VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

SansGT · 28th June 2020, 19:51

Does anyone know when VAG is planning to bring the new auto box for Polo?
Also, I believe the Highline Plus variant will also be offered with the automatic gearbox. In that case, how will they differentiate the GT versus the Highline Plus Auto?

turbo · 28th June 2020, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by SansGT

Does anyone know when VAG is planning to bring the new auto box for Polo?
Also, I believe the Highline Plus variant will also be offered with the automatic gearbox. In that case, how will they differentiate the GT versus the Highline Plus Auto?

Polo is already available with a TC 6 speed AT.

The difference between the Polo GT Automatic, and the Polo Highline plus Automatic is interior colour (highline gets beige + black vs all black), roof in gloss black vs body coloured, different grille and body badges and stickers saying GT.
There are no mechanical changes.

If thats worth the extra 50k to one or not is something that the particular individual has to decide.

I, for one would pay just to not have beige inside my car, but then some wouldnt.

https://www.carwale.com/volkswagen-c...rice-in-delhi/

SansGT · 28th June 2020, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo

Polo is already available with a TC 6 speed AT.

Sorry if you misunderstood. I am aware of the 6-Speed TC. What I wanted to know was that when will the same be available at the dealerships.

turbo · 28th June 2020, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by SansGT

Sorry if you misunderstood. I am aware of the 6-Speed TC. What I wanted to know was that when will the same be available at the dealerships.

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...iveries-417614

7000plusrpm · 28th June 2020, 21:48

I was in touch with a VW dealership in Kolkata for a Polo Automatic. The SA had told me that the deliveries for automatics will commence from Sept-Oct, may get delayed further. Covid-19 has reduced the manufacturing capacity anyway. And due to the high demand of the Rapid and Polo 1.0 TSI, the focus right now is on the manuals. He had mentioned that even a TD vehicle is not available at the dealership. They are expecting one in Sept.

My ever-skeptical mind will take this with a large bucket of salt - he probably is trying to push me towards the manual versions of the Polo.

Xaos636 · 28th June 2020, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7000plusrpm

I was in touch with a VW dealership in Kolkata for a Polo Automatic. The SA had told me that the deliveries for automatics will commence from Sept-Oct, may get delayed further.

Same response from the showrooms down south. The torque converter models are delayed by 3-4 months at least.

84.monsoon · 29th June 2020, 11:31

I have been doing some research in to the 6-speed TC box proposed to be introduced in the Polo and Vento. After crawling through various VW forums, I have no evidence of any recent development work done by VW or Skoda on a new torque converter automatic. All their R&D has been going into developing better versions of the various DGS boxes and some of it is going into developing a new manual box called MQ281. There has been no development of torque converters since early 2000s. The Torque converter we saw introduced in the Vento Automatic in 2011 (AQ250) in India has already been use in the US in the Audi A3 and Jetta cars since 2003, with varying torque ratings. It is a transmission developed by Japanese company Aisin and code-named 09G by them.

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_291_d1.pdf
http://www.evosoft.dk/diagrams/DSG.pdf

Based on all my research, I believe the 6-speed TC we will be getting in the Polo and Vento (and perhaps all the group's VISION-IN - MQB-A0-IN based cars such as Taigun and Kamiq) will all use this AQ250 gearbox for the Auto transmissions versions to keep costs in check and reduce quality & reliability issues.

This is not such great news. The gearbox is known to be a workhorse, but somewhat sluggish and not very quick on shifts. Below is from Rehan's review when this box was launched back in 2011:

"The transmission tends to shift up fairly early, as it has probably been tuned to maximize fuel efficiency. If you just want to potter around town or slide along with rush hour traffic, the performance of the AT is par for the course. The Honda City's AT is quicker, and the DSGs are in a different league altogether"

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post2026807 (Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review)

So, all in all, there is not a great lot to look forward to from this TC - unless VW pulls a rabbit out of its hat and presents us with an entirely different transmissions sourced from ZF or another other partner.

SansGT · 4th July 2020, 11:41

The auto-box with Polo is set to come sometime in August. I would ideally like to wait and test the same out before making a decision. However, the TSI Limited edition is quite attractive. A HL+ variant with all the sporty looks with spoilers, decals and a blackened roof and that too at a lesser price point than the actual HL+ is too hard to resist. Hence, I am in quite a fix! Does anyone know for how long will the TSI edition be available and will waiting for the automatic be a risk as VW may stop selling this edition?

