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Old 30th December 2022, 15:13   #61
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

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Originally Posted by Venkatesh View Post
Hondaís Creta-rivalling midsize SUV coming by mid-2023

- Will share its underpinnings with the Amaze
I may be jumping the gun here, but this car seems doomed. A compact SUV(sub 4 metre) based on the Amaze can make sense but a Creta competitor based on the Amaze platform? I am not convinced.

We all know what happened to the BR-V vis-a-vis the 1st gen Creta. Yes, I am quite sure that Honda will spruce up the interiors as compared to the Amaze but applying make up can only help you so much. Indians look for value and when it comes to the 15-20L segment, many prospective customers if not all would be willing to spend an additional lakh or two over the Creta for a true Honda equivalent. A flop in this segment might be the final nail in the coffin for Honda India.
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Old 30th December 2022, 16:25   #62
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

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Originally Posted by AYP View Post
I may be jumping the gun here, but this car seems doomed. A compact SUV(sub 4 metre) based on the Amaze can make sense but a Creta competitor based on the Amaze platform? I am not convinced.

We all know what happened to the BR-V vis-a-vis the 1st gen Creta. Yes, I am quite sure that Honda will spruce up the interiors as compared to the Amaze but applying make up can only help you so much. Indians look for value and when it comes to the 15-20L segment, many prospective customers if not all would be willing to spend an additional lakh or two over the Creta for a true Honda equivalent. A flop in this segment might be the final nail in the coffin for Honda India.
Nothing new with the platform sharing - Hyundai/Kia are doing the same thing. The Creta is based on the same platform as the Venue and i20. Similarly, the Carens and Sonet are based on the same platform. Even the Indian Seltos is based on a different platform than the one sold in developed countries (SP2i vs SP2, if I remember correctly).

It all depends on how they differentiate the car. If they plan on sprucing up the Indonesian BR-V (which is a stretched + raised Amaze) and expecting it to compete with the Creta, thatís not going to work. However, if they design a completely new top hat with good interiors, the car could have a great chance.

Letís see what Honda does
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Old 30th December 2022, 17:24   #63
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

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Originally Posted by Aaron:) View Post
Nothing new with the platform sharing
I don't think anyone denied that. Atleast I didn't.

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Originally Posted by Aaron:) View Post
- Hyundai/Kia are doing the same thing. The Creta is based on the same platform as the Venue and i20.
The i20 is a segment above the i10. The i10 and the Brio(Amaze) belong to the same segment. If this car from Honda would have been based on the Jazz platform, I wouldn't have made my previous post.
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Originally Posted by Aaron:) View Post

Similarly, the Carens and Sonet are based on the same platform.
Not sure why Carens is being brought here. Carens is not Creta or Alcazar and does not compete with them directly. Yes, the prices overlap but Carens clearly feels half if not one segment below the Creta and the Seltos. Even the prices of the XL6 overlap with the Grand Vitara(and the erstwhile S-Cross). More often than not, only if someone prioritises the presence of 7 seats, will that person go for the Carens over the Creta since it is clearly a step down in terms of interior quality and opulence as compared to the Creta and the Seltos. Six airbags as a standard is a good step though(even with average GNCAP ratings).

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Originally Posted by Aaron:) View Post
Even the Indian Seltos is based on a different platform than the one sold in developed countries (SP2i vs SP2, if I remember correctly).
Yup, similar to VAGs MQB-A0 and MQB-A0-IN.


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Originally Posted by Aaron:) View Post
Let’s see what Honda does
Since it is already decided that this car is going to be based on Brio/Amaze platform(I really hope that this somehow turns out to not be true), I hope that they do an excellent job. More competition is always better for us consumers.

Last edited by AYP : 30th December 2022 at 17:45.
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Old 30th December 2022, 17:51   #64
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

Honda CRV failed mainly because of its pricing.
Now the times have changed and if CRV is re-introduced now, even with a more premium pricing, it would sell well.

What I don't understand is why Honda have to struggle so much and 'build up something from scratch' for our market, when vehicles like CRV, HRV, new WRV etc with some superb hybrid drivetrains are already available with them from other markets.

They continuously and untiringly manage to get something here that Indian market do not want, and keep those models away thats truly desired by this market.

Last edited by sarathlal : 30th December 2022 at 17:53.
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Old 30th December 2022, 18:41   #65
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venkatesh View Post
Hondaís Creta-rivalling midsize SUV coming by mid-2023



Source
I am of the opinion that this should be a Venue/Sonet rivaling SUV if Honda is serious about the Indian market.
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Old 30th December 2022, 19:52   #66
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

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Originally Posted by AYP View Post
I may be jumping the gun here, but this car seems doomed. A compact SUV(sub 4 metre) based on the Amaze can make sense but a Creta competitor based on the Amaze platform? I am not convinced.

