[sassid]

There is absolutely no customer base (profitable one) to justify a global model in India, plenty of flops are testament to that, the best approach is to cut build quality and safety features, add a sunroof ,a large infotainment screen and ambient lighting. I bought a Sonet after 10 years with a Punto, traded in good handling, ride, braking and build quality for above mentioned features, did get better ground clearance, which is a body type advantage, not a feature.

I think this is a point that’s worth re-emphasising. Manufacturers in India are looking to sell to the “average” Indian customer - not the average European customer.

There’s nothing fundamentally wrong about this.

As an amorphous car buying group we Indian buyers are telling manufacturers that we want SUV’s (or cars with high ground clearance since we really can’t do anything about the roads with all the latest gadgets ) at the lowest possible cost.

Manufacturers hear this and plan their product accordingly. It’s only business sense. It’s why we have a slew of SUV’s, cross overs, c SUV’s and quasi SUV’s in every possible budget slice. These are not necessarily quality engineered but are definitely built to a price.

The discerning Indian buyer with deep pockets buys the premium marques - the enthusiast with shallower pockets buys what’s possible in the mass market.

This is where the Slavia is (together with the Kushaq, the Taigun and the Virtus) at the cross roads. Skoda as manufacturer is trying to meet the Indian customer half way. They going something like - “Ok the fundamentals are still solid, we’ve jazzed it up a bit, we’ve cut a few corners inside - we hope you will give us the volumes “

If as customers we say No! Say that we continue to go for the Seltos or Creta or City as we’ve been won’t to do - their next attempt will cut more corners and add more bling till they hit the sweet spot that gives them the volumes and the profits.

It is possible that in the future the Indian economy will increase the depth of the average Indian customers pockets and that as a customer group we start telling car manufacturers that we are now willing to pay more for things that matter - like safety and quality.

Till then I fear that it’s a race to the bottom for Skoda and things are likely to get a little more worse before they get a lot better.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

- Well there is a reason for that too.
- The challenges with Indian Suppliers are multifold (having worked in this sector, I can share some first hand feedback)
- With the ongoing semiconductor shortage, this is all the more apparent.

- Thanks for your insights I didn't know about the VW-SAIC partnership, now it makes sense.
- Agree we have some time o catch up, have experienced in some other lower value products where the shortfalls of the ones made here could be easily felt than the ones made in China.
Whatever we say, the gains of years of constant development and iterations will take time to match. Unless they provided quality they wouldn't be leading the world in manufacturing.
- This should be a wakeup call and hopefully leads to accelerated investment and development in this sector, its complex and will take time to mature.

Originally Posted by ron178

- I'm just saying I think it's unlikely that the two MQB-A0-IN versions will have structural differences for different markets.
- First of all, it's important to note that in Latin NCAP you can get away with a subpar frontal impact if you make up for it elsewhere.
- Zac Hollis seems to imply that they are not interested in sponsoring a test.

Thanks for your info, have been eagerly waiting for the next round of tests like you had mentioned in another thread, top stuff

- I think the same and primarily going by the narrative mentioned last year in some interview about the cars being built for India would also be exported to other countries.
- Didn't know that about Latin NCAP, not sure if its the right thing but maybe their accident data differs in the ratio of frontal vs other impacts.
- I got a feeling during the launch time that it will be GNCAP rated but if I concentrate on the words he spoke, your analysis is correct. IIRC he mentioned something about exceeding star ratings.

[mayukh42]

Originally Posted by sassid

If as customers we say No! Say that we continue to go for the Seltos or Creta or City as we’ve been won’t to do - their next attempt will cut more corners and add more bling till they hit the sweet spot that gives them the volumes and the profits.

If companies race each other to the bottom, the difference between their USPs dilute, and apart from price (and service experience, maybe) there is nothing else to distinguish one brand from another. Doesn't that impact the brand in the long run?

What is the need to become a mass-market manufacturer if units are not being sold at a loss (I assume)?

Originally Posted by sassid

It is possible that in the future the Indian economy will increase the depth of the average Indian customers pockets and that as a customer group we start telling car manufacturers that we are now willing to pay more for things that matter - like safety and quality.

Car prices have increased over the years, I think it might be more than the inflation rate. We cannot get a good sedan for around 10L anymore, which was just few years back. So average Indian customers are spending more on same category of car compared to a few years back, but we don't get the same quality anymore.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

the other two are City and Verna, both with iffy safety

Just putting it out there: I think the Slavia has huge competition with the City in the area of safety, more so than the Kushaq did with the Seltos. The City not only gets standard ESC and three-point belts, which the Slavia does, it also has side torso airbags as standard. What is a bit of a bummer is that while both OEMs have a similar number of products tested by Global NCAP in India, the Mobilio's performance was average. Stable structure and no red or brown body regions but it lost points for footwell intrusion and there seemed to be some issue with the driver's chest; it only scored three stars for adults (low by Honda expectations).

