMO.

When you are trying to rebuild, you can't ignore or ridicule fans. Rather, Tata & he should try to get AWD (minimum requirement, if not 4x4 derived from LR) to cater to people who tread rough terrain.

I hope better sense prevails over marketing jingoism.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

As much as Mr Pratap Bose fends off people with quick dismissals regarding any question about the naming, or the AWD, I will wait if and when the AWD option is added to the Safari.

The market today is much different from what it was in the days of the VX 4X4. The AWD variant would find takers especially in the present scenario where folks don't mind spending for a lifestyle quotient. While the Safari name will hold buzz for a while, it has to really face it's nemesis when the new 5OO is launched. And if M&M reintroduces it's W11 unique Option AT+AWD variant , Tata can sit and watch what kind of demand it garners. And then probably include a refreshed version after another eternity while M&M goes to the bank smiling like they did with the Scorpio and the previous gen XUV.

Pratap Bose does not dictate demand in the market.

M&M does not currently sell the Bolero, XUV300, Scorpio or XUV500 with a 4x4 option, just checked M&M's website and the option does not exist anymore. The Thar and the 'days numbered' Alturas, are available with 4x4, but none of the other mainstream models? I am sure M&M still offers the 4x4 variant for fleet sales, defence orders etc..... so why not to the civilian market?!

If this demand did exist then why cull the 4x4 option? BS6 has nothing to do with four wheel drive. Look at the faltering sales of the Jeep Compass offered with 4x4.

50% of us will cry about the lack of 4x4 availability but less than 5% will actually cough up the money and buy one! In the real world people will jump to the higher variant with more features than spend the same money on 4x4.

Tata always

[turbo]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

Thanks for the screen shots @Beelzebub

Seemingly Pratap Bose"s attitude is stubborn, sadistic & arrogant. He seems less willing to listen (even). Just toeing single line, ignoring & distancing Dan's IMO.

When you are trying to rebuild, you can't ignore or ridicule fans.

Totally agree. Something about him rubs me the wrong way. He has the "I can do no wrong" and "If you're not with me, you're against me" attitude.

A stark contrast to Mr. Ratan Tata, who's the epitome of humility.

[SatyRoy]

I personally feel that initially naming it Gravitas had killed the buzz to some extent. There is a large group of Safari loyalist (including myself) who did not pay a lot of attention on Gravitas however now that the rebranding is done and Gravitas is officially named "Safari" speculations about the 4x4 setup have started.

[rpm]

With all the talk around AWD/4×4, some arguing for the motion and some against it, I would like to better understand the point being made about market demand being the reason behind culling AWD/4×4.

Isn't AWD/4×4 usually offered as a Top of the Line variant? The abysmal sales/demand may be due to the steep price difference? I mean, if someone could provide the statistics of the % share of top of the line variant of a given vehicle in this price segment, maybe that could put the abysmal demand of AWD/4×4 into some context? Like how abysmal are we talking about?

I was thinking if the AWD/4×4 trickled down to mid variants (like AT has in recent years) with a slight premium, say, slightly less than the immediate higher variant, would it make a better case study for the desirability of AWD/4×4?


For some reason, this reminds me of the case with smartphone notches and headphone jacks, which became 'features' because they were removed altogether without providing competent alternatives to those who wanted them.

Like, if the same smartphone launched in two variants with just these 2 differences (everything else being the same): one with a notch & missing headphone jack, and the other with traditional slim bezels & a headphone jack, for around the same price (assuming the higher cost of the modern notched screen vs lower cost of the older slim bezel screen could offset the cost of retaining the headphone jack, helping achieve similar pricing for both variants), would we still be witnessing these 'new features/trends'?

I personally feel that these two features were rather shoehorned and not to my liking, but I had to put up with them because when my previous phone died, the market didn't have any phones with conventional bezels that would fit in my budget and I ended up with a notched phone. Doesn't necessarily reflect what I need in my smartphone, but I think I'm (an unwilling) part of the notched phone demographic now.

While it may not be a perfect analogy, I hope it at least conveys the point of giving options to the consumer to choose from and decide for themselves, instead of telling them they don't know what they need.

AWD/4×4 may not be of utility in day to day life, but 'whatever it is, you don't need it' approach probably doesn't resonate with why that person needs it. Maybe it gives them peace of mind, maybe they have had experiences where they wished they had it. Who knows why it's important to them, except they themselves?
Besides, I assume quite a sizable number of us make a considerable number of decisions not driven by practicality as the foremost or sole criteria.

I know I'm not factoring in the R&D costs in case of the Safari, because I'm not very knowledgeable about how much of a difference it would actually make to the final pricing after the volume vs cost calculations, so please chime in folks.

The upcoming XUV 500, if offered with AWD in top of the line variant, should make for an interesting case study vs top of the line Safari without AWD, if priced and kitted comparably. XUV supposedly has the upper hand in kit and features, so I'm unsure if they would be priced comparably though.

[gururajrv]

I’m happy and I’m not happy!

Why?

Happy because Safari brand is back.