On a separate note, I had a connect with one of the VW dealerships in Mumbai. They sent me the below price list.

VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT-capture.png

Strangely, this doesn't even mention the TSI edition. It is surely because the do not want the average customer know that such a VFM variant exists, and this enables them to push the HL+ variant (Rs. 8.02 Lakh). When I pushed for it, they did show the pricing of the TSI edition (Rs 7.89 Lakh). What was funny was when I asked them for offers. They simply said that the TSI edition is an offer price and showed the price difference of INR 13,300 with the HL+ trim as a dealership offer.

I had a laugh and told him not to fool me as I have idea of the market. However, I felt bad that a normal customer would not know this and would treat the same as a valid offer. This is actually a type of cheating the customer and sad that the dealerships take the customers for a ride and in turn ruin the reputation of the brands.

84.monsoon · 4th July 2020, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SansGT

The auto-box with Polo is set to come sometime in August. I would ideally like to wait and test the same out before making a decision. However, the TSI Limited edition is quite attractive.

If you need an automatic car, I would recommend you wait. The torque converter that is arriving seems to the tried and tested transmission available in the Vento from 2011 onward. While not exactly exciting, it seems to be quite a competent, rugged and functional box that can take the strains of commuting in India. We have not heard any horror stories about this box. In Mexico (where I visit often for work), I see thousands of VW Vento Taxis with 1.6 MPI engine and this TC box - the car is made in India and exported there. It seems to the single most popular model, not only among cabbies but also private car owners. The cabbies there seem to have no problems with the transmission over 200,000 - 300,000 kms. Given the installed domestic manufacturing base and low manufacturing costs due to fully depreciated plant and machinery, I expect VW will be very aggressive in pricing with this box as compared to DSG boxes, which they have to import. I would not be surprised if VW offers a similar introductory price for a "Polo TSI Auto" variant at 8.75 lakhs or thereabouts. There could also be a "Rapid Rider Auto" at 8.5 lakhs or thereabouts, if they continue to go with a similar approach to what they did with the introduction of the 1.0 TSI Manual. Remember, the group needs to generate some excitement till the Vision -IN SUV twins (Taigun and Kamiq) arrive next year!

SansGT · 4th July 2020, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

I expect VW will be very aggressive in pricing with this box as compared to DSG boxes, which they have to import. I would not be surprised if VW offers a similar introductory price for a "Polo TSI Auto" variant at 8.75 lakhs or thereabouts.

Well, if you see the quote above, they already have the prices of the automatic trims. It is 9.13 Lakh for the HL+ and 9.6 Lakh for the GT.

SansGT · 4th July 2020, 17:19

The first review of the Venot TSI is out by Evo India. Damn, the TSI edition costs 1 Lakh lesser than the HL+!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXM4x67rEm0

TokyoDrifter · 4th July 2020, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by SansGT

Damn, the TSI edition costs 1 Lakh lesser than the HL+!

You mean the TSI “Limited” Edition?

SansGT · 4th July 2020, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by TokyoDrifter

You mean the TSI “Limited” Edition?

Yes. I meant the limited edition which is being driven in the video. Apologies for the confusion.

GBX · 4th July 2020, 20:07

I don't think this discount is ever going off the table. They'll simply create a new special edition to take its place.

I'd personally wait to see the AT model just to see what features you'd lose/gain over the MT. There's simply no clarity right now.

ishlinea7260 · 4th July 2020, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SansGT

The first review of the Venot TSI is out

Is that thumbnail photoshopped?