We lack data on the NCAP performance of recent Honda models in India. All I can say is that if the City's adult frontal impact performance turns out to be anything like that of the Indian-made Amaze exported to South Africa, then the Slavia would have serious competition. In a hypothetical ideal case where Honda sells the same car in India, the passenger side seatbelt reminder (which the African car didn't have) performs well, and it passes the UN side impact, Honda could not only score five stars but also outdo every product tested so far if Honda can present Global NCAP with valid knee mapping data. But, again, as I said with Volkswagen, we don't know whether they're selling us the same car structurally in India, and it would be wrong to assume that the City/Ballade would perform like the Amaze just because they are built on similar architecture.

Interestingly, though the Indian-made Accent tested by Latin NCAP did not perform well in the overall evaluation and did really badly in the frontal impact, the LHD car did have a stable structural performance of the passenger compartment and footwell in the frontal impact which is a good signal for developing better restraint systems, which in the case of the exported car were not good (it had only a driver's airbag so the passenger's chest indicated high risk of life-threatening injury). We don't know how the Indian car would perform in frontal impact, partly because RHD cars can have different structural performance, partly because we don't know how effective the Verna's passenger airbag is, and also because like with the others, we don't know whether the Indian car has 'intentional' differences in structure or restraint performance. However, the Verna does lag behind the other two rivals anyway in that its basic safety specification lacks ESC, and it does not offer three-point seatbelts for all seats.

Originally Posted by shancz

Didn't know that about Latin NCAP, not sure if its the right thing but maybe their accident data differs in the ratio of frontal vs other impacts.

No they just get more funding than SaferCarsforIndia, especially from Bloomberg. You can expect the GNCAP to follow a similar path in India in the coming years. They're already updating their protocols soon (after the publication I mentioned) to emulate approximately 2016 Latin NCAP (based on 2002 Euro NCAP). By 2026 you can expect protocols similar to what Latin NCAP is using now (based on the skeleton of 2009 Euro NCAP but heavily modified for the better).

[AutoConsultant]

I think the separate price announcement schedule is aimed to indicate that the 1L is in competition with the current sedans (City, Ciaz, Verna) and the 1.5L will sit above this segment. I just hope they don't mess up the pricing - the variant to variant premium in comparison to City cannot be more than 50-60k. Anything above that and the car will be a failure at launch according to me.

With the number of complaints surfacing for Kushaq and the fact that it is selling significantly lower than the City even in an SUV body type driven market shows that the customer still has some faith in the Honda brand.

Slavia has the potential to invigorate the sedan segment and I genuinely hope for its success.

[AKSwamy]

Visited the Skoda showroom to check out the Slavia today at the new Mysore road showroom in Bangalore having pre-booked it in the first couple of days,

Major takeaways:
1. Car looks nice, elegant and long!
2. Alloy wheels are not great on the style variant. Observed some exposed mechanics of disc brakes on the wheels
3. Roof liners are better than Kushaq but still not good enough for a 20L car
4. Interior light buttons look really cheap
5. IC display looks undone with only partial screen space useable

I was really keen and looking forward to check it out and came back disappointed with the quality of materials used inside. My 13L XUV300 has better roof liner, interior roof mounted handles, light buttons etc

SA mentioned the prices will be announced on 23rd with TD starting from 26th Feb. With some prodding he said the prices to be very similar to Kushaq or slightly higher

My current mindspace is unless the TD gives me that kick and wow feeling, I might drop my idea of buying this. It is unfortunate and heart wrenching to see manufactures like Skoda going down this cost cutting and cheap materials way.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by ron178

No they just get more funding than SaferCarsforIndia, especially from Bloomberg. You can expect the GNCAP to follow a similar path in India in the coming years.

Yes, remember reading about the change in funding and IMO for the better else it wasn't going to be effective.

For the rest of my questions I will first read through your dedicated thread which I have subscribed but haven't opened and will ask there

[sassid]

Originally Posted by mayukh42

If companies race each other to the bottom, the difference between their USPs dilute, and apart from price (and service experience, maybe) there is nothing else to distinguish one brand from another. Doesn't that impact the brand in the long run?

What is the need to become a mass-market manufacturer if units are not being sold at a loss (I assume)?



Car prices have increased over the years, I think it might be more than the inflation rate. We cannot get a good sedan for around 10L anymore, which was just few years back. So average Indian customers are spending more on same category of car compared to a few years back, but we don't get the same quality anymore.

These are both interesting points and worth reflecting on.

Let’s take the first point.

For Skoda, quite ironically it may be owing to their origin story in India. The Octavia - when it launched in India - was quite a revolutionary product. The car screamed quality, had all the bells and whistles and came at a compelling price. It was one of those rare cases of having your cake and eating it too - if you were a discerning customer and could pay, what was in those days, a princely sum.

Let’s contrast this with the example of Hyundai. With all due respect to the Santro and the accent, they could not hold a candle to the Octavia’s engineering chops and appeal. The car was build for the mass market and built to a price.

Both were successes in their own right.

Now let’s look at Hyundai - having started low on perceived quality and road manners - they have only one way to go, Up! The public which already bought their products for price competitiveness starts rewarding them further for cabin quality and improving if not job dropping road manners.