Not happy because Safari was unique and didn’t share any resemblance to any of its cousins from Tata’s stable. Gravitas is a lot in common with Harrier. Whilst the new Harrier is a competitive product, I still can’t fathom the fact how the characteristics of a Safari was perceived in Harrier’s 7 seat avatar?

Scorpio on the other hand lived to see many iterations of it while Tata kind of ignored Safari and didn’t really pay much heed to its further progress. I still don’t believe it would make any difference to the overall sales figure as it would still face a lot of heat in the segment like the junior Harrier did with Creta, Seltos and Hector. Safari will see the heat coming from Creta 7 seater, Hector plus which are loaded with features and crowd are focused on feature list - I only wish the Safari name brings in more sales as the overall design looks nice.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

Thanks for the screen shots @Beelzebub

Seemingly Pratap Bose"s attitude is stubborn, sadistic & arrogant. He seems less willing to listen (even). Just toeing single line, ignoring & distancing Dan's IMO.

When you are trying to rebuild, you can't ignore or ridicule fans. Rather, Tata & he should try to get AWD (minimum requirement, if not 4x4 derived from LR) to cater to people who tread rough terrain.

I hope better sense prevails over marketing jingoism.

Thats very harsh and unfair! I have seen his tweets and its nothing that a marketing head of a automobile company wouldnt state. Most of us think that this whole name change is an afterthought, sure, so be it. Thats a call from Tata for their own reasons and if they fail, then they have to probably to blame themselves! And as an employee Pratap Bose has to toe this line of thought and not give even a slight hint that something is amiss, and if does do that then keyboard warriors would have a field day!

And im not sure why people go on and on about 4 x 4, but the size of this market may be very small. Yes, the Thar is a classic case, but the Thar was always about 4 x 4 and little else. We have to remember that companies will always put their money where there are going to be returns. Tata is on a road to recovery with these new launches, and they are right in focusing on whats most important and where they have assured returns.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

TSeemingly Pratap Bose"s attitude is stubborn, sadistic & arrogant. He seems less willing to listen (even). Just toeing single line, ignoring & distancing Dan's IMO.

This is quite frankly way over the top and a bit uncalled for. I see nothing of that sort in his responses. Truth is, a large majority of the SUV's in India are not bought for 4x4 and if Tata Motors in their wisdom have decided that they are ready to let go of those sales, it is their decision. If Safari does not do as well, it wont be because it does not have 4x4 or all wheel drive.

Also reminds me of how the so called "enthusiasts" raved and called for an affordable fast hatchback that India lacked - Abarth Punto sinks without a trace. Oh, we want a cheap, fast hatchback - here you go the Tata Tiago JTP, again goes down without a trace. And they both were well reviewed cars.

[fastturtle10]

I am quite surprised by the number of people criticizing the new Safari for its lack of AWD/4x4. As mentioned by many others, very few people asking for AWD and 4x4 end up actually purchasing it. Team-BHP represents a handful of enthusiasts from whom many may opt for it but as the statistics suggest, many people do not really care about the capability and more about the features and road-presence. Besides, how many people would spend 20+ lakhs and take their cars for even somewhat serious off-roading aside from a handful of people. I believe as long as the demand doesn't exist Tata does not need to go out of their way to develop another variant. I personally don't believe the Indian car market was ever enthusiastic about an SUV's capability but rather the road-presence and just knowing your car is capable attracted people towards such cars.

All of this suddenly makes me remember when I went to check out the XUV500 a few years back; when we were discussing the W11 AT AWD model, the salesperson who was a senior with good experience without hesitation asked us "do you really want an AWD model? Isn't an automatic enough? An AWD will not only be more expensive but also it will reduce fuel efficiency". Granted that consumers in this segment may not care about fuel efficiency as much as in lower segments but it is still a factor that the average customer takes into consideration.

[vigneshkumar31]

Originally Posted by turbo

Totally agree. Something about him rubs me the wrong way. He has the "I can do no wrong" and "If you're not with me, you're against me" attitude.

A stark contrast to Mr. Ratan Tata, who's the epitome of humility.

While he (or his PR team) seems to be answering every comment on social media to keep the buzz alive till launch and keep the chatter live, and that's welcome because we get to reach out to the design boss directly, the way every person with a contrarian view is just flushed down suggests that they don't have many answers and just want to be steadfast and live in denial.

Regarding not launching the 4x4 till enough demand is generated, Id asked (see snapshots above) regarding how would they gauge market demand for a variant that doesn't exist. In reply he asked me if I've seen the sales of 4x4 over the last decade.I wanted to rebutt saying if he has seen the sales of the Safari over the last decade? Then I realised that I'm the customer and I shouldn't be praying and hoping Tata gets the Safari right at least this time,.emotions notwithstanding. They've their reasons for what they're doing with their product and how they choose to deal with it and as the customer the only thing I can do is talk through my wallet. Best, I would withdraw from the banter and see the car at launch and after the inevitable refresh Vis a vis the competition. If the company remains slow to learn, then we have a plethora of other options to choose from., We just wished it could've been a Safari.

[uday.ere]

Tata Safari imagined in 4X4 rough n tough edition

Source : https://m.indianautosblog.com/2021-t...dering-p322299