[abaliga]

Originally Posted by ergon_9700

True. With a 2.0 petrol you can have an effortless drive.

But Honda is using a 1.5 turbo petrol in the CR-V in the US. Which I heard is alright. So, with advantage of a light engine and decent output for it (in Tata's engine it is producing 170hp(same as the diesel) and 280Nm of torque), it can give a better power to weight ratio which makes it give a good driving experience.

It's possible, but I don't have much hopes considering the below

- Honda Engines cannot be compared to Tata Petrol, Tata Petrols have been average at best in terms of performance
- Honda CRV is a 5 seater and the 1.5 Turbo is also an average performer
- Safari being heavier by around 200 kgs compared to the latest CRV, it will also need to carry more passengers at times

Harrier/Safari platforms have an air of indestructible ride and build, but the finesse is missing, It is largely sorted out with multiple updates and I am sure the facelift will be even better, I hope the 1.5 Turbo is good enough too, but the petrol version will be at a disadvantage when compared to the XUV7OO, I really hope it is not a deal breaker as the Diesel vehicle sales are dwindling by the day

[UD17]

I again witnessed the parked safari today morning. Asked driver if he can open the hood which he did, few things to notice:

- Air intake placement seems risky, it was inclining towards airlifter. There could be chance of water ingress. I could not anything for trapping the water downstream

- Air Intake Snorkel elements did have most of the screw loose (or lost), may be they might have removed during some work but forgot to tighten the screws.

- Accessing anything in engine bay area= remove complete air intake system. Overall, very tight packaging of the engine bay.

- The car was parked with front wheel turned fully (guessing) towards right direction. I could see small gap between tyres and wheel arch. Again Wheel arch beading element was loose

[fusionbang]

Originally Posted by UD17

- Air intake placement seems risky, it was inclining towards airlifter. There could be chance of water ingress. I could not anything for trapping the water downstream

I think this is how it is in current cars and I don't think it has posed any problems so far. Also, I don't expect Tata to change any design elements inside the engine bay for this facelift.

Originally Posted by UD17

- The car was parked with front wheel turned fully (guessing) towards right direction. I could see small gap between tyres and wheel arch. Again Wheel arch beading element was loose

It might be loosened or removed to adjust the headlight assembly, since they are testing the new LED headlamp Units. But yes, it is a big task in itself to change any bulb in the Harrier/Safari. At least with LED there will be no tweaking of these bulbs.

[anil_rnair]

Originally Posted by abaliga

Wish Tata had plonked a nice 2.0 litre Petrol Turbo in this, 1.5 litre petrol planned for this is too small for the size of the vehicle where it will require to ferry 7 people often.

As per the interview with Mohan Savarkar, these engines run on Miller cycle. Miller cycle engines are supposed to have far better fuel efficiency compared to Otto cycle engines. Usually Miller cycle engines have lower performance compared to Otto Cycle Engines of equivalent size. Need to see how Tata managed 170PS with 1.5L Miller cycle.

I think if Tata is successful with these engines, then, it might be case study for the whole auto industry. There are only 2 or 3 commercially successful Miller cycle engines - Toyota Prius engine (though they prefer to call it as Atkinson cycle) and Mazda 2.3L.

The other point to note is the use of Turbocharger. Atkinson or Miller cycle engines prefer Supercharger or Electric air compressors and not Turbochargers. Not sure how Tata is planning to use Turbochargers.

Overall, I would say this engine is a risky affair for the Tatas and a brave move as well. They are moving away from the tried and tested engine formulas. Too many new variables here - Miller cycle, Turbochargers, GDi, 1.5L etc.. They are venturing into a terrain where established players prefer to stay away from.

Link to the interview is below. Please refer to time 1.50 second of the interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGwrZkGThjA

[Benoit]

Originally Posted by anil_rnair

Overall, I would say this engine is a risky affair for the Tatas and a brave move as well. They are moving away from the tried and tested engine formulas. Too many new variables here - Miller cycle, Turbochargers, GDi, 1.5L etc.. They are venturing into a terrain where established players prefer to stay away from.

Sounds very ambitious. All of this, and they didn't want to use their existing 2.2L AVL engine, and planned to use the Fiat 2.0 MJD. I wouldn't trust Tata with a new technology. I think, Tata should stick with the tried and test technology, and improve on reliability rather. If they had done this, i wouldn't be concerned about the venture. I only hope they improve the safety aspect, and get it certified by GNCAP. Safety is their strength, they should play by it.

[ergon_9700]

Originally Posted by anil_rnair

As per the interview with Mohan Savarkar, these engines run on Miller cycle. Miller cycle engines are supposed to have far better fuel efficiency compared to Otto cycle engines. Usually Miller cycle engines have lower performance compared to Otto Cycle Engines of equivalent size. Need to see how Tata managed 170PS with 1.5L Miller cycle.

First things first, Tata is obviously venturing into new territory here in terms of technologies. Hope they are able to crack it soon and run these engines reliably.

Second their recent new tech, the DCA, is doing alright so far in terms of reliability no issues heard in this forum so far.

Miller cycle can be used for force induction like Supercharging or turbo-charging while Atkinson Cycle is preferred for Nat-Asp engines.


Also this tech that Tata is trying for their new engines has been done by Volkswagen with their 1.5 TSI present in the MQB-A0 IN cars. The 1.5 TSI had Miller cycle, Variable Geometry Turbo and GDI. Of course it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, but the tech is already been combined and is ready. It has been noticed that the 1.5 TSI is more efficient than 1.0 TSI. (Not sure what tech the 1.0 TSI has. If any one knows please let me know)

Finally I wish Tata brings Mild-hybrid tech to boost efficiency and performance. They can get their workings and know how from JLR.