For Skoda - they started as a Virtuous player. Their products were high on perceived quality, observed road manners and in cabin comforts. They just don’t have the volumes. In their arc to meet the mass market requirements, they travel a negative arc and the public punishes them - as we are all doing in the Kushaq’s comments section

The need to become a mass market player - well that’s what most manufacturers aim to be if they are not called Rolls Royce or Bugatti! More units multiplied by profit per unit equals massive bonuses to the top bosses!

On the second point re Car prices. I think we are getting a good shake here! Staying one brand with Skoda and the Octavia. The Octavia in 2005 cost near 15 lakhs and was a great package with good road manners, a 100 bhp diesel and a built to last feel.

Today’s Octavia costs around 27 lakhs, is a great package with good road manners and has a stocking engine outputting 190 BHP albeit in petrol guise.

When we consider that cooking oil over the same period has gone from 60 to 120 rupees in the same period - it sort of puts the price in context!

I think in every budget segment we are getting way better deals as car buyers relative to what we were getting 10-15 years ago.

[headbanger]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

As mod Vid6639 rightly mentioned - "After driving the Kushaq seeing the complaints here, it is no longer on my radar as the Skoda no longer represents the same values as someone expects from it."

First Chevy, then Honda and Ford tried the same strategy. Water down the quality and fight with the likes of Maruti. All of them perished with this change in strategy and its sad to see Skoda also doing the same. Only time will tell whether they will get a different result. Nevertheless it's a sad change.

On the other hand, Indian manufacturers are pushing the quality levels which couldn't have been expected a decade back. Mahindra and Tata products have been better with every new iteration. Even Maruti has been moving forward. The current Gen swift is better than the predecessor on most counts.

I don't know if this holds true or not but somehow I personally feel that the Fords and VAGs of the world are not understanding the pulse of Indian customer. They aren't able to gauge the pace of changing customer preferences and the underlying demography. There may be an unconscious bias driving these changed strategies that leads to diluting the quality and brand proposition.

It's similar to someone just churning the numbers of equity scrips on Screener without studying the underlying business and then not being able to understand why his portfolio is in red.

[sid3091]

Originally Posted by sassid

For Skoda - they started as a Virtuous player. Their products were high on perceived quality, observed road manners and in cabin comforts. They just don’t have the volumes. In their arc to meet the mass market requirements, they travel a negative arc and the public punishes them - as we are all doing in the Kushaq’s comments section

The need to become a mass market player - well that’s what most manufacturers aim to be if they are not called Rolls Royce or Bugatti! More units multiplied by profit per unit equals massive bonuses to the top bosses!

I agree that cost-cutting was necessary, but I'm not sure they've struck a good compromise. I desperately want to buy a kushaq/taigun, but at 20l+ OTR they're missing one feature too many.

I think they need one or more the following
- Panoramic sunroof
- 360' Camera (a higher resolution one is absolutely necessary)
- Powered driver's seat
- Better implementation of their digital dash - Seltos half digital implementation is infinitely better than the crap you get in the Taigun.

Adding these should not be difficult for VAG, and it would be the cherry on top of an excellent mechanical package.

[Venkatesh]

Skoda Slavia on public roads, seen alongside Maruti Ciaz and Honda City.

https://youtu.be/TjSyJC_KFDw

[Venkatesh]

Zac Hollis unveils the Slavia at a dealership as the Car will be showcased at showrooms across India.















Link

[Cliff9091]

The Slavia from the day I saw it in camouflage I knew it would be looker, But recently happened to spot it at a Skoda dealership in the Crystal Blue shade and the color didn't look like anything in the pictures.

Just hoping Skoda has sorted out the issues with 1.0 TSI, as seen on the Kushaq there were a number of reliability woes with the motor. If the Skoda has all that figured for the Slavia they're surely going to light up the C-Sedan Segment, Maruti has to really worry with the ageing Ciaz on their hands.

[giri1.8]

I am all okay with lower quality of materials, but quality and reliability are different aspects. If it's going to be low on quality and reliability at the same time, then there is no hope of success.

Everyone is quoting Ford, but Renault has proved that company can change for the better by adopting to the local market. They are still lagging in the service department though.

Hope Skoda sorts everything out in an year, don't want to see another car maker exiting out market.

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by Venkatesh

Skoda Slavia price announcement, test-drives and Customer deliveries to commence with the respective launch dates.

Slavia 1.0-litre TSI on 28th February

Slavia 1.5-litre TSI on 3rd March

My guess is, the reason they want to do this is to avoid sticker shock from the 1.5 variants creating an impression in the market of a car that's overpriced. The pricing at the top of the announced range always stays in the minds of potential customers as a reference point to judge how expensive the car is.

By launching the 1.0 TSI variants at an earlier date, the price point that is going to stick is that of the 1.0 AT Style variant. I have a feeling that Skoda is going to go aggressive on the 1.0 prices probably topping out at less than 15 lacs for the 1.5 style AT variant. They then bring the 1.5 variants in the 15 to 18 lakh bracket once the Slavia is established in customer minds as a sub-15 lakh car.