28th June 2020, 19:51	#271
SansGT BHPian Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Thane/Kolkata Posts: 185 Thanked: 494 Times	Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT Does anyone know when VAG is planning to bring the new auto box for Polo? Also, I believe the Highline Plus variant will also be offered with the automatic gearbox. In that case, how will they differentiate the GT versus the Highline Plus Auto?
	(1) Thanks

28th June 2020, 21:48	#275
7000plusrpm BHPian Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Kolkata Posts: 188 Thanked: 553 Times	Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT I was in touch with a VW dealership in Kolkata for a Polo Automatic. The SA had told me that the deliveries for automatics will commence from Sept-Oct, may get delayed further. Covid-19 has reduced the manufacturing capacity anyway. And due to the high demand of the Rapid and Polo 1.0 TSI, the focus right now is on the manuals. He had mentioned that even a TD vehicle is not available at the dealership. They are expecting one in Sept. My ever-skeptical mind will take this with a large bucket of salt - he probably is trying to push me towards the manual versions of the Polo.
	(3) Thanks

29th June 2020, 11:31	#277
84.monsoon Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chennai Posts: 2,262 Thanked: 10,102 Times	Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT I have been doing some research in to the 6-speed TC box proposed to be introduced in the Polo and Vento. After crawling through various VW forums, I have no evidence of any recent development work done by VW or Skoda on a new torque converter automatic. All their R&D has been going into developing better versions of the various DGS boxes and some of it is going into developing a new manual box called MQ281. There has been no development of torque converters since early 2000s. The Torque converter we saw introduced in the Vento Automatic in 2011 (AQ250) in India has already been use in the US in the Audi A3 and Jetta cars since 2003, with varying torque ratings. It is a transmission developed by Japanese company Aisin and code-named 09G by them. http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_291_d1.pdf http://www.evosoft.dk/diagrams/DSG.pdf Based on all my research, I believe the 6-speed TC we will be getting in the Polo and Vento (and perhaps all the group's VISION-IN - MQB-A0-IN based cars such as Taigun and Kamiq) will all use this AQ250 gearbox for the Auto transmissions versions to keep costs in check and reduce quality & reliability issues. This is not such great news. The gearbox is known to be a workhorse, but somewhat sluggish and not very quick on shifts. Below is from Rehan's review when this box was launched back in 2011: "The transmission tends to shift up fairly early, as it has probably been tuned to maximize fuel efficiency. If you just want to potter around town or slide along with rush hour traffic, the performance of the AT is par for the course. The Honda City's AT is quicker, and the DSGs are in a different league altogether" https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post2026807 (Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review) So, all in all, there is not a great lot to look forward to from this TC - unless VW pulls a rabbit out of its hat and presents us with an entirely different transmissions sourced from ZF or another other partner. Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 4th July 2020 at 21:02. Reason: Typo
	(9) Thanks

4th July 2020, 11:41	#278
SansGT BHPian Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Thane/Kolkata Posts: 185 Thanked: 494 Times	Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT The auto-box with Polo is set to come sometime in August. I would ideally like to wait and test the same out before making a decision. However, the TSI Limited edition is quite attractive. A HL+ variant with all the sporty looks with spoilers, decals and a blackened roof and that too at a lesser price point than the actual HL+ is too hard to resist. Hence, I am in quite a fix! Does anyone know for how long will the TSI edition be available and will waiting for the automatic be a risk as VW may stop selling this edition? On a separate note, I had a connect with one of the VW dealerships in Mumbai. They sent me the below price list. Strangely, this doesn't even mention the TSI edition. It is surely because the do not want the average customer know that such a VFM variant exists, and this enables them to push the HL+ variant (Rs. 8.02 Lakh). When I pushed for it, they did show the pricing of the TSI edition (Rs 7.89 Lakh). What was funny was when I asked them for offers. They simply said that the TSI edition is an offer price and showed the price difference of INR 13,300 with the HL+ trim as a dealership offer. I had a laugh and told him not to fool me as I have idea of the market. However, I felt bad that a normal customer would not know this and would treat the same as a valid offer. This is actually a type of cheating the customer and sad that the dealerships take the customers for a ride and in turn ruin the reputation of the brands. Last edited by vb-saan : 5th July 2020 at 10:00. Reason: You have mentioned the amount, removed the calculator screenshot. Thanks
	(2) Thanks

4th July 2020, 20:07	#284
GBX BHPian Join Date: May 2020 Location: Chennai Posts: 100 Thanked: 569 Times	Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT I don't think this discount is ever going off the table. They'll simply create a new special edition to take its place. I'd personally wait to see the AT model just to see what features you'd lose/gain over the MT. There's simply no clarity right now.
	(1) Thanks