Originally Posted by Benoit

Sounds very ambitious. All of this, and they didn't want to use their existing 2.2L AVL engine, and planned to use the Fiat 2.0 MJD. I wouldn't trust Tata with a new technology. I think, Tata should stick with the tried and test technology, and improve on reliability rather. If they had done this, i wouldn't be concerned about the venture. I only hope they improve the safety aspect, and get it certified by GNCAP. Safety is their strength, they should play by it.

Yes, it was stupid of then to remove that excellent 2.2L engine and go with the 2.0 MJD.

Well I too hope they do good with the GNCAP scores of all their cars.

Well even manufacturers with unreliability have to attempt something new once in a while. But the tech they are trying has been done by VW in their 1.5 TSI.

Even then I hope they do rigorous testing and make sure they are reliable.

[ashutoshb]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Fair enough, although I think TaMo has missed the AWD bus for ICE cars big time & I don't see them trying to jump on it after it has already left the platform.

Shailesh Chandra:

No AWD on the ICE Harrier / Safari. Maybe on the EV variant.

We know what halo effect an AWD have on an SUV, but we chose to spend our money on other things such as ADAS, regulations, etc.

Question on AWD / 4WD starts at 12:50

Source:

https://youtu.be/YN_NgAEO3Ho

[RaghuVis]

Originally Posted by ashutoshb

We know what halo effect an AWD have on an SUV, but we chose to spend our money on other things such as ADAS, regulations, etc.

What regulation is he talking about? Is Harrier finally going to get a better safety rating?

[ashutoshb]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

What regulation is he talking about? Is Harrier finally going to get a better safety rating?

I can only assume, he is talking about the engines.

[AntPaul]

Originally Posted by anil_rnair

As per the interview with Mohan Savarkar, these engines run on Miller cycle. Miller cycle engines are supposed to have far better fuel efficiency compared to Otto cycle engines.

Link to the interview is below. Please refer to time 1.50 second of the interview.
https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=YGwrZkGThjA

I believe this video is quite old, from the autoexpo. I was curious too when I saw it for the first time. But having spend some time doing arm chair research, my understanding is Miller's cycle/atkinson cycle/otto cycles are all a function of valve timings. A forced induction atkinson cycle engine is called millers cycle. Since most cars have variable valve timing, wouldn't it be fairly simple to achieve both millers and otto cycle using valve timing? I believe the complexity is in achieving meaningful results.

[motographer]

Originally Posted by gopi_rm

Finally Tata is updating the steering wheel (hopefully the hornpad too) with new switch layout and also electronic gear shifter is coming.

I hope Tata updates the complete dash layout and centre console with proper ergonomics.

I am wondering why this steering is not the same as that of the one seen in spyshots of upcoming Safari facelift.

[TusharK]

Tata Harrier facelift with updated interiors spied

Like most SUVs in Tata's line-up, the Tata Harrier is also due to get a major makeover. The Harrier and the Safari will receive similar updates as the recent spy images have confirmed.



A Harrier test mule was recently spotted featuring a new design steering wheel similar to the Sierra EV Concept. The SUV gets a redesigned dashboard with a large touchscreen infotainment system in the centre. It is also likely to get an all-new centre console with haptic switches and ADAS.



On the outside, the Harrier will get a redesigned grille flanked by LED daytime running lights, while the rear is likely to feature slimmer LED tail lights with an LED light bar. SUV will also get new design 5-spoke alloy wheels.



The updated Harrier is expected to be offered with the same 2.0-litre diesel engine as before. This unit puts out 168 BHP and 350 Nm and comes paired with either a 6-speed manual or automatic transmission. Tata is also working on a new 1.5-litre 4-cylinder turbo-petrol engine for the Harrier and Safari.

Source: Rushlane

Link to Team-BHP News

[shantanumishra]

Originally Posted by TusharK

Tata Harrier facelift with updated interiors spied

Like most SUVs in Tata's line-up, the Tata Harrier is also due to get a major makeover. The Harrier and the Safari will receive similar updates as the recent spy images have confirmed.

Link to Team-BHP News

Do we know if Tata can actually launch this around Oct. I mean their history of product launches are often delayed,

[Osteon206]

We are looking at purchasing a second car. My Taigun will then be used to only Chauffeur around my in-laws. We had zeroed in on The Hyundai Alcazar (to use as a 5 seater with a massive boot) because of not liking the Creta design. But I met a fellow bhpian over the weekend who insisted that I TD the Scorpio N and the Harrier.

Did a TD of the Harrier AT yesterday, could not TD the Scorpio N since the dealership here is closed on Sundays. But after looking at the Red Dark in person both my wife and me just want to get the Harrier AT red dark XZA+. But after seeing this article, I’m now confused whether to book the car later this week or to wait till more news of this emerges.

Our SA is confident that no more new launches will happen this year and that the recent facelift and Red dark were all that were planned.

[AtheK]

A Petrol version is what is rumoured to launch this year with a facelift. Even diesel will get a few updates, that said red edition is pretty loaded in itself. You can go for it as the new car even if it comes will not launch before Diwali and will again see a bump in price. The new car also will probably start with limited colors and might not have a limited edition like dark red launched for later part of life cycle.