We all know what happened to the BR-V vis-a-vis the 1st gen Creta. Yes, I am quite sure that Honda will spruce up the interiors as compared to the Amaze but applying make up can only help you so much. Indians look for value and when it comes to the 15-20L segment, many prospective customers if not all would be willing to spend an additional lakh or two over the Creta for a true Honda equivalent. A flop in this segment might be the final nail in the coffin for Honda India.
Like you realize, platform sharing isn't a crime and isn't the only factor that can make or break the sales charts. What is a plus here (in this rumour) is the expected 1.5L Petrol engine (same as BR-V, City) and not the 1.2L one currently doing duty in Amaze, Jazz or WRV.

Hope Honda learns from past experience and brings a car with some USP. BR-V had the USP of being a 7 seater with a CVT option but what broke it was the pricing (duhh!!) and the revamped Ertiga, not the Creta.

This new Honda should have competitive pricing and some other USP for it to sell.
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Old 30th December 2022, 19:58   #67
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

Well it is about time Honda brought a new model that too an SUV. The main thing they should nail is the pricing. Well the Amaze platform is a derivative of the City platform, so hope to see them improve their safety rating further (from 4 stars in 2019 for adult occupation) especially child protection rating (which was a dismal 1 star).

Honda should look forward towards localising their hybrid engines so that tey can price it competitively. If they sell at least 5000 units per month, it will be worth it. It may even benefit the three row SUV they are rumoured to develop. Also hope they bring their turbo engines to India soon.

Honda should look to improve their touchscreen infotainment which is one of their Achilles heels.

Fingers crossed for its success
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Old 30th December 2022, 20:13   #68
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilch View Post
Like you realize, platform sharing isn't a crime and isn't the only factor that can make or break the sales charts. What is a plus here (in this rumour) is the expected 1.5L Petrol engine (same as BR-V, City) and not the 1.2L one currently doing duty in Amaze, Jazz or WRV.

Hope Honda learns from past experience and brings a car with some USP. BR-V had the USP of being a 7 seater with a CVT option but what broke it was the pricing (duhh!!) and the revamped Ertiga, not the Creta.

This new Honda should have competitive pricing and some other USP for it to sell.
Honda has done a poor job in the past when they have tried to use an inferior platform(comparatively) and came up with products which had a lot of cost cutting and were priced not so attractively. Yes, there were some positives too, but the negatives outweighted them and thus, my apprehension.

Would love to be proven wrong this time.

Last edited by AYP : 30th December 2022 at 20:14.
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Old 30th December 2022, 21:04   #69
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron:) View Post
Nothing new with the platform sharing - Hyundai/Kia are doing the same thing. The Creta is based on the same platform as the Venue and i20. Similarly, the Carens and Sonet are based on the same platform. Even the Indian Seltos is based on a different platform than the one sold in developed countries (SP2i vs SP2, if I remember correctly).

It all depends on how they differentiate the car. If they plan on sprucing up the Indonesian BR-V (which is a stretched + raised Amaze) and expecting it to compete with the Creta, that’s not going to work. However, if they design a completely new top hat with good interiors, the car could have a great chance.

Let’s see what Honda does
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilch View Post
Like you realize, platform sharing isn't a crime and isn't the only factor that can make or break the sales charts. What is a plus here (in this rumour) is the expected 1.5L Petrol engine (same as BR-V, City) and not the 1.2L one currently doing duty in Amaze, Jazz or WRV.

Hope Honda learns from past experience and brings a car with some USP. BR-V had the USP of being a 7 seater with a CVT option but what broke it was the pricing (duhh!!) and the revamped Ertiga, not the Creta.

This new Honda should have competitive pricing and some other USP for it to sell.
No one is against platform sharing. Neither anyone is against Honda.
All it matters is what platform and what is the product positioning.

The second generation Amaze in India is/was based on the 6th gen City. Amaze already had the 1.5 diesel. So it's nothing new to put in a 1.5L powertrain in that platform. The concern here is not about the powertrain.

The question here is about the space, size and driving dynamics. Honda is not Maruti/Hyundai/Tata/M&M to sell anything that they launch in the market. Currently Honda in India is almost a one car/model brand (City) and at the verge of winding up. So they cannot take chances here by launching something mediocre. All it matters is if they are investing for an India (and its neighbours) specific platform/model, then let them be aware and make sure that they hit the nail on the head (not even closest possible).

A 15L to 25L model (Creta rival) to be based on the old gen city in this situation when the facelifts of competitors are lined up (Creta, Seltos, Astor, etc) doesn't sound/feel exciting enough. The absolute need of the hour are more options as a consumer. And I always wish and want Honda (one of the best engine manufacturing companies in the world) to be a part of this game.

Now fingers crossed. Hope Honda gives something magical.

Last edited by Livnletcarsliv : 30th December 2022 at 21:10.
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Old 30th December 2022, 21:56   #70
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

Difference between some of the examples quoted above and Honda is that they take platform sharing to the extreme, including common interiors and touchpoints. No one ever complained that the i20, Venue and Creta had the same interiors - but BRV, Mobilio, Amaze - all had the same Brio dashboard.

In fact, this continues true in 2023 as well.

Be it the newly revealed WR-V or the new Indonesian BR-V - both cars have the exact same dashboard as the Indian Amaze, in all black trim.

All new BR-V:
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All new WR-V:

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Second generation Amaze

Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate-2018hondaamaze01.jpeg

Honda better rework the interior for India. The Amaze cabin and featureset hardly matches upto direct rivals like the Suzuki DZire! Having the same interior in a Creta/Seltos (or even Sonet/Nexon) rival would be a dead on arrival disaster.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 30th December 2022 at 21:58.
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Old 31st December 2022, 00:27   #71
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Difference between some of the examples quoted above and Honda is that they take platform sharing to the extreme, including common interiors and touchpoints. No one ever complained that the i20, Venue and Creta had the same interiors - but BRV, Mobilio, Amaze - all had the same Brio dashboard.

In fact, this continues true in 2023 as well. : Frustrating
If Honda India is repeating the nonsense, then this model will be the final nail on its already packed coffin. If Honda wish to survive in India, then this product should resemble something like their latest US line up, that's the Honda we want in India, not the ASEAN trash.
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Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate-jdp_2023-honda-hrv-exl-interior-dashboard_1.jpg  

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Old 31st December 2022, 00:47   #72
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

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Originally Posted by ergon_9700 View Post
so hope to see them improve their safety rating further (from 4 stars in 2019 for adult occupation) especially child protection rating (which was a dismal 1 star).
Seeing how the new Amaze-based BR-V has done in ASEAN NCAP I should hope for something similar from this new SUV too. Not to mention the Amaze itself would have scored 5 GNCAP stars at the time had it not been tested for Africa where it did not have a passenger-side seatbelt reminder, disqualifying it from 5 stars.

Child protection should be easy to improve by selecting rearward-facing restraints for both dummies and if the Jazz's GNCAP test is any indication, Honda probably will.

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Originally Posted by TorqueIndia View Post
then this product should resemble something like their latest US line up
Interestingly, the Autocar article says the infotainment system will be the one from the 2023 CR-V and Accord. I find it hard to believe but if it is true that's great news.

I see four likely combinations:
Amaze interior + new BR-V/WR-V infotainment = flop
City/HR-V-ish interior + City/ASEAN HR-V infotainment = average (and what I expect)
City/HR-V interior + European HR-V e:HEV infotainment = good
All-new interior + 2023 CR-V/Accord infotainment = good (Autocar's scoop)
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Old 31st December 2022, 02:10   #73
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Difference between some of the examples quoted above and Honda is that they take platform sharing to the extreme, including common interiors and touchpoints. No one ever complained that the i20, Venue and Creta had the same interiors - but BRV, Mobilio, Amaze - all had the same Brio dashboard.

In fact, this continues true in 2023 as well.

Be it the newly revealed WR-V or the new Indonesian BR-V - both cars have the exact same
Honda better rework the interior for India. The Amaze cabin and featureset hardly matches upto direct rivals like the Suzuki DZire! Having the same interior in a Creta/Seltos (or even Sonet/Nexon) rival would be a dead on arrival disaster.
Ugh, that looks like an interior from 2013, complete with a 3rd party screen. How can they expect that to sell in 2023 when even our homegrown company's cars' interiors look years ahead.
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Old 31st December 2022, 11:26   #74
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

It's crazy how the whole 10-20 lacks SUV segment is defined and utmost competitory given by only 1 car, the Hyundai Creta (Kia Seltos to some extent as well). Honda needs to run it's horses back at the HQ pretty fast as their sedan market pieces haven't been doing much of a proper bread-earner for them.

They need to pick a method or two from the Koreans as they have been pretty much successful with every new launch they've had with them. The modernity, striking nature and the stuff that pulls customers like big touchscreens and panoramic sunroofs and plethora of features need to be introduced with new upcoming products otherwise it's not much of a deal that Honda starts pulling off it's operations in India.
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Old 31st December 2022, 13:08   #75
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

I am a bit excited, but let's hold on to the comments before Honda launches the car. Till they actually launch it, I won't think much about the car or how it will do in the sales charts.

Why are we speculating about how the car will be; now? Let's wait and watch, the future will reveal itself